[Archived] Parents Warn Your Kids!

[blue phil]

Nationalism that you espouse drove europe to war twice with calamatous results (indeed the framework for peace has large been driven by a liberal concilliatory framework that you despise).

Fair enough, it might have gone too far now but the socio-liberal ideal gave most people a vote, an education, a health service, peace, prosperity in parts. Give it its due.

Good post Joey , but you seem to be falling into the trap that ALL nationalism is akin to nazism , and that the only way to defeat this evil nationalism is to embrace liberalism .

But who defeated Hitler's brand of nationalism , and why did they ? The average British Tommy fought for his way of life , his traditions , and , yes, his nation . Could he , in his wildest dreams , have envisaged a land where whole towns would resemble the sub continent more than the England he knew . What would an Accy Pal have made of demographic compexion of Blackburn and the crime and filth that its citizens have to endure ?

What you accept as "liberalism" today is an absolute perversion of the enlightened views of a century ago that ushered in the age of universal suffrage . The justice system is an insult to the very word justice ; family values have been crushed with opponents condemned as old fashioned ; whole communities destroyed to make way for immigrants (or twenty years ago as a means of getting rid of unions) ; and Christianity , the bed rock of our civilisation , deliberately eroded by pitiful educational standards to such an extent that even priests and vicars embrace the new values ( such as homosexuality ) rather than take on the anti-cultural pygmies who hold sway over all the main parties .

If the "liberals" of the 3 parties ever do lose power - and they will at some point - then you're right , the backlash will be severe . Extreme and perverse policies need extreme solutions.

[colin]

as for comparing these scum to pickpockets hang on col jeeez?

Abbey,

No, I am not comparing the two. I was comparing the comparative punishments and the comment that if you execute either they will not be repeat offenders.

This is true enough, but I thinks it shows up the arguement for the "let's kill them all" as a rather simplistic answer.

Colin

[thenodrog]

On the other hand a draconian regieme of punishment and prejuidice that BP and TND are after is a bit frightening.

Exactly!

It's not intended so much a punishment as a deterrent. Capital punishment is abhorrent but it's existence is necessary. Punishment only comes when all else fails. Capiche? Kinell JBN I thought you'd never get there, but I see there is a glimmer of hope.

[joey_big_nose]

On the other hand a draconian regieme of punishment and prejuidice that BP and TND are after is a bit frightening.

Exactly!

It's not intended so much a punishment as a deterrent. Capital punishment is abhorrent but it's existence is necessary. Punishment only comes when all else fails. Capiche? Kinell JBN I thought you'd never get there, but I see there is a glimmer of hope.

Okay my mistake, i didnt phrase it very well.

What I meant to say was people who hold views like yourself and convey them in your manner exude menace. Executing, chopping thumbs off, expanding the powers of the police, expanding the powers of the army, kill all the peadophiles, kick out the muslims, God Save The Queen. I suppose it is all only meant in the nicest, most socially conscious way, and you wouldn't kill a fly unless it had been convicted by twelve of its peers who acted fully independently through the use of their conscience, but it still remains terryfying.

But hell, the buses will run on time.....

[colin]

Colin , you've reached an all time low in utter stupidity in your posting history ; you now seem to regard child molesting as somehow being in the same criminal category as pickpocketing ! Say it aint so .......

Phil,

Before you start hurling abuse about "stupidity" I suggest you read my post again. You may like to pay special attention to the phrase I used:

"BTW I am not trying to belittle the offence."

I should explain that this referred to paedophilia, and not pickpocketing. I apologise in case my post was not clear enough and you were confused.

I hope this helps.

[Eddie]

Though the length of time that most of these men or women are in prison for is probably not sufficient to cure their illness, I don't think the crimes they commit are worthy of being killed, which I am never for, or never being released. What they often do is horrific and impossible to justify, our society functions in such a way that most criminals are punished "lightly" for what they do and then released back into society where they are then given a second chance.

