[Archived] Parents Warn Your Kids!

[Eddie]

You just don't let them out ever again, Phil! Can't do much harm then!

Seems quite simple to me. Just because sentences currently are too lenient doesn't mean we should progress right to teh other end of teh scale and start marching people up Tyburn Hill.

I know some will disagree though!

Totally with you on that. I too think that at times the criminal is released to early, but that doesn't mean kill him, just means take a look at the judicial system and make sure people get the proper sentence.

[Roaming Rover]

Life imprisonment is fine in principal. But after reading the paper yesterday and seeing three or four stories were the criminals should get life, I wonder where we are going to keep them all

[Al]

Killing in cold blood is always barbaric. It makes the state as bad as the criminal.

What is your opinion of the ones who were murdered by the state and later found to be innocent. Bit difficult to release them and give them compensation isn't it?

Firstly , the state is never as bad as the criminal IF the latter is given a fair trial . The victim of a murderer is NEVER given a trial by his peers . To confuse the two and brand them the same is simply ridiculous and an insult to real victims of crime .

Your second point has more validity . Quite simply , though , such mistakes are bound to happen . Any legal system has to have the strength and cvourage to accept that this will always be the case and to attempt to minimise such cases .

A better way of looking it - and a more logical one - is to balance the tragedy of an innocent man hanging , with the far greater number of innocents who die at the hands of those who kill again after being released for a similar crime . This is especially the case with sex offenders who are notorious for re-offending .

To put it bluntly , more innocents would live if execution were introduced . Not a nice choice but then again the law has to be dispassionate if it is to work.

Tell that to the families of the innocents who have been hung Phil and imagine the torture of being told when you are going to be killed when you have done nothing wrong - barbaric.

If life meant life real murderers could not kill again.

Murder by society is unnecessary and usually advocated by persons who feel a need for revenge. An unpleasant but not unnatural feeling, however not one that should be supported by the state.

[thenodrog]

What's your point?

Has your dementia kicked in again?

10% of people in the UK own a gun? Are you sure?

Seemed a bit excessive to me too, but here's the 'Independent' article by Stephen Castle that I got the figures from Bucky. (God only knows what 'Operation Black Vote' is though.)

http://www.obv.org.uk/europe/eu20030702a.htm

btw you seem a bit grumpy.......... is your new skoo' a bit tougher than you anticipated or are you due to start your period soon?

[blue phil]

Murder by society is unnecessary and usually advocated by persons who feel a need for revenge. An unpleasant but not unnatural feeling, however not one that should be supported by the state.

So you'd outlaw war as well on that logic . It seems a bit strange that some ( not saying you , mind ) accept the need to for warfare , where "real" innocents die in their thousands , and yet the same people jump up and down when execution of the worst scum in society is advocated .

Tony Blair comes to mind , here . At least Bush is consistent ...

[BuckyRover]

It is very easy to manipulate figures like that

10 in 100 could mean that in every 100 people, 1 person has 10 guns.

It's not accurate at all, there is no way that one in 10 people in this country have a firearm

R.e. Stress - Yes, I am quite stressed at the moment. It will all be worth it next year, when Im living in my city centre pad (albeit rented ) with my flash car (think i'll buy an Audi TT). Not bad for a 21yr old

[thenodrog]

with my flash car (think i'll buy an Audi TT).

buy Bucky? as in pay for outright?

Anyway Jim'll be gunning for you if you get an Audi.

[Rovermatt]

with my flash car (think i'll buy an Audi TT). Not bad for a 21yr old

Crap. Woman's car.

[BuckyRover]

Im trying to decide between an Audi TT and a Mazda RX8

I doubt I would be able to get insurance on either really

[Al]

Murder by society is unnecessary and usually advocated by persons who feel a need for revenge. An unpleasant but not unnatural feeling, however not one that should be supported by the state.

So you'd outlaw war as well on that logic . It seems a bit strange that some ( not saying you , mind ) accept the need to for warfare , where "real" innocents die in their thousands , and yet the same people jump up and down when execution of the worst scum in society is advocated .

