Yorke And The Fans

[BuckyRover]

or `N*gger` to refer to black people (you know the words I mean).

lets have it right what do these black rappers call one another....

my nigga!!!!!!s

so its ok for them to call it themselves but not for us to call them what they call themselves...the mind boggles.

In my circle of friends we regularly swear at each other within general banter.

But if somebody I didn't know came up to me and called me a "w&nker" or similar, I would be offended.

[adopted scouser]

But if somebody I didn't know came up to me and called me a "w&nker" or similar, I would be offended.

So by your rationale, it's OK if someone just thinks your a w@nker ?

[Claytons Left Boot]

Yorke is a professional and he should of known better than to go near the blackburn end and also he should of known not to approach the blackburn end supporters.

If i was Yorke and i was getting called lazy, yet still getting paid x amount of thousands of £'s a week id just laugh my head off at the supporters singing at me.

Quite correct Hughesy - I was discussing the event with my BWFC mate today and we said exactly the same thing.

You're treading on thin ice with the Yorke near the Bburn End thing though. I voiced the same opinion on here shortly after the game and was accused by Jim of talking out of my arse. Tut, tut. (mods were you reading?)

Of course I was well aware Yorke was allowed to warm up wherever he wished, but in practice it was a tad stupid. After all, would Cantana have warmed up in front of the Kop at Leeds or indeed Ince in front of West Ham's finest?

I don't think so.

As a side issue - Jim, you haven't yet praised Williams & Co for their swift and effective actions!

[American]

Actually, he's not allowed to warm up where he pleases. He has to warm up where told. And that's where he was told to warm up.

[1864roverite]

adopted scouser your absolutely right on that last post.

Racist related crime = immediate response and high publicity

High value or despicable burglary/robbery = low key response low media profile

But unfortuantely that is the world we live in. The whole sorry world has gone soft because of PC related people with nothing else to do but sitting on their fat ugly bottoms thinking of how to disrupt the sytems. But unfortunately thats the way this world has gone.

It doesnt matter that a young girl was murdered in Southampton after being brutally raped.

It doesnt matter that an old dear was abused verbally for taking a little longer to put her shopping on the till roll and when she questionned the purprotrator she was swiftly punched in the face (she was 83 yrs of age for gods sake).

It doesnt matter that currently there are over 1059 people lsited as missing from England and Wales.

It doesnt matter that we currently in Lancashire have two of the most violent towns in the North West in Preston and Blackpool with a seriously high volume of violent related crimes.

It doesnt matter that overall in Lancashire on an annual basis over £25m pounds worth of electrical items and household goods are stolen in burglary related crimes.

it doesnt matter that we currently have outstanding in the NWest over £29m pounds worth of stolen vehicles.

What matters in this scenario is that it is a highly reportable and media attractive crime. Yes one individual can be seen making a gesture and the same can be seen by lip reading to be making some sort of comment relating to colour and his legitimacy.

the powers that be within the Police, the local government and the higher ranking officials of this Country seem to want to make such a pow wow of this incident that it makes the national media, news at 6, news at 6.30, the sports teletext pages,the news teletext pages and the main radio bulletins, and for what I ask ?

Some of our members have pointed out that coloured people, and in particular Black rap singers and R+B artists along with stars such as Eminem etc always refer to their mates and colleagues as NIGGA. Let me explain as I understand. Way back in time the term NIGGA was always referred to as "my friend". It is widely used and has been for years within the black music and black American culture.

Over here in the good old UK and Europe, the term NIGGER is quite rightly a derogatory slur on our coloured brethren. IMO it is totally unacceptable to refer to anyone as NIGGER. However I do have coloured friends and it pains me when I hear them refer to each other as NIGGA, ie, "Yo Nigga" is simply a coloured or black term for HELLO. I have to listen to the rap songs that seem to constantly ring out with the term NIGGA. The only white person I have heard use this term in singing is Eminem. There has not been any outcry about that as it is seen as acceptable.

In relation to the above there is obvious contradiction with how the term NIGGA can be applied. In one way it is acceptable to some in another is is totally taboo. I wonder how many of our members are coloured and would feel to see a fellow coloured male refer to them as NIGGA and at the same time apply the same test to a white member of the board. Please guys if anyone could answer that one then please do. I seriously would think they would be upset but if asked the question why one is acceptable and the other not I would suggest thtye would be hard pressed to answer the question or give a reason why.

The same can be applied to the word HONKY being used as a term for coloured against whites.

The whole sorry episode of racism is still rife within different communities. its not just white on coloured, on other ethnic groups, or other countries. Its all over however when it is white on coloured it is seen as a much higher profile. it is never reported as much when it is the other way round and the white person is the victim.

You can equal one example against another throughout life, and that is the sad part.

Thats my view, like it or not. This is the way the media reports such matters, the way the "authorities" and powers that be deal with it, quite wrongly in my opinion. I am sure others will agree and at the same time disagree.

I have not a racist bone in my body, I have friends of Asian background, caribbean background and Chinese ethnic background. I am no better than them nor less. We are all equal and none is better than the other.

The problem arises when one thinks he is above the other.

[thenodrog]

Despite the "sticks and stones" arguement put forward by some in the wake of recent events, racism is essentially a conceptual thing, dependant in large part on language for its transmission. By adopting a previously racist epithet as a term of respect, you nulify the potency of that word, and in part the potency of the concept which underpinned its original intent. Doesn't mean we can use the term though.

But playing Devils advocate here........surely banning white people from doing something that black people are freely allowed to do simply because they are white is racist in itself?

btw I'm with adopted scouse! Good common sense post mate!

[1864roverite]

How dare you TND ?

Racist ? what racist ?

your spot on by the way

[American]

Actually, I'm with Bucky. I call my friends Mother$#&^$# and the B word that rhymes with witch, but if someone else called them that they'd get a good beating. Same thing with Nigga.

As for the other, there is now, and will always be, racism. It's a natural reaction to single out people/species who are different from you. Heck, I get more stick from Black people when I go somewhere with my Black female friend, than I do from White people.

There are really 3 reasons this whole thing was blown out of proportion. 1. it was caught on tv. 2. apparently this is a slow news week in England and 3. it comes right on the heels of Madrid and all of the sanctamonious spouting of the English how they would never do anything like that.

[herbergeehh]

There's a lot of people calling themselves e.g "fat". They know they are fat, and copes with that by using humour. That doesn't mean they like being called fat..

I know, the example isn't the best, since we're talking about footballers.. but I'm sure you get my point. Or ?

[Morph]

Despite the "sticks and stones" arguement put forward by some in the wake of recent events, racism is essentially a conceptual thing, dependant in large part on language for its transmission. By adopting a previously racist epithet as a term of respect, you nulify the potency of that word, and in part the potency of the concept which underpinned its original intent. Doesn't mean we can use the term though.

But playing Devils advocate here........surely banning white people from doing something that black people are freely allowed to do simply because they are white is racist in itself?

I sort of see where you are coming from TNR, and to an extent I would agree with you, but only insofar as saying that anyone using racial epithets against someone of a different ethnic background should be judged by the same yardstick, regardless of their colour. With regard to the use of the word "nigga" (or any other word used to define a specific group of people based on their race, creed, sexuality or familiarity with the Linux operating system*) I think it has to be judged in terms of both the context in which the word was used, and the intent behind that useage. Some members of the black community have appropriated the word "nigga" and turned it round to be a positive thing. Doubtless other members of said community still find the word distasteful and would never use it in any context, either in reference to themselves or others. The closest corollary I can think of (although it is by no means an exact one) is the way in which certain white people choose to define themselves as "aryan", despite the negative connotations carried by the word due to the weight of history. If someone of a different skin colour (actually, make that any skin colour) described me as aryan I would probably be pretty offended by it, but to some people the term is a source of pride. The pen can indeed sometimes be mightier than the sword, but it often depends on who is holding it as to which way it cuts.

*You know to whom I refer geek boy (I claim the right to use the word because I'm still sulking over the fact that I didn't get into WoW European Beta )

[Claytons Left Boot]

Actually, he's not allowed to warm up where he pleases. He has to warm up where told. And that's where he was told to warm up.

I have read every single post within this thread and was aware of Rule 3 that was pointed out several pages back in relation to where players are allowed to warm up.

What I meant was he could have chosen any area within the halfway line to Blackburn End section which is where I think he would have been told to warm up.

When he was the target of the chanting (and the racial abuse by the 1/2 guy(s)), he was right by the corner flag at the Blackburn End which was, in my opinion, rather stupid , a viewpoint endorsed by his own Chairman.

Or in today's PC society in this country perhaps I should say by his own Chair.

How do you know he was told to warm up by the corner flag?

[Scotty]

He could have been warming up in the Blackburn End concourse - he still doesn't deserve to be racially abused.

[Brownie]

He could have been warming up in the Blackburn End concourse - he still doesn't deserve to be racially abused.

Have to agree.

you can't one hand love the likes of Speedie and Dickov for winding up opposition fans and then get upset because a substitute warms up within spitting distance of the BB End.

[Claytons Left Boot]

I agree and so does just about every memebr on this Board.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Scotty and Brownie - I couldn't agree more but the simple fact of the matter is that if Yorke had showed a little more common sense the whole sorry episode would probably not have happened.

[Scotty]

I agree and so does just about every memebr on this Board.

So why do you seem to be criticising him for where he warmed up?

[Claytons Left Boot]

Read my sentence above from...."the simple fact............etc

[OnePost]

Have Mr Dwight Yorke's actions now set a precedent for ethnic minority sportsmen and women in this country? Why should BRFC be the only club to enjoy being singled out for inspection under the political correctness microscope?

Are ethnic minority sportsmen and women now duty bound to follow Mr Yorke's lead in the eradication of racism from the terraces or wherever else sport might be spectated?

I look forward with great anticipation to the next episode in the fight against the current wave of virulent racism in our football grounds.

Who's next ? Some possibilities..................

The mainstays of the Arsenal team leave the field of play because a small section of the crowd chant "We f'in hate the French" - How would the FA deal with that one? Would they play on? Who'd be awarded the points if the game was abandoned? The team close to relegation or the team at the top of the league?

Leeds United have to play behind closed doors after parts of the crowd indulge in an anti-Turkish chant? (Mind you they've done that chant before without repercussion, so that must be permissable)

Games stopped whilst the offended player climbs into the crowd to point out the sorry individual that abused him?

The list of teams is endless, because there's bound to be at least 10% of any crowd that watches them who have thought racist thoughts, or said the word "Paki", or "blackboard", or "blackout", or..... or...... or....... god forbid..........."Blackburn".

Well done millionaire Mr Dwight Yorke, you've really shown the world what you're made of by insisting on bringing charges against the one drunken kid in a 20000+ crowd that dared to imitate a monkey. Mr Yorke has really gone up in my estimation.

Mind you, just an idea, what if super-hero Dwight Yorke had given the feeble minded miscreant the chance to meet and issue a joint statement condeming the evil racism consuming our sports arenas, whilst admitting to the world the error of his ways. Maybe something positive would have come of this whole sorry episode. Never mind, at least Mr. Yorke still comes out looking great.

By the way, I sometimes imitate a monkey when I'm playing with my kids........... Sorry, Dwight wouldn't have any idea about that would he.

I wonder if he considered whether his spot of evangelicism might stir up a bit of racism rather than eradicate it?

[Scotty]

I think it's really sad that a number of posters on here seem to be implying that Yorke is in some way to blame, or has in some way encouraged, this incident.

He was racially abused and he reported it. What's wrong with that? It's not his fault that the media went beserk and the lad involved was treated harshly.

Racial abuse should not be tolerated by anyone. It may not be the crime of the century but it is still a crime and the knob who did it deserved to be reported.

[mrsjansen]

Is it not in the FA rule book somewhere that players have to warm up behind the linesman, whichever end of the ground he is at?

Secondly the Lancashire police can now pat themselves on the back that they caught the indivisuals, even tho they did walk into the police station and give themselves up, then one denied racial abuse in court. The lad is obviously all there!!!!!!!!!

Thirdly on Sat we play Fulham, Andy Cole is playing another Black ex striker, maybe we can now put a line under this whole sorry mess and concentrating on showing the world that Rovers fans aren't racist oh yeah and supporting our boys in the little non event of a football match.

[OnePost]

Anybody read or heard a statement from Dwight Yorke or Steve Bruce exonerating Blackburn Rovers Football Club yet ?

Whether the situation obliges them or not, at least one of these two individuals owes the club a reciprocal favour.

Surely Steve Bruce wouldn't let his son play for a racist club.

[Morph]

Have Mr Dwight Yorke's actions now set a precedent for ethnic minority sportsmen and women in this country? Why should BRFC be the only club to enjoy being singled out for inspection under the political correctness microscope?.........

(Yadda yadda yadda, etc.)

.........By the way, I sometimes imitate a monkey when I'm playing with my kids........... Sorry, Dwight wouldn't have any idea about that would he.

I wonder if he considered whether his spot of evangelicism might stir up a bit of racism rather than eradicate it?

It's like Thenodrog and Blue Phil fell in love and had a baby...that could type...and so forth.

p.s. No offence to all concerned, I'm just messin with ya. The board has been way too heavy of late.

[Tris]

I think that DY and SB have taken an opportunity to jump on a bandwagon wagon, one to deflect attention from the fact that he is a bad footballer and father, and the other from the fact that his side threw away a golden opportunity for an away win.

(Since '75 Rovers 5- 2 Plymouth Argyle)

As such a long standing and loyal Rovers fan, I assume you were at the game at St Andrews in DY's first season with the Rovers (24.08.02).

When the Birmingham fans (and lots of them) chanted, repeatedly and loudly, that his son would never see him, due to the kid being blind.

I also assume - because as you say, Dwight Yorke is both a bad footballer and a bad father - and you knew all that 2 1/2 years ago - that not only did you join in with the Birmingham fans to taunt Yorke about his blind child, but you slated his football prowess as well.

Because that day, he was somehow a different human being to the Dwight Yorke we saw on Sunday.

Or perhaps because he wore Blue and White that day you didn't say a bad word about him when he scored the winner in the 1-0 defeat of Birmingham.

You call yourself OnePost but after 4 you need to make a 5th to describe how you felt about this LET report after Yorke won the points that day.

Birmingham City 0 Blackburn Rovers 1

BLACKBURN Rovers dished out a harsh lesson in the art of Premiership survival thanks to the intervention of former Villan turned hero Dwight Yorke.

For 90 arduous minutes, Yorke saw his every touch booed by boisterous Birmingham fans determined to give him flak for his previous connections with arch Midlands rivals Aston Villa.

But it was the ex-Trinidad and Tobago international who ultimately enjoyed the last laugh after his first league goal in a Rovers shirt wrecked the Blues' big day.

This criticism goes for a lot of people who have sounded out in this thread, it's harsh of me to pick on someone who has only made 4 posts, although those 4 posts have been in the last 2 days.

Yorke had the right to ply his trade at Ewood as a Brum player on Sunday in the normal way. Just as the vile abuse he took at St Andrews as described above was totally unacceptable. there is no justification for the racial abuse he suffered in Blackburn.

Even if it was only one person.

And there is even less justification for the implicit criticism he has received since, which seems to justify the one (guilty) persons actions on the basis that Yorke invited it.

He had a right to react in the way he did - anyone who has suffered an emotional headrush caused by direct and hurtful provocation knows that. To the people who say he should know better as a professional footballer, that's crap.

I defy any of you not to react if your wives or kids are verbally abused in public. It's the same emotion a coloured person protects - it's untouchable.

Yorke could have gone in with fists flying - the court reports he approached and said "you souldn't be doing that, it's wrong" and the ###### up tw@t who is now guilty of racial abuse by his own admission carried on wagging the finger and abusing Yorke to his face.

Yorke made no physical contact. That must have required considerable self control.

Yorke walked away, clearly upset, and explained to the next two human beings he came into contact with (Clemence and Bruce) what had happened to him.

I totally fail to see how this is his fault.

At the same time I abhor the media exposure this has forced on Blackburn Rovers - but it is NOT Yorke's fault.

Edited November 25, 2004 by Tris

[Alan75]

Firstly let me clarify, that I do not condone the actions or events of last weekend at Ewood Park. What happened was totally out of order.

Racial abuse take place up and down the country. However Rovers have been singled out by the media, because they are a premiership club and the events took place in front of tv cameras. Whilst events at Rovers have been highlighted throughout the world, very little publicity has been given to Mansfield Town who are facing an FA enquiry into allegations that their fans racially abused Boston United players and caretaker manager Carlton Palmer last weekend.

I wonder if there would have been so much publicity, if Steve Bruce had acted in the same manner as Boston United who put their complaint in writting to Mansfield Town regarding the abuse towards their black players and manager. Boston have also written a letter of complaint to the FA. requesting action.

I dont suggest that SB, should have brushed the events under the carpet, but maybe more diplomatic action, could have prevented all the media frenzy, regarding a couple of idiots in a crowd of 20,000 plus.

[Roaming Rover]

I

Yorke made no physical contact.

Are you refering to last Sunday here Tris, or Yorke's time at Ewood