Does this backfire? Of course, like any judicial system will. This probably backfires more than any other because the it is leniant. However, I would prefer to have a system like this, one that is maybe so naive that it thinks that people can change and become better, than one that locks them up and throws away the key.

I'm sure a middle ground does exist, but those of you calling for such harsh measures aren't really trying to improve the system. You are protecting society, but not making it better.

[ABBEY]

hang this @#/?

how many more "illnesses" does it take to make people realise that the only cure for these evil scum is to hang them by there ###### until this filth is dead.

WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO PAY OOR TAXES TOWARDS LETTING THISE FILTHYSCUM HAVE A LIFE OF TABLE TENNISS POOL AND THREE SQUARE MEALS A DAY.

IT WOULD TAKE 2/3 HANGINGS AT MOST TO MAKE THIS FILTH STOP AND THINK......ILLNESS MY ARSE ITS PERVASION SIMPLE AS.

[thenodrog]

You are protecting society, but not making it better.

Well thats not bad for starters is it?

[Rovermatt]

hang this @#/?

how many more "illnesses" does it take to make people realise that the only cure for these evil scum is to hang them by there ###### until this filth is dead.

WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO PAY OOR TAXES TOWARDS LETTING THISE FILTHYSCUM HAVE A LIFE OF TABLE TENNISS POOL AND THREE SQUARE MEALS A DAY.

IT WOULD TAKE 2/3 HANGINGS AT MOST TO MAKE THIS FILTH STOP AND THINK......ILLNESS MY ARSE ITS PERVASION SIMPLE AS.

So child abusers are doing it because they know they'll win either way?

They're doing it because they like doing it. Hang the consequences (excuse the pun)

[ABBEY]

word twisting there matt ,i never said they did it because they win either way ,what I meant was once they are inside they get 3 meals a day ,segrated granted but they get to play pool table tennis etc.

WHY SHOULD MY F TAXES PAY FOR ALL THIS ,HANG EM OR PUT THEM IN WITH THE REST OF THE PRISONORS .

[Rovermatt]

Do your taxes not pay for the other prisoners too?

[ABBEY]

the other prisnors are being "reformed" and punished but the sickos dont deserve any of that for what they do.dont mind taxes going on ordinary prisonors but keeping the sickos on our earth is AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[Rovermatt]

Do you include all serious offenders in this category? Or is it just those who you've been alerted to through the tabloids?

Edited November 27, 2004 by Rovermatt

[SouthAussieRover]

If they were to swing after the first time they did it then they wouldn't become a repeat offender.

Would save a few bob too.

Edited November 28, 2004 by SouthAussieRover

[Eddie]

You are protecting society, but not making it better.

Well thats not bad for starters is it?

In itself no, of course that is what the judicial system and the police have to do, but it is not all they have to do. Part of their job is to be able to help those who commit the crime, not help in the sense of benefits or rewards, but in helping them overcome their problems. Except in very rare instances, I do believe that most criminals are a victim themselves of either their circumstances or an illness. Does this make their crimes any better or worse? No, but what it does mean is that they should be helped so that they won't do it again and so that they can re-enter society.

The judicial system has to work to both prevent crime, punish it, and then make it so that those who committ will not do so again if they are released. This is what the "perfect" system would do, we aren't there, and all of those sections will have it's faults and be the source of problems, especially the first and second.

I do think that those who are doing these sorts of crimes are sick individuals, and most probably don't serve enough time in prison, but to say they deserved to be put to death is a bit extreme don't you think? We don't do that to mass murderers, why should this be considered that much worse? I thought we had left the world of an eye for an eye behind in this section of the world, but I guess some of you would like it back.

[Eddie]

I'll seperate this so that it is not all seen as one big blur and attacked as one.

Think some of you may be interested in this-

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom."

-Dwight D Eisenhower

Maybe we sometimes forget how nice it is in our lives to have freedom? No matter how many games of ping pong and pool we may be able to play, I'm sure a nice walk in the park or a trip to the pub is what they dream of every night.

"Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better."

-Alber Camus

Unless of course you are an existentialist, but even then prison seems to be the thing that would fit the bill.

