Savage Signs

[Brownie]

Birmingham have again showed their hypocrisy (and definition of loyalty) by cancelling Forsell's loan from Chelsea due to his injury. Whilst I would expect most clubs to do this, in the context of their comments about Savage looking after no. 1, and the fact he was a long term target of theirs for a permanent move, I think it shows exactly how they view their players, and they shouldn't be in the least bit surprised when they get the same treatment back.

Whys should they pay another player's wages whilst he is injured ?

[RovertheHill]

I don't think they should. Football is fickle. Players look after No. 1, clubs look after No. 1., managers look after No. 1 (yes Mr. Bruce).

But, if you are in the media every day for the last week accusing a player of putting his own interests first, telling him it "stinks" and is a "disgrace", then to clearly demonstrate the same behaviour is hypocrisy.

[MCMC1875]

The memory is a bit distant, but isn't this saga similar to Rangers tapping up Hendry and Newcastle tapping up Shearer?

[blue phil]

I tell you, we are winning every battle to get Savage.

John Williams' new offer was well structured and his statement brilliantly balanced yesterday.

Not surprised that you believe Williams is performing brilliantly (again !) - maybe he's finally learnt the lessons from the past transfer fiascos in which the price we've paid clubs has been consistently over the top ....

Unfortunately , I believe he hasn't . Our desire to see Savage (a player under contract at another club) play at Ewood has been shouted from the rooftops for what seems eons now . Who does that benefit , then , when it comes to negotiating a price ?

If we are to make a third bid , which seems likely , then it will almost certainly be quite substantially more than what any neutral would argue is a fair price for this 30 year old . Some would argue that we've already gone past this price already...

No ; in this battle of wits , I'm afraid it is the brummies who are winning . Maybe it's time for us to walk away . I'd like to see him here - but not at any price .

[bellamy11]

I tell you, we are winning every battle to get Savage.

John Williams' new offer was well structured and his statement brilliantly balanced yesterday.

Not surprised that you believe Williams is performing brilliantly (again !) - maybe he's finally learnt the lessons from the past transfer fiascos in which the price we've paid clubs has been consistently over the top ....

Unfortunately , I believe he hasn't . Our desire to see Savage (a player under contract at another club) play at Ewood has been shouted from the rooftops for what seems eons now . Who does that benefit , then , when it comes to negotiating a price ?

If we are to make a third bid , which seems likely , then it will almost certainly be quite substantially more than what any neutral would argue is a fair price for this 30 year old . Some would argue that we've already gone past this price already...

No ; in this battle of wits , I'm afraid it is the brummies who are winning . Maybe it's time for us to walk away . I'd like to see him here - but not at any price .

Absolutely spot on.

I think our actions have alienated Brum to such an extent that we'd have to pay a ridiculous price for Savage now. I'd be very surprised if they come to a fair agreement with us now, and I'd be very annoyed if we paid over the odds for him.

[philipl]

I think you are both looking at it from a completely incorrect perspective.

Rovers are a small Premiership club.

Over the last few seasons, the Rovers management have identified the players they have wanted and convinced the CEO and the Board of their value.

Time and time again, John Williams' and the management have got their man despite intense competition from other Prem clubs for the likes of Dickov, Matteo, Ferguson, Emerton.

Which players have we publicly bid for and not got in the end?

It is not John Williams' job to select which players the club buys. It is his job to help make certain the acquisition targets arrive.

Yes, JW is doing a brilliant job.

As for alienating Brum, Dunn was tapped up long before he went to Brum. At least Savage can make his own judgement about which manager he would prefer to work for based on real actual experience.

Whereas Dunn was a straight tapping up which went on whilst Steve Bruce was watching his son Alex at the Rovers' Academy.

[Scotty]

No ; in this battle of wits , I'm afraid it is the brummies who are winning . Maybe it's time for us to walk away . I'd like to see him here - but not at any price .

I agree that Brum are holding all the cards at the moment. However, come the 30th January it might be a different story. Faced with the prospect of having a player who clearly doesn't want to play for the club rotting in the reserves may force Birmingham's hand into accepting a smaller bid.

There's certainly no way I can see that Savage will play for Brum again. So, as long as no-one else comes in for him, they will be forced to sell him to us eventually.

[Parasyte]

Blackburn hold an ace in the form of Savages contract at brum. What is he on now? £25-30,000? He has got 4 years to go on that contract - no matter how stubborn Brum make themselves out to be, they will not pay Savage that much to 'rot in the reserves'. Its just a silly way to needlesly lose a lot of money. I bet Blackburn will go back with an offer around 20-25th with a minimally increased bid, and after more slagging off from Brums high ranking idiots, they will accept it anyway.