Tony Blair comes to mind , here . At least Bush is consistent ...

Already mentioned war earlier Phil.

Killing then is necessary but it is rarely in cold blood, more of a kill or be killed.

Targets are then terrorists or soldiers who know the risks when they sign up even then I draw the line at cold blooded excecution. The Geneva convention was drawn up to prevent that sort of thing.

There is a world of difference between death in a war than putting a person (particularly an innocent one) in a cell and telling him/her what day and what time they are going to be killed. You are well aware of the difference but are unwilling to admit it for fear of losing an argument.

Neither of us can win because there is a fundemental difference in morality between us.

I do not criticise your morals because you obviously are sincere about them but I will never agree that there is any justice in excecution.

[ABBEY]

I would like to pose a question. Fred West committed suicide on New Year's Day a few years ago, now why did he do this? inside?

LESSS FOR US TO PAY IN TAXES!!

[Eddie]

Hmm...unless of course an investigation into why this happened and how it was able to occur is launched. You also need to remember those on death row are usually still in prison for several years, so the tax money still has to be used. As well as funding the trials because of course there will be several appeals. On top of this dealing with all the demonstrators uses up valual police time.

[American]

Due to legal appeals, etc. it costs more for the US to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in for life without parole.

The appeals are much more exhaustive in a death penalty case.

Also, there have been numerous instances of prisoners wanting to be executed. They said they would rather die than spend the rest of their lives in prison. Death row is not the best conditions. Basically, they are put in a small cell with little or no sunlight for 23 1/2 hours a day.

[Eddie]

I know I would rather die than spend most of my days in a small cell for the rest of my life. Especially if you happen to feel guilty, I'm not saying that they do, but if they do then that really would be horrible and I'd rather be put out of my misery.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Edited - although this 10 page thread has covered a diverse range of subjects (including murder, the death penalty, burglars in the home, war criminals and even one member talking about Barry Manilow records) my earlier piece in 2005 about a black sex offender was deemed to be "not relevant" to this thread. The piece seemed to upset people and has therefore been edited.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[den]

and?

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

and?

There are Rovers fans living in the south you know Den!

If Abbey can warn parents about a guy in Blackburn, then what's wrong with me featuring a story about a man in Essex...?

[den]

Oh fair enough AESF. There was me thinking you were blaming Tony Blair for not preventing the rape of a young girl.

[Scotty]

Oh fair enough AESF. There was me thinking you were blaming Tony Blair for not preventing the rape of a young girl.

God forbid that AESF would try to link two totally unconnected events in a sensationalist article to make a political point Den. He's just a friend of the people don't you know.

[den]

Oh fair enough AESF.  There was me thinking you were blaming Tony Blair for not preventing the rape of a young girl.

God forbid that AESF would try to link two totally unconnected events in a sensationalist article to make a political point Den. He's just a friend of the people don't you know.

Never crossed me mind Scotty. Honest.

[blue phil]

"Tough on crime , tough on the causes of crime" . Was it not Blair who said that , Den ? Would you not agree that he has abjectly failed in his policies toward curbing violent crime ?

I certainly hold the PM responsible for presiding over a nation were such crimes are all too frequent . He made the election promises ; he's responsible for not delivering on them .

[den]

I certainly wouldn't hold him responsible for the rape of that young girl. As for crime, who would your choice of government be?

I don't expect a straight reply.

[Flopsy]

but things like this have always happened

whatever governement has been power

[blue phil]

I haven't got a straight answer , Den ,because none of the present parties could satisfy the people's desire for peace on their streets . That's why it's high time they were swept away . Our whole democracy is a sham and I've nothing but contempt for those who simply shrug their shoulders , accept the unacceptable and vote Labour/Tory/Liberal. (Sorry Flopsy) . Vote for anyone other than the established gangs of crooks - it's a start ..

[den]

So you don't vote, Phil. That isn't gonna get much of what you don't like, changed - is it?

If you do vote, tell us who you vote for. Instead of simply criticising, put something, or some party forward to represent your views.

Edited March 30, 2005 by den