Second midfielder

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Mark Atkins was born in Doncaster.

Personally cannot believe the amount of votes for Sherwood..everyone to their own I suppose!

[philipl]

A Notts County perspective on the FA Cup of 1891 which produced Jimmy Forrest's never to be equalled fifth FA Cup winner's medal.

A personal note, when I was a child, our next door neighbour was Jimmy Forrest's daughter-in-law. The old lady was never particularly talkative and her husband had died many years before I was born but I do recall the hushed and reverential terms which were used by her for the "greatest Rovers footballer". He was remembered as a gentleman.

[FourLaneBlue]

We are second-guessing about Forrest but we do know one thing...the guy was good enough to captain England. Ok, it was only the once but it's still impressive.

Came across an interesting list of all the England captains since the first international game against Scotland way back in 1872. Blackburn Rovers have had three England international captains. Crompton and Clayton are already in the team, Forrest is the other.

One thing that is blatantly obvious by looking at the list is how Bob Crompton not only towered above other players in quality, in stats alone he also towers above all the other England captains before him and a heck of a long time after him. It has to be remembered how few England internationals there were in those days, today any Tom Dick or Chris Powell can pick up a few caps. Yet Crompton is still, a century on, eighth in the list of number of games captaining England. Also...his record for number of England appearances lasted for almost half a century until Billy Wright came along. Wright was a mainstay in the team for a long time...but not longer than Crompton and there were many more international games in the fifties than before.

Whoops! Should probably have saved this for the 'greatest Rover' poll. Oh well, it's typed now and I can't be bothered doing it again. Links below.

England Captains by Date

Who has captained England the most times?

[jim mk2]

There's only one way this vote's going.

It's bad enough with Le Saux in the team; Sherwood as well would be too much to take. I'm considering digging up some of the relatives: does a posthumous vote count ?

I would ask all those considering voting for Sherwood to read the posts extolling the virtues of candidates such as Forrest and Latheron, players who are part of the fabric and history of Blackburn Rovers Football Club.

[Brownie]

There's only one way this vote's going.

It's bad enough with Le Saux in the team; Sherwood as well would be too much to take. I'm considering digging up some of the relatives: does a posthumous vote count ?

I would ask all those considering voting for Sherwood to read the posts extolling the virtues of candidates such as Forrest and Latheron, players who are part of the fabric and history of Blackburn Rovers Football Club.

I'd say captaining the club to it's greatest modern day success is pretty much part of the club's fabric and history.

Vote for Skippy !

[bellamy11]

I'm actually very surprised/disappointed that Latheron hasn't received more votes. I get the feeling that people are tactically voting rather than doing what they should be doing and picking their personal choice. Political voting will only undermine what we are trying to do here which is create a best 11 made democratically with everybody having the right to make their own choice.

[Al]

Can I switch my vote from Latheron to Forrest please.

Seriously though if Tim Deadwood gets in to our greatest ever side then the whole thing is a farce and not worth continuing as a serious survey.

[den]

With the scores being so close, it's worth doing this again for some of the less regular visitors.

From Brownie:

Tim Sherwood's career at Rovers could not have started any lower and could not have reached higher levels.

Kenny Dalglish signed Sherwood from Norwich's reserves, after an argument with the boss about how football should be played he was dumped into the second string.

He'd already represented England under 21's but his strong personality even at that early stage of his career saw him being allowed to leave and join the then 2nd Division Blackburn.

From day one at Blackburn he was up against it- he was a cockney with long hair called Timothy- and the Rovers fans did not take to him.

Dalglish tried to squeeze him into the side playing him right wing which was a mistake considering his distinct lack of pace.

Left out of the side he was not even on the bench for the Play Offs and seemed on his way out.

With promotion achieved, Sherwood was then restored to the side and adapted to Premiership football far easier than the Nationwide.

His ability to come deep for the ball, maintain posession and link defence with attack, and cover every blade of grass every game saw him slowly but surely win the fans over.

In my opinion he had a touch of class, matched with a fiery determination which was recognised by Dalglish when he made him Skipper.

Once captain of the side, the team and Sherwood never looked back.

Terry Venables once pointed out that Sherwood had the ability to release the ball quickly allowing his team-mate time on the ball, Dave Bassett labelled him the best 'nuts and bolts' midfielder in the country.

In 1994/95 he formed formidable partnerships with Mark Atkins and David Batty and at times carried the Rovers side through tough games.

Those that travelled away from home in the 94/95 season will have noticed Sherwood screaming at his players to lift them particularly after conceding goals in the midst of cauldron atmospheres. I thought Sherwood's captaincy throughout that season was a major factor in our success.

It's for this reason that I will vote for Tim Sherwood, not the greatest midfielder the club has ever had, but in recent times I feel the most important.

Sherwood went on to win England caps his career deserved after joining Spurs from Blackburn and I would suggest if business interests don't rule his future would make an excellent manager.

Tim Sherwood will always symbolise the greatest day of my life, Sherwood's hands were the first Blackburn hands to hold the Premiership Trophy and may well be the last for the long and distant future.

Vote Sherwood for the Spirit of 95.

[den]

Colin, for Mark Atkins:

Let's start with some statistics:

He is at number 29 in the number of games played for Rovers since the records began in 1888.

He played 272 games in all.

Just for comparison, this puts him well above (say) David Batty (70); Alan Shearer (165) and Tim Flowers (214.)

He scored 39 goals in those games. This despite spending much of his time at right back, and then at central midfield. Although at a push he could play just about anywhere, and he was capable of playing anywhere. He made a decent effort at playing on the right wing more than once.

He was at Rovers for 7 years.

The season we won the league he was the joint third highest scorer.

Deep intake of breath..............

And his name is Mark Atkins

A Bit Of History & Details

Super Atko made his league debut for Scunthorpe United whilst still a schoolboy and appeared in over sixty matches for that club (as well as playing for England schools) before Don MacKay bought him in 1988 for £45,000 Although he spent much of his early career at Ewood Park at full-back, he continually demonstrated an eye for goal.

Under the managership of Kenny Dalglish, he developed into a battling midfield player whose boundless energy and appetite for work made him the ideal partner for those around him.

Eventually, with Batty and Sherwood holding down the midfield positions at Blackburn, he moved to Wolverhampton Wanderers in September 1995.

He then went on to play for Doncaster, Shrewsbury (where he was temporary manager) and was last seen at Harrogate Town.

Atko At His Best

25th May 1992. Rovers v Leicester in the first division play-off at Wembley. A very hot day. Rovers were 1-0 in the lead after David Speedie tripped over a daisy and Mike Newall converted the penalty. A nervous moment, as Newall was notorious for his erratic penalty taking.

Then: after 85 minutes a break from midfield. A lone figure in yellow sprints to get to the stray ball leaving all others in his wake. He is storming forward like a horny stallion chasing a "my little pony" on heat. The Leicester keeper brings him down. Super Atko has sealed it for us. Yeh! Super Atko!

But Newall skies the penalty and reduces us to nervous wrecks for the last five minutes. Thanks Mike. Now go forth and manage Luton Town.

So, why should you vote for Mark Atkins

Atko never played for England. He was never collared in the tunnel for a post-match interview. He was never the subject of a tabloid shocker. No-one ever asked him to "write" a column for a newspaper. He was never in a "bust-up" with a manager. He was simply a professional footballer who got on with his job.

From his origins from Scunthorpe, he slipped into the Rovers' team where he would be a lynchpin for seven years. Older readers will remember Atko storming up and down the quagmire that was Ewood Park at the time.

After Uncle Jack arrived on the scene the squad grew, expensive signings joined the dressing room and it seemed that Atko would be perpetually in the reserves. Did this bother him? It did not. He just carried on grafting and working.

In the three years that he was with Rovers after we got promoted he played:

(1) 31 games and scored 6

(2) 9 games and scored 1

Then, when injury forced David Batty to miss the majority of the 1994-95 season, it was Atko who filled the void and formed a central midfield partnership with Tim Sherwood.

(3) 37 games and scored 6 - and that was when we won The Premiership.

It was a bit of an injustice when Atko was forced to sit out the final three games of the season following the return of Batty. However, there were no complaints from him as he once again proved himself a loyal servant to the club.

He represents everything that is good about our football club and pretty much all that can be good about professional footballers. In a nutshell he was the antithesis of the diving, prancing prima-donnas who seem to have taken over the game.