[ABBEY]

Do you include all serious offenders in this category? Or is it just those who you've been alerted to through the tabloids?

whats the tabloids got to do with anything?wouldn't class my mates grandad as being in the tabloids so to suggest im being media lead is horseshit.

Depends on what you class serious ,but i would hang all child killers, child fiddlers and rapists.etc.

[thenodrog]

Maybe we sometimes forget how nice it is in our lives to have freedom? ............I'm sure a nice walk in the park or a trip to the pub is what they dream of every night.

But thats exactly the issue! How can you be so myopic Eddie? My wife and kids would not dare to walk through Corporation Park or Billinge Woods at night! No right thinking local person would ever consider it for a moment. I would think that even the police will not venture there alone ffs!

Its wrong that it should be so and I suggest that the main reason is because of soft headed, do good theorists like yourself who cannot see the wood for the trees. (excuse that pun too.)

Edited November 28, 2004 by thenodrog

[thenodrog]

You are protecting society, but not making it better.

Well thats not bad for starters is it?

In itself no, of course that is what the judicial system and the police have to do, but it is not all they have to do. Part of their job is to be able to help those who commit the crime, not help in the sense of benefits or rewards, but in helping them overcome their problems. Except in very rare instances, I do believe that most criminals are a victim themselves of either their circumstances or an illness. Does this make their crimes any better or worse? No, but what it does mean is that they should be helped so that they won't do it again and so that they can re-enter society.

The judicial system has to work to both prevent crime, punish it, and then make it so that those who committ will not do so again if they are released. This is what the "perfect" system would do, we aren't there, and all of those sections will have it's faults and be the source of problems, especially the first and second.

I do think that those who are doing these sorts of crimes are sick individuals, and most probably don't serve enough time in prison, but to say they deserved to be put to death is a bit extreme don't you think? We don't do that to mass murderers, why should this be considered that much worse? I thought we had left the world of an eye for an eye behind in this section of the world, but I guess some of you would like it back.

Think Leopards and spots and do yourself a favour.

Should the european courts overule ours in a few short years time would you allow Peter Sutcliffe or Ian Huntley to give your wife daughter a lift home?

[Rovermatt]

Do you include all serious offenders in this category? Or is it just those who you've been alerted to through the tabloids?

whats the tabloids got to do with anything?wouldn't class my mates grandad as being in the tabloids so to suggest im being media lead is horseshit.

Depends on what you class serious ,but i would hang all child killers, child fiddlers and rapists.etc.

What about murderers? They kill people too.

[SouthAussieRover]

Depends on the nature of the murder.

If its cold blooded hang them too.

[thenodrog]

hear hear Don.

[Eddie]

What if you are wronlgy convicted? What happens then? What will you say about a judicial system that puts someone to death simply because their lawyer wasn't good enough. There was a case in Texas I read about not so long ago where 7 men were put on death row for the same offence committed by a single man...wonderful isn't it?

I'm not saying the men shouldn't recieve punishment for what they do, but you are all much too extreme. No I wouldn't want my wife and daughter being given a lift by them, but that doesn't mean I think they should all be hanged.

Would you all like to tell me the statistics of crime in countries that do still have the death penalty? I think you will find, as I have researched it, that they are no different, so your stance on the subject has no support. Something has to be done, and these men may well be released too soon, but you do go too far.

[SouthAussieRover]

Eddie, all I can say is, when the day comes that DNA evidence proves absolutely beyond doubt that certain types of murderers are guilty,the ultimate penalty should be death.

Edited November 28, 2004 by SouthAussieRover

[Eddie]

Well we have to disagree on that, I don't think the death penalty is the proper punishment and I think it is actually ducking punishment. I know I would rather be killed than face a life confined to a single building with no female contact where I had to wear the same things and had very few choices. If they are going to be let off early and that is your problem, then push for the courts to make sure they stay in prison for the proper length of time, if you think the death penalty is what is actually needed, then there's no need to discuss this, as I'm afraid you came a century too late.