Second midfielder

[tcj_jones]

I think it is a truly sad reflection of many on this board that Sherwood is above Forrest in this vote.

[mhead]

As a Latheron voter I'm perplexed he has so few votes but clearly the Historians are split on this and the modernists have just chosen the Captain of our Premier Champions.Fair enough.

What we need a Stewards enquiry on is the fact that there have been 56 users active in the last 15 minutes,we supposedly have 3045 registered members YET ONLY 134 MEMBERS HAVE VOTED.

Its not the Euro bloody election but where are the missing members?Has Peter Cucumber and his friends given up?How many are dead?We need an Admin. enquiry plus a check of the calibrations.

[Tris]

You can't really expect me to change the rules half way through a vote.

What's all this "tactical voting" you're all talking about? Did you not vote for Latheron because he was the greatest, in your eyes?

Sorry guys, were stuck with whatever the result may be.

The best way to get Forrest voted in, is to reiterate again how good he was.

The vote is so close, it could yet go either way.

It's a terribly hard call to make, but I wouldn't say it was changing the rules. No-one could have envisaged this situation, where two candidates have 32 / 33% of the vote each but the other nine share 35%.

Which is why France uses the two ballot system to elect its President. After the second round of voting, the winner is the one with over half the votes. The outcome is beyond argument.

Because of the way this internet vote (and the associated comments in the thread) work, people who have voted later have had more information than those who voted early - ie the last couple of pages reveal the exact situation of the vote. Everyone who votes now will go one of two ways because they already know there are only two runners.

[Billinge End Blue]

Read the testimonials further up , voted for Latheron narrowly over Forrest....then deigned to read the full thread!

Talk about hanging chads...

No way should Tim 'original handbag' Sherwood be the second midfield great - did he not flash the V's at the Blackburn End once?

[92er]

Yes.

[soupdragon]

As someone who has read this message board for many moons, it has taken the unedifying prospect of Tim Sherwood squeezing his way into the al-time best Rovers team for me to get off my backside and start typing.

I know that many will be influenced, understandably, by players that they themselves have seen playing. However, we are talking about creating the best team from 130 years of history. I have seen Tim Sherwood play many many games for us and at no stage was he anything other than a capable midfielder who played his part in a team effort, but no more so than the likes of Mark Atkins, Paul Warhurst and (especially) David Batty. His most prominent attributes were an A grade in pointing, and an uncanny ability to give away needless freekicks (an aptitude subsequently taken up with aplomb by Gary Flitcroft).

Older relatives speak very highly of Eddie Quigley as someone with twinkle toes (technical phrase), an eye for a cutting pass, excellent first touch and who contributed more than his fair share of goals. However, numbers are not favourable for him and, given the options, I am happy to vote for Jimmy Forrest. I'm not sure how he'd fare with the pace of the modern game but 5 cup winner's medals, at a time when the cup meant more than the league, is a record not to be sneezed at.

[jim mk2]

As someone who has read this message board for many moons, it has taken the unedifying prospect of Tim Sherwood squeezing his way into the al-time best Rovers team for me to get off my backside and start typing. 

Where were you when Le Saux was voted in instead of Sir Keith Newton ?

I feel sorry for Den with this. His laudable efforts to find the best all-time Rovers team are being undermined by those who are ignoring our great club's glorious past.

Sherwood was a good player in an outstanding team but he does not qualify as a "great".

[Manchester Blue]

Where were you when Le Saux was voted in instead of Sir Keith Newton ?

Newton was beaten by Eckersley by a country mile. Even without Le Saux he would never have gotten in to the team.

[broadsword]

Ha! 46-all now.

Forrest to serve ...

[Brownie]

Can we play one in either half ?

[Cheshireblue]

If it stays tied, can we not undertake the poll again, with just Sherwood and Forrest as the options?

Personally, I think that Forrest is head and shoulders above Sherwood. You can only measure people aginst their per groups and I don't see Sherwood having a raft of medals or international caps to his name.

Batty was far more influential in our championship side than Sherwood was. Frankly, any old midfielder could have played behind Shearer and Sutton and inbetween Wilcox Ripley and Batty and we would still have won the title.

Sherwood was not even one of the best players in the championship side, let alone one of our greatest midfielders ever. In my view, Shearer, Sutton, Batty, Hendry, May, Berg, Le Saux and Flowers were all far better players in their positions than he was in his. This is clearly backed up by the number of international caps they received (Except Sutton who famously dispatched toys from pram).

I will be embarrassed for all of us if he gets in.

[Brownie]

.

Batty was far more influential in our championship side than Sherwood was. Frankly, any old midfielder could have played behind Shearer and Sutton and inbetween Wilcox Ripley and Batty and we would still have won the title.

Youre suffering from memory loss mate.

Batty only played a double handful of games at the end of the season of which we lost most of.

He didn't even collect a medal because he said he hadn't earned it.

[Duff's Minder]

I have seen Tim Sherwood play many many games for us and at no stage was he anything other than a capable midfielder who played his part in a team effort, but no more so than the likes of Mark Atkins, Paul Warhurst and (especially) David Batty.

Couldn't agree more. Sherwood was a good player but to have in our greatest ever is an insult to the history of the club. Tugay is (or maybe was) a better player than Sherwood.

Vote Forrest now!

[den]

I feel sorry for Den with this. His laudable efforts to find the best all-time Rovers team are being undermined by those who are ignoring our great club's glorious past.

Thanks for that Jim. We're not doing too badly though, looking at the overall picture. There have been two controversial selections - Le Saux and this second central midfielder position. What the heck, though. When all this is finished [and the best part could be the single greatest player ever], what will we have? We will have a team that reflects the opinions of the majority of members on this site - no more, no less. That's great, that's what we want isn't it?

Let's be honest, whatever team is chosen wont alter the views, or memories, of old timers such as you, me and lots of others. What we will have though, and this is the really important bit, is a collection of opinions, viewpoints, debates from rovers fans of all age groups. What's more everything can be saved for many, many years, if not for ever.

There have been no nominations for players from the thirties and forties. Why? I assume because no-one remembers them. The players from the fifties and sixties are obviously being forgotten as well. Is that not shown, to some extent, by this topic? Yours, and others posts about some of these players, are helping ensure that the real class and quality of these players are recorded/remembered and read by all age groups. This is a way of recording some of the rovers fans recollections of former players. That's well worth while.

It's not all about the older fans though, is it? The views of the younger generation are just as valuable. At least, their recollections are fresh in the mind. I don't remember Bryan Douglas ever having a bad game, do you?

So, the best way to help me out, is to continue to contribute to this topic. If everyone stops commenting and voting, as one or two people say they have, then it could die a death. I hope and think, that it wont.

Edited November 16, 2004 by den

[mhead]

Den. This is exciting and distracting.47-46 at 12.30pm...what will it be at 2pm?

And then you think only 22% of our Sept 5th high of 636 users have voted and only 4% of our(supposed) 3045 registered members have voted.

As a Latheron voter I say VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN VOTE FORREST.

[broadsword]

There's only one potential problem position.

Duff is a virtual certainty I'd have thought. Shearer too.

I'd go for Tommy Briggs I think his name was for the second striker's position. But sadly Garner will probably get it!

I'm amazed that there's not been more of the more recent players get in.

If you think about it ...

Rovers have been going for 130 years.

Most on here have just watched them for say 30 years, that's 10% of the time.

During that 10% of the time, there's been stand-out players in each position, sandwiched by mediocrity, which makes the 95 team perhaps seem better than they are.

Compared to teams of days gone by, when we were dominant for long periods, those players that were special in those days don't seem so remarkable as we had a number of strong teams that were established for a long time.

So not only do the early players suffer from the telescope effect of more recent (but not as remarkable?) deeds carrying greater weight and a lack of living memory, they also suffer from the unique 10 years which we've had. Crap to good to greatest to bad to good to terrible to awful to good to awful again.

So it's quite pleasing that a lot of older names are there, we're not doing too bad.

[den]

This is a good time to decide when to close the vote, the scores are virtually level.

We will close the poll on Sunday, the first time I log on after the Birmingham game. We'll give it that long because this is still a relatively low poll, numbers wise, at the moment.

[bazza]

Well done "Soupdragon". Excellent first post and I agree with a lot that you have said.

Come on some more of you "messageboard readers only" and vote for Jimmy Forrest.

[Biddy]

Well I just voted for Sherwood. Great player!

I would have gone for Super Atko, just been rewatching the 91-92 season highlights again. Those were the days.

Edited November 16, 2004 by Biddy

[jim mk2]

Well I just voted for Sherwood. Great player!

I would have gone for Super Atko, just been rewatching the 91-92 season highlights again. Those were the days.

Well done. No doubt living in Slough gives you a greater sense of perpective.

Didn't you read the other posts on why Sherwood is not worthy ?

[Biddy]

Apologies Bryan, my opinion doesn't match yours.

As for Crompton or Latheron or Forrest, admitted they are greats but can I say they are the best? I don't know.

I voted for the best player in my opinion, I saw Sherwood command a championship winning team, I think that makes him pretty damn good.

Wow, the politics around here!

[American]

Can you say Hitler was evil? You never saw his work first hand...

[jim mk2]

As for Crompton or Latheron or Forrest, admitted they are greats but can I say they are the best? I don't know.

So you've admitted they are "greats" but you still vote for the idiots choice because you were instructed to by another of the unwashed.

Congratulations.

Memo to Den: this vote should not be counted.

[Biddy]

Memo to Den: this vote should not be counted.

Now there's democracy in action.

I admit there's three other greats but still think Sherwood is worth my vote and it shouldn't be counted?

Go on then, shut the voting and give it to Forrest. You know it's what some round here want, even if others don't

Edited November 16, 2004 by Biddy

[Manchester Blue]

Can you say Hitler was evil? You never saw his work first hand...

So you are comparing a guy who committed one of the worst atrocities in history and who practically everyone studies in school, with a guy who i've never heard of my Dad's never heard but because he won medals when the game was still barely more than an amateur affair with the rules still being changed every week. Yeah I see where you're coming from now good comparison. Can I change my vote please Den?