No bull, no hissy fits, no sulks, no boot deals, no MacDonalds adverts, no deliberate sendings-off. Probably the only agent he ever had was his newsagent.

He kept his gob shut and played his heart out for the club. Maybe he wasn't the most skilfull but for what he lacked in that department he made up with guts and effort and comittment . He had a heart as big as a bucket. He never shirked a tackle, he might have missed the ball ever so slightly once or twice, but no-one got hurt.

He won a Premiership Champions medal after contributing to 30 of the 42 league games in the season when we won the title. That is not a coincidence. He deserved that medal.

In a team that was seen at the time (and has mistakenly been seen ever since) to have been compiled from Jack Walkers money, he was a refreshing bargain-basement buy.

And he was one of only a few ex-players to be bothered to get his kit on for Garner's testimonial. For me that speaks volumes.

Anyhow here's a piccy of Super Atko, sadly not in the B & W but in Wolves Old Gold

Mark Atkins

Finally. You will have noted that time is slipping away for some kind of choice for the remaining players. I reckon it's a certainty who will be slipping into the two strikers and left wing places.

This leaves only two central midfield roles to be filled. Maybe, just maybe, one of these deserves to be filled by some one who was just an ordinary bloke. No frills, no caps, he just pulled on his boots and for seven years he had a blue & white heart.

Ladies and gentlemen, I offer you Mark Atkins. Vote for him. You know we need an honest grafter in there.

Thank you.

[den]

SG194, for Eddie Latheron:

Edwin Gladstone Latheron was born in Grangetown,North East England and joined Blackburn Rovers in 1906 almost by accident.He was discovered when visiting Blackburn to play for Grangetown against Blackburn Crosshill in an FA amatuer cup tie.Rovers had originally gone to watch another player but it was Latheron who caught their eye and Rovers paid £25 to bring him to Ewood!

A skilful inside forward who,despite his lack of height, was good in the air he possessed fantastic ball control coupled with a fine shot on him.... he quickly established himself as a fans favourite with the Blackburn public.A prolific goalscorer himself, he was claimed never to be a selfish player and always prepared to do the 'fetching and carrying' for other team mates.

Without question a driving force(alongside Crompton) behind the all conquering pre war Rovers Championship sides of 1912 and 1914 he was capped twice by England and represented the football League.

At the height of his powers Eddie played his last game for Rovers on March 17th 1917.Five days later he went to fight for Queen and Country in the trenches of France and tragically just seven months later he was killed by a German shell.He left a widow and a young child.....he was just 28.

Played league football for Rovers between 1906-1915, made a total of 282 appearances in all competitions and scored an impressive 104 goals.

[den]

Speeeeeedie's assessment of Batty:

I first saw Batty when he played for Leeds, we tubbed them 3-1 at Ewood in our first season up. It was the game when Shearer did his knee. Wilcox ran Mel Sterland ragged. I remember then watching him and thinking what class he had, simple but very effective. Allegedly Dalglish went to Leeds asking for McCallister, they said no, so he asked for Batty instead. He won player of the year in his first season with us, ahead of Shearer and his 30 goals. He did everything simple, kept the ball well and broke up attacks well. He was brilliant, far better than Sherwood, and also never scored, but injuries and his Le Saux fight marred him. Won plenty of England caps, missed a penalty in 1998.

[den]

FLB's assessment of Jimmy Forest:

If we are looking at players who won the most for our club we are ignoring the one player who more with Rovers than any other...Jimmy Forrest. An England international, capped eleven times (games were so few in the 1880/90s that it made him a regular in the national side for six years!) he also went on to win not one, not two but five (count 'em!) FA Cup medals for Rovers. No other player has ever won more FA Cup medals than Forrest. Not only that, he captained us in the last two triumphant cup runs.

There is absolutely no doubt that in those days that the FA Cup was far, far more important than the league. A cup win was everything and even until after the second world war that remained the case. The national champions were the FA Cup winners. Forrest was a driving force in a side that were the champions of England, scoting in two of the finals (and indeed Britain for the first three wins when Scottish, Irish and Welsh teams took part) and a great leader. Maybe most won't vote for him but we should spare a thought for a true Rovers legend, the most decorated player of the greatest team in the world. Alright it was bloody ages ago (and fans of other clubs wet themselves if we go on about the nineteenth century) but it's still something to be proud of.

