Savage Signs

[stuwilky]

Hardly looks like conclusive proof to me.

I don't think anything underhand has happened, in any case, certainly nothing untoward that you wouldn't expect in any other transfer.

The only thing I see is David Sullivan bleating to the press in an undignified manner. When Liverpool continually tapped up Duff did we complain? No. There's nothing to say that we have tapped Savage up anyway.

So answer my questions about how Savage knows certain things which he wouldn't if he hadn't been tapped up.

I understand that you want to defend your club, but if you honestly believe that Savage hasn't been tapped up then you are a fool.

As for not complaining about Duff being tapped up by Liverpool, prehaps you should have.

IF muppet sullivan had proof he would complain to the FA most certainly. Even if the punishment isnt a big one urely he would feel better getting one over on us.

He accuses us of unsettling the player, yet him and brady have been running to the sun every day, where has there been all these statements by rovers? We released the "weve made a bid" followed by "its been rejected" and then the same for the second bid.

Mr Sullivan is just acting like a spoilt 5 year old, once his toys have been collected perhaps he can get on with running a football club.

[Radagast]

philpl, do you know where I can read any of Bowen's comments? I'd be most interested in hearing an insider's view on Brum's state of affairs.

[RovertheHill]

It has been stated by David Sullivan in his interview, it has nothing to do with Internet rumours as much as you would like to think so.

If Hughes/Bowen/Blackburn are the innocent party in this sorry affair then could you provide explanations for the following.

1) How did Savage known the details of BRFC's offers to BCFC in advance of them being sent.

2) How did Savage know what renumeration he would be offered, in order to negotiate a pay rise with BCFC's board [the £12,000 figure mentioned by DS in the Sunday Mirror]

As for your assertations that Savage is not worth any more than you are offering can you point to any other premiership player who is a regular for his club, has 4 years on his contract and is payed c.40k a week who his available for a similar fee?

Your club is in the wrong in this case and is rightly taking a beating in the press.

I'm sorry but you are acting like a statement from Mr Sullivan is fact. Hardly likely to stand up in court. In fact, if he thinks it is true and has the evidence, then let's see you in court. This nonsense about not taking it any further seems to me like he has no proof. So either put up, or shut the eff up and stop conducting "business" via the Sun.

[philipl]

Taken from a Norwich web site:

"Before Mark joined Reading, new Welsh national team coach Mark Hughes had given him responsibility for the Welsh Under 21 team. Mark was promoