Yorke And The Fans

[Morph]

Why if AESF, is wrong and whites are not now seen as the 'oppressed' race in this country did so many normally tolerant, upstanding members of the community vote for the BNP?

Because they are morons, and gullible, easily led morons at that. If that seems like a sweeping generalisation, well it probably is, but if you vote for the BNP you are a cretin of the highest order. Simple as.

Why do people accept that ethnic minorities were/ are repressed but any notion of whites being hard done by is laughed at and seen as racism???

Because this "notion" runs contrary to the experience of 99% of the white people living in Britain. Outside of the pages of the Scum and the heads of mindless racists, very very few white people in this country are, or ever will be, hard done by due to the colour of their skin. The idea that they are is a fantasy.

The police, the government, schools infact anyone in the public eye are scared to death of not being PC. They bring in ridiculous acts like banning Christmas cards (Red Cross), and Christmas Carols in schools as they don't want to offend any Minority races, yet this is the main reason for the growing ill feeling towards Asians.

The first part of your statement I agree with, but not the second. Whilst I accept that PC culture may actively be contributing to the growth of racism in this country by re-inforcing the idea of an "us and them" society, I still feel the main causes of growing antagonism between different ethnic groups are organisations such as the BNP and right wing rags like the Scum and Mail, who care less about the effects their racist invective will have than they do about circulation figures. Racial harmony never sold an extra newspaper, racial tension does.

If we are going to eradicate racism, we need the same rules on all sides. We will get nowhere if the police force employed only whites on the colour of there skin, however they are saying if two candidates where equal in all aspects but one was white and one was black they should employ the black candidate.

Where are they saying that? Could you provide a link, as I am pretty sure that positive discrimination is illegal in this country.

We need to get rid of the PC brigade and all be allowed to celebrate our own festivals and live our lives as we want

No, we need to get rid of racism, and the people who stir it up to further their own interests. We need to address the issues which enable racism to flourish (such as poverty, education, urban regeneration, a greater understanding of each others cultures, and the promotion of a shared sense of cultural identity, be it at local or national level). Finally we need to stop looking for someone else on whom we can blame all our ills, or at the very least start blaming those who are ultimately responsible - our elected leaders, rather than the poor sod next door, who is in exactly the same boat as us whatever the colour of his skin.

Edited November 25, 2004 by Morph

[mikeyliu]

Why if AESF, is wrong and whites are not now seen as the 'oppressed' race in this country did so many normally tolerant, upstanding members of the community vote for the BNP?

Why do people accept that ethnic minorities were/ are repressed but any notion of whites being hard done by is laughed at and seen as racism???

The police, the government, schools infact anyone in the public eye are scared to death of not being PC. They bring in ridiculous acts like banning Christmas cards (Red Cross), and Christmas Carols in schools as they don't want to offend any Minority races, yet this is the main reason for the growing ill feeling towards Asians.

If we are going to eradicate racism, we need the same rules on all sides. We will get nowhere if the police force employed only whites on the colour of there skin, however they are saying if two candidates where equal in all aspects but one was white and one was black they should employ the black candidate.

We need to get rid of the PC brigade and all be allowed to celebrate our own festivals and live our lives as we want

Jesus, for the last time! how are you being hard done by? has Christmas being ruined for you now that you don't get your cards from the Red Cross anymore?

Have you ever had to experience or had anything comparable to a crowd, whilst standing behind a group of asians in the same england shirt as their own, bellow at the top of their voices "I'd rather be paki than a turk" ? Been on the recieving end of a beating because of where your from by somebody who harbours the same opinions and bitterness like what I'm reading now?

"oh but they get this, get housed there, special treatment.." Just grow up and make your own way in the world without bleating on about how the state won't hold your hand anymore, you are not oppressed, they are.

And if you're voting for the BNP, than you're not a tolerant upstanding person.

[mikeyliu]

Morph...

crikey, agree with all that you just said. and you beat me to it using more clever!

[baarree]

In Europe we have Sinterklaas on December 5, and he has helpers which are known as Zwarte Pete, they are white people with their faces covered in black makeup and dressed up in costumes, they go around giveing presents out to the children, all good fun and the politicaly correct race issue never gets a mention, it's nice to have freedom.

[OnePost]

Tristran, I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't have the mental capacity to upset me verbally, as evidenced by the warped logic quoted above. However, make no mistake if you ever verbally abused my wife and kids I'd most certainly knock you out and dance on your head, all with absolute self control.

Please don't address me directly again.

If you don't want people to address you directly then surely the best plan would be either to stick to your username or not post such ridiculous nonsense.

Manchester Blue

The part of the post that you have quoted was made in response to Tristran's challenge........

I defy any of you not to react if your wives or kids are verbally abused in public.

And since the rest of his post was directed at me personally I responded directly to Tristran personally.

Hope that's cleared up the "ridiculous nonsense" for you.

[waggy]

well from my vantage point in the jw lower darwen end side,i have had the misfortune off watching yorke limber up many times,he does for some silly reason take an age with his stretching,but he always enjoys a bit off banter with the away fans.

the utd fans used to give him the full works,songs of priase and a bit off ribbing about jordan and pete andre.i have also seen him take plenty off stick from other fans,calling him,abusing him which he just brushed off with his whiter than white smile.

i am in two minds wether yorke used the events off sunday,to gain publicity or to deflect from the serious bad reception he deserved.the thing is any football fan who is in there 30/40's has been in crowds were taunting off black player's was the norm.most would have joined in,i know i did - but these days are long gone

[Manchester Blue]

I may be wrong but as I understood it the first part of Tris' post was directed at you, the second part was a general post hence, 'I defy any of you not to react' which was a fair point. If you choose to take that as a personal challenge then i'd think that says more about you to be honest. This is a message board and if you can only respond with threats of physical violence then it's a poor show.

[joey_big_nose]

I fear that we're living in a society now where the law is not applied equally among people of different races.

yes that's correct, and that's because society does not treat people of different races equally

Black people can go around calling people 'n*ggers', but if a white person does it, then it becomes a crime.

correct, but I'm sure you understand that language changes depending on the context or the inference. are you a a smiths fan who's anti euro or are you a fan of the anti-european smiths? I don't get it.

Would the police take seriously a complaint from a white person if he reported that a black guy had called him a 'White b*stard'?

no, would you take it seriously?

If a white guy uses the term 'Black b*stard' - he faces a fine and even perhaps a possible jail term for the offence.

This is not to condone any racist abuse towards blacks. But it's almost as if racism towards white people is acceptable, whereas any racism directed towards so-called minorities is deemed to be worse.

you don't get it don't you? as the dominant race in this country then this "inverse racism" that you are so concerned about has little or no effect on you personally, are you going to be denied opportunities, or your dignity or be chased in the street because of your ethnicity?

Do you feel hard done by in the same way that Shaun WPhilllips feels hard done by? Can you go about your daily routine without having people throw bananas at you?

The downtrodden in our society today are white working class males IMO...

IMO the research and effort that you have put into digging out old crime reports and then singling out the injustice from the colour of their skin reveal nothing but borderline racism and seething resentment. And way to go for pointing out some obscure lyric from some obscure song from some obscure pop group, that's explosive evidence in proving that the tide is indeed flooding in.

Amazing!

A simply awesome analysis of this whole inverse racism thing. It's actual existance is minute yet it is conjoured up by people as pervasive in society.

Just a afer thin argument for prejuidice to hide behind.

Don't mean to be abusive AESF but the views you are purporting are just unsustainable and, to me anyway, extremely distasteful.

[thenodrog]

The closest corollary I can think of (although it is by no means an exact one) is the way in which certain white people choose to define themselves as "aryan", despite the negative connotations carried by the word due to the weight of history. If someone of a different skin colour (actually, make that any skin colour) described me as aryan I would probably be pretty offended by it, but to some people the term is a source of pride.

I think you'll find that white people are usually referred to as 'white caucasian'. Aryans are summert else entirely, and are the true Iranians. Go here and read it but read (7) in particular. If I am wrong with the above let me know cos I'd hate to die in ignorance.

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/aryantruth.htm

Anyway whatever I do find your comments in the last sentence odd to say the least. Why should you take offence because of what you are? You cannot help your origins, is this a new and unique kind of self-racism? Maybe a Michael Jackson reverse operation may serve to sooth your rather warped conscience / misplaced sense of guilt.

[blue phil]

Why if AESF, is wrong and whites are not now seen as the 'oppressed' race in this country did so many normally tolerant, upstanding members of the community vote for the BNP?

Because they are morons, and gullible, easily led morons at that. If that seems like a sweeping generalisation, well it probably is, but if you vote for the BNP you are a cretin of the highest order. Simple as.

Superb analysis of why people have voted for the BNP up and down the country in both working class and even middle class areas . "Because they are morons......." . The extent of that analysis , Morph , persuades me that the drunken Rovers fan did his impersonation of an ape in front of the wrong person !

Have you ever considered other factors , such as an utter desperation on the part of the voters at the failure of the mainstream parties in any way to represent them ? Could it possibly be a protest vote against the incompetence and complacency of the 3 main parties in areas not just related to race but also of housing and crime for example ?

Could it possibly be that there is indeed a truth in their perception that "minorities" (and in some areas they are NOT minorities) are getting more than a fair share of the cake ? And that when it comes to issues of law and order that the police do not pursue their enquiries as vigorously against Asians or Blacks ? Or are you so single minded that you won't even cotemplate the possibility?

Maybe , as in Holland , there is the beginning of the realisation that the multi cultural experiment isn't working . Maybe those at the bottom end of the social scale are the first to realise that bacause they have to live with the realities of "positive discrimination" and mass immigration ; certainly the chattering classes in the suburbs will be the last to face the truth .

Now I don't consider myself to be a "moron" - quite the opposite in fact - and I have never voted for the BNP but there are very good reasons for white working class people in areas such as Blackburn , Bradford , Burnley etc ad infintum , to turn away from Labour . This scumbag of a party know where the "bloc" vote comes from and that's where they divert the resources . Not just a perception , but fact .

If you lived in a w/c area of b'burn for a decade or two I could guarantee that your analysis of why people vote for extremists might be a little less judgemental and a lot less sanctimonious . Well maybe .....

Edited November 25, 2004 by blue phil

[Paul]

The closest corollary I can think of (although it is by no means an exact one) is the way in which certain white people choose to define themselves as "aryan", despite the negative connotations carried by the word due to the weight of history. If someone of a different skin colour (actually, make that any skin colour) described me as aryan I would probably be pretty offended by it, but to some people the term is a source of pride.

Anyway whatever I do find your comments in the last sentence odd to say the least.

I suspect that Morph would be offended because of the associations of the word Aryan with the Third Reich and Nazi Germany. It would certainly be the first thought that came to my mind.

[Morph]

The closest corollary I can think of (although it is by no means an exact one) is the way in which certain white people choose to define themselves as "aryan", despite the negative connotations carried by the word due to the weight of history. If someone of a different skin colour (actually, make that any skin colour) described me as aryan I would probably be pretty offended by it, but to some people the term is a source of pride.

I think you'll find that white people are usually referred to as 'white caucasian'. Aryans are summert else entirely, and are the true Iranians. Go here and read it but read (7) in particular. If I am wrong with the above let me know cos I'd hate to die in ignorance.

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/aryantruth.htm

Anyway whatever I do find your comments in the last sentence odd to say the least. Why should you take offence because of what you are? You cannot help your origins, is this a new and unique kind of self-racism? Maybe a Michael Jackson reverse operation may serve to sooth your rather warped conscience / misplaced sense of guilt.=

I was very specific with the phrasing of the comment, thenodrog. If you read it slowly, or get someone else to read it slowly to you if your mypoia is playing up again, you will see that I used the phrase "some people choose to define themselves as aryan". I never said they used the term correctly, in fact I made no mention of the origins of the word at all. Do you deny that some white people call themselves aryan (correctly or not), or are you just having difficulty with the intricacies of the English language?

[92er]

Scotty's posts are always good or excellent.

[thenodrog]

It'll be interesting to see how emotionally scarred he is by the whole incident, the next time he leaves a club in the early hours with blond totty on each arm.

Bit of lateral thinking here folks? Just a thought but could it be that Dwight Yorke is racist too? He must really prefer white people cos I cannot recall ever seeing him leave a club with black totty on his arm.

ps he really should try it sometime.......

[blue phil]

I thought the term Aryan had its origins in India . Nothing to get offended by it just because Adolf used the term . He called himself German as well didn't he ..?

What i always find strange is why whites are often described as Caucasion wherever they come from .

[blue phil]

Scotty's posts are always good or excellent.

Slurrppp..

[Paul]

Definition

Aryan

adjective

relating to white people from northern Europe, especially those with pale hair and blue eyes, who were believed by the Nazis to be better than members of all other races

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

[adopted scouser]

If you read it slowly, or get someone else to read it slowly to you if your mypoia is playing up again,

or are you just having difficulty with the intricacies of the English language?

Genius

[Morph]

Superb analysis of why people have voted for the BNP up and down the country in both working class and even middle class areas . "Because they are morons......." . The extent of that analysis , Morph , persuades me that the drunken Rovers fan did his impersonation of an ape in front of the wrong person !

Phil, if you have never voted for the BNP, then I am not calling you a moron. That seems pretty straight forward to me. To be perfectly honest I don't really care what you think of me or my political opinions, they are my own and I'm not about to change them. What does strike me as ever so slightly ironic is that you would take me to task for belittling the political beliefs of BNP supporters, and in the same breath belittle my own opinions on the matter by calling me an ape* (at least I think that's what I could discern from your bizarre ramblings). Funny how you ignored the rest of my post though. Anyway, I must dash, I can hear a commotion in the kitchen. I think the pot must be calling the kettle black again (go on, you know you are dying to twist that into some quasi racial nonsense, you'll feel better once you do).

*Don't worry, I won't report you to the chief constable.

[Morph]

If you read it slowly, or get someone else to read it slowly to you if your mypoia is playing up again,

or are you just having difficulty with the intricacies of the English language?

Genius

That one...well, fair enough

[blue phil]

I think we're all partly right on this one !

ARYAN : Word History: It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *rya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian rn (ahr), "(Land) of the Iranians," from the genitive plural of r, "Iranian"). The variant *rya- is found unchanged in Sanskrit, where it referred to the upper crust of ancient Indian society. These words became known to European scholars in the 18th century. The shifting of meaning that eventually led to the present-day sense started in the 1830s, when Friedrich Schlegel, a German scholar who was an important early Indo-Europeanist, came up with a theory that linked the Indo-Iranian words with the German word Ehre, "honor," and older Germanic names containing the element ario-, such as the Swiss warrior Ariovistus who was written about by Julius Caesar. Schlegel theorized that far from being just a designation of the Indo-Iranians, the word *arya- had in fact been what the Indo-Europeans called themselves, meaning something like "the honorable people." (This theory has since been called into question.) Thus "Aryan" came to be synonymous with "Indo-European," and in this sense entered the general scholarly consciousness of the day. Not much later, it was proposed that the original homeland of the Indo-Europeans had been in northern Europe. From this theory, it was but a small leap to think of the Aryans as having had a northern European physiotype. While these theories were playing themselves out, certain anti-Semitic scholars in Germany took to viewing the Jews in Germany as the main non-Aryan people because of their Semitic roots; a distinction thus arose in their minds between Jews and the "true Aryan" Germans, a distinction that later furnished unfortunate fodder for the racial theories of the Nazis.

[Paul]

Just goes to show it's always worth checking asecond reference book!

[tashor]

However, make no mistake if you ever verbally abused my wife and kids I'd most certainly knock you out and dance on your head, all with absolute self control.

My kind o' poster you are buddy

There again I'm a rabid racist bully-boy...

Nice to see another intolerant fascist join us here...

You take the Yids and I'll deal with the Coons...

WELCOME...................

[Manchester Blue]

However, make no mistake if you ever verbally abused my wife and kids I'd most certainly knock you out and dance on your head, all with absolute self control.

My kind o' poster you are buddy

There again I'm a rabid racist bully-boy...

Nice to see another intolerant fascist join us here...

You take the Yids and I'll deal with the Coons...

WELCOME...................

Look at how big I am I can say whatever words I want and don't care who I offend. You ###### prick. See we can all do it.

[blue phil]

Manc . I don't think you've quite grasped that our Tash has a style all his own . An aquired taste you could say - a bit like Dali or some other talentless wonder . Lighten up a bit........