[den]

Harry Healess, by Bazza:

Here's a snippet about Healless taken from "Things about Blackburn Rovers" by Harry Kay, published in 1948.

" Harry Healless is a native of Blackburn, and he was the only Blackburn man in the Cup winning team he captained in 1928. He first played for Blackburn Trinity, and then for the Rovers as an amateur in 1914-15, becoming a professional in May, 1919. His last league appearance for the Rovers was against Chelsea at Ewood on December 31, 1932, and his last match with the Reserves was at Stoke on April 15th, 1933.

Harry was one of those footballers who did not develop early; in fact, far from being a star in his teens, he was unknown. When he became a professional for the Rovers he was a centre forward. He played in six other positions. After a period as leader of the attack he went outside right, and later he was right full back, right half, centre half, left half and inside right. In those various berths he was usually good but seldom brilliant. Eventually he became centre-half, and, when big "Billy" Rankin came from Dundee, Healless moved to right half.

During his long career with the Rovers, Harry was capped by England twice.

His capable generalship often pulled the Rovers through when things seemed to be going badly against them. He could last through the most arduous game, and the team often derived encouragement from the fact that he never seemed to tire.

In summer he likes a game of cricket, and was one of the leading batsmen in the Alice Street Wesleyan team, who played in the Blackburn Sunday School League."

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Quite frankly shocked and appalled that Sherwood now leads the poll ahead of Forrest and Latheron.

Sherwood has NEVER and could NEVER be described as a 'great'........

ITS A COMPLETE JOKE

[bazza]

It' absolutely scandalous that Sherwood is now in the lead.

Greatest ever midfielder my a*se!

When Sherwood was injured and our two midfielders were McKinlay and Flitcroft we were awsome. As soon as Sherwood was fit again he replaced McKinlay and the team faded.

So much for "greatness"!

[Brownie]

It' absolutely scandalous that Sherwood is now in the lead.

Greatest ever midfielder my a*se!

When Sherwood was injured and our two midfielders were McKinlay and Flitcroft we were awsome. As soon as Sherwood was fit again he replaced McKinlay and the team faded.

So much for "greatness"!

The team faded when he was virtually an ever present and we won the Prem ? or was it the season he won Fan's Player of the Year ?

[bazza]

It' absolutely scandalous that Sherwood is now in the lead.

Greatest ever midfielder my a*se!

When Sherwood was injured and our two midfielders were McKinlay and Flitcroft we were awsome. As soon as Sherwood was fit again he replaced McKinlay and the team faded.

So much for "greatness"!

The team faded when he was virtually an ever present and we won the Prem ? or was it the season he won Fan's Player of the Year ?

It was after the championship season when Billy McKinlay was with us. I can't remember which particular season, and I haven't access to records at the moment.

[RevidgeBlue]

Has to be Batty for me, his Rovers career may have been short but for a time it was extremely sweet.

He produced a standard I've never seen before or since from a Rovers midfielder in the second half of the 93/94 season when we nearly overhauled a 15 point deficit to overtake ManUre.

[Al]

I am now convinced that many of the votes for Sherwood are michievous and calculated to irritate the people on this site who take this poll seriously.

There is no reasonable argument to suggest that he was anything more than a good to average player who happened to be captain. If being captain was an indication of ability then surely Shearer would have been given the job.

I know I have said it before but if this team ends up with the likes of Sherwood and Le Seaux included then the whole thing becomes a farce and the spotty oiks have succeeded in their efforts to sabotage the whole project. It would be a real shame if Den's fantastic work ended in farce.

Some things are a matter of opinion and some things are a matter of fact.

I believe that Sherwood not being fit to be included in this holy of holies belongs to the latter.

[speeeeeeedie]

Revidge, I agree with you that Batty was a class act, and a longer stay would definitely put him the top of my list. But for sense's sake vote for Forrest. Right now Sherwood is winning due to people with memories stretching back to 1995 alone.

Sherwood left under a cloud and although he did well for us and I liked him as a player, he is never a great.

Al, spot on re. the farce comment.

Edited November 15, 2004 by speeeeeeedie

[jim mk2]

I am now convinced that many of the votes for Sherwood are michievous and calculated to irritate the people on this site who take this poll seriously.

There is no reasonable argument to suggest that he was anything more than a good to average player who happened to be captain. If being captain was an indication of ability then surely Shearer would have been given the job.

I know I have said it before but if this team ends up with the likes of Sherwood and Le Seaux included then the whole thing becomes a farce and the spotty oiks have succeeded in their efforts to sabotage the whole project. It would be a real shame if Den's fantastic work ended in farce.

Some things are a matter of opinion and some things are a matter of fact.

I believe that Sherwood not being fit to be included in this holy of holies belongs to the latter.

Marvellous.

[Tris]

I am now convinced that many of the votes for Sherwood are michievous and calculated to irritate the people on this site who take this poll seriously.

There is no reasonable argument to suggest that he was anything more than a good to average player who happened to be captain. If being captain was an indication of ability then surely Shearer would have been given the job.

I know I have said it before but if this team ends up with the likes of Sherwood and Le Seaux included then the whole thing becomes a farce and the spotty oiks have succeeded in their efforts to sabotage the whole project. It would be a real shame if Den's fantastic work ended in farce.

Some things are a matter of opinion and some things are a matter of fact.

I believe that Sherwood not being fit to be included in this holy of holies belongs to the latter.

It would be interesting to know how many of those who voted Latheron would transfer their votes to Forrest, if this poll operated like the French Presidential election (which goes to a second round of voting involving only the top two candidates from the first round).

I for one would transfer Latheron to Forrest, if that happened with all 12 he would be out in front, even if all the Batty boys (or girls) transferred to Sherwood.

How the rest would split out would be interesting, but maybe, given how the voting currently stands, to get this vital decision right the vote could indeed be re-run with just the two leading candidates.

No-one could then argue that the result was in any doubt.

Sorry Den, I might just have made life yet more difficult for you !

Edited November 15, 2004 by Tris

[bob fleming]

If Eddie Latheron's name wasn't up there Jimmy Forrest would have had 12 more votes (probably). Like Al I too voted for Latheron - if only I'd known.

Perhaps we could have a second vote for this poll. With just the top two. It'll then just be a straight choice between Forrest and Sherwood.

Whilst I appreciate that this is yet more work for Den, I really do think that it would be the fairest way of settling this highly contentious second midfield position.

Just a suggestion

Edit: (Bloody hell Tris!)

Edited November 15, 2004 by bob fleming

[den]

You can't really expect me to change the rules half way through a vote.

What's all this "tactical voting" you're all talking about? Did you not vote for Latheron because he was the greatest, in your eyes?

Sorry guys, were stuck with whatever the result may be.

The best way to get Forrest voted in, is to reiterate again how good he was.

The vote is so close, it could yet go either way.

[Manchester Blue]

I am now convinced that many of the votes for Sherwood are michievous and calculated to irritate the people on this site who take this poll seriously.

There is no reasonable argument to suggest that he was anything more than a good to average player who happened to be captain. If being captain was an indication of ability then surely Shearer would have been given the job.

I know I have said it before but if this team ends up with the likes of Sherwood and Le Seaux included then the whole thing becomes a farce and the spotty oiks have succeeded in their efforts to sabotage the whole project. It would be a real shame if Den's fantastic work ended in farce.

Some things are a matter of opinion and some things are a matter of fact.

I believe that Sherwood not being fit to be included in this holy of holies belongs to the latter.

Has it never occurred to you that people don't appreciate being dictated to and labelled spotty oiks and other various insults. By stamping your feet and chucking your toys out of the cot you and Jim may well be achieving the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

FLB simply made a great case for Crompton to go in. No name calling, no insults and no labelling people short-sighted know nothings. Result, he got in by a mile. You & Jim have labelled the whole thing a mockery of you don't get your own way and what has happened? Incidentally I stopped voting after the Le Saux thread so you can't blame me. I think as soon as people start slating the thing when who you want doesn't get in it derides the hard work put in and frankly makes a mockery of the idea of a democratic vote.

You can vote for whoever you want as long as it's who Jim & Al say you should vote for.