[bellamy11]

I've been a bit sceptical about the move for a week or two now. It's my opinion that Brum don't value Savage at £3.5m - they'd simply like us to spend all of our money in one go rather than get Savage cheaper and maybe strengthen elsewhere.

All the noises coming from Brum suggest a big defiance and we're blamed for unsettling him. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if they sold him to somebody else for less than what they want now from us.

The transfer window means that Sav is playing a dangerous game. If he hasn't forced his way out by the end of Jan then he is completely in limbo. A player of his age and mentality would want want regular football and he would be too proud not to give it his all. If Bruce freezes him out for a short while then brings him back he could be successful in having Savage playing normally again.

In the FFT richlist, David Sullivan and David Gold are worth a combined £1bn. I think they could easily sit out his contract and pay him every week if it meant spiting us.

I hope that JW is playing the right game. I'd love Savage, but not for £3m or over. At the moment Brum still have the upper hand.

[Parasyte]

I dont think they'd do it to spite us. They know full well we havent done anything out of the ordinary, its savage they have a problem with, so the 'selling to the other club for less' argument, IMO, doesnt stand.

And £1b they may be worth, but if they wernt as seemingly tight as they appear, they could afford to bring in players of a higher stature than Clinton Morrison and David Dunn. Whatever happens, Savage will not see out his contract, and he wont be in the reserves for too long.

[philipl]

If Brum want a face-saving £3m headline-grabbing deal, Rovers can easilly accomodate by agreeing to trade the the tail of the Dunn transfer deal which is increasingly unlikely to be paid because of Dunn's injuries.

That way a "£3m" deal can rather straightforwardly be agreed- the £2.5m on offer now plus cancellation of £500k of Brum indebtedness from the Dunn transfer.

[blue/white]

's

I see many of us are having that same sinking feeling... I too have become disillusioned with this transfer...

Scotty-

There's certainly no way I can see that Savage will play for Brum again. So, as long as no-one else comes in for him, they will be forced to sell him to us eventually.

The paranoid in me is certain others are monitoring the situation and might decide to pounce to take advantage of Brum's attitude towards BRFC...

maybe if we offer to take back Tiny? Anyway, I hope that the assumed 3rd. offer isn't much more than already on the table-- let's not lose our heads here !!!

[Parasyte]

Does anyone know what the clauses in the sale of Dunn was, or even just the rumours?

[philipl]

I have just found a report which said the Rovers managed to get £4m in cash up front. The other £1.5m was based on bonuses for Brum staying in the Prem, Dunn staying with Brum (and perhaps appearances) and Dunn winning another England cap (I think).

Interesting to see more paralels and contrasts with the Dunn transfer. Dunn decided he couldn't work with Souness but was still on a long contract with Rovers. He didn't hide those facts and showed it by rejecting the offer of a better and extended contract.

Savage has not rejected a Brum contract or criticised Brum or its management but has said things which suggest he much prefers to work with Mark Hughes now he has come into club management.

John Williams took the position of Rovers being unwilling sellers.

Brum have come out with a load of macho stuff about how no player who has wanted out of Brum has ever benefitted from the move blah, blah.

The gulf in quality of people between Rovers management and Brum is enormous.

Edited January 6, 2005 by philipl

[vindaloobob]

Brum have come out with a load of macho stuff about how no player who has wanted out of Brum has ever benefitted from the move blah, blah.

i think that's entirely plausible. look at the rubbish they've bought off us - it's hard to imagine, should any of them leave brum, that they will be going anywhere but the championship or below.

[broadsword]

The whole thing's geddin on me doo-dahs now - I do wish it'd get sorted one way or another.

[Paul]

Brum have come out with a load of macho stuff about how no player who has wanted out of Brum has ever benefitted from the move blah, blah.

i think that's entirely plausible. look at the rubbish they've bought off us - it's hard to imagine, should any of them leave brum, that they will be going anywhere but the championship or below.

I think i'm right in saying that with the obvious exception of Damien Duff that's pretty much true of any recent departure (last 10 years or so) of Rovers. The grass is always greener......................

[T4E]

Brum have come out with a load of macho stuff about how no player who has wanted out of Brum has ever benefitted from the move blah, blah.

i think that's entirely plausible. look at the rubbish they've bought off us - it's hard to imagine, should any of them leave brum, that they will be going anywhere but the championship or below.

I think i'm right in saying that with the obvious exception of Damien Duff that's pretty much true of any recent departure (last 10 years or so) of Rovers. The grass is always greener......................

Out of interest, are you including Shearer in the camp that did or didnt?

[Brownie]

Savage played 83 mins for reserves tonight with R5 sending a reporter !

"live from solihull"

were not words I ever thought I would hear spoken on 5 live of a Thursday night. I didn't hear the bloke give the score though, he was simply on Savage watch and reckoned he was loving it.

Apparently it was 1-1

[John]

Savage running around pis*ing himself for the reserves this evening, apparently we had a scout at the match!

Only ones looking stupid are the co*** on the Brum board. Still hoping we will get him. Brum just have to face it that he does not want to play for them and wants to join the Hughes revolution.

[Alan75]

SAV RESERVE REPORT

[pksrover]

SAV RESERVE REPORT

It seems like they have updated the player photo regarding Sav...

in according to the reporter, from that brum page, it was 50/50 with applause and booing when Sav was subbed after 83 mins...and they had a banner with the text "U let us down Sav"

well, I can't imagine Sav playing for brums again...so I hope after the weekend Rovers will come with another decent offer, and then that Brady-thing (she's not the brightest is she?) come to her senses and accept that Sav is a player!

[Manchester Blue]

On the contrary I think Brady is very clever and even worse very pig-headed. I just can't see Brum doing a u-turn and accepting a low offer from us. In the same regard as much as i'd like us to sign him I think we are paying over the odds at £3.5m.

[LondonBluenose1976]

Hi All,

Not sure if you're interested in the opinions of a Birmingham fan but I have been reading this thread with interest in recent days and thought I'd chuck in my $0.02.

Some random thoughts:

1) Savage:

There's no doubt that he'll be gone before the end of the transfer window. Sullivan/Brady can be very obdurate but they are not stupid - there is no point having an asset taking 25k/week out of the club and diminishing in value between now and the summer. However (and rightly in my opinion), they want to have a bit of fun in the meantime and make something of a fool of Savage. As a fan I feel very let down by the way he has manipulated the club through the media. Players want transfers - it happens all the time - but there are ways and means of securing them that don't involve concocting tales of parental illnesses

2) Our board:

There seems to be some disdain for them on this site and I can understand that. Some of their hyperbole about the Blackburn bid has been unnecessary, especially as it's structurally not dissimilar to what we initially offered for Dunny. That said, they have been superb for Birmingham and I think they are trying to protect the club's interests and (largely speaking) do the right thing. There's a long history of chatter, press release, chatter, press release, chatter, transfer between Williams/Brady and until recently I had believed this would follow the same pattern. However the prevailing consensus in Birmingham is that our board are so infuriated with Bowen's "tapping up" of Savage that we'd rather sell him to anyone else...so Everton could be a likely destination. Interesting week ahead in any case

3) David Dunn

What a footballer! Ask any Birmingham fan and they'd tell you he's our best player by a million miles. Playing in a free role (nominally on the left side of midfield), he has been devestatingly effective when fit. And there's the rub; for the lad's sake I hope a solution is found to his hamstring problems. Whatever the thoughts on Dunny, the Premier League is a better place when he is playing. His skill, touch, vision and effervescence mean he could be one of the best players ever to have played for Birmingham. Fingers crossed that like Owen and Giggs he can get over his hamstring problems

4) Damien Johnson

Incredibly hard working, Bruce's favourite player (never, ever misses a game) but seems to have lost the ability to beat a man around the outside. When I first saw him at Blackburn, he had the ability to drop his shoulder and beat a man...seems to have lost that now. However he does add something with his work-rate and tenacity. Long term my view is that right back is his position, rather than on the wing

5) Martin Taylor

Has barely played. Cunningham and Upson are very good and he's struggled to get past them. He came in at right back for a while last season and was poor, although in the couple of games he played at centre-half he looked composed and distributed the ball well. Too early to judge, although needs to win over the fans

Good luck for the rest of the season; like you I shall be watching the Savage saga unfold with interest!

[Cocker]

You make some very good points indeed. I totally agree with you about Dunny, if he could stay fit he would be awsome.

I used to like Johnson but since watching rovers v brum at ewood and he stuck two fingers up at me, I have changed my mind.

Tiny - Ha Ha Ha - Jokes on you

Back to the topic, I dont mind taking Savage off you but not for more that 2.5m

All the best (just as long as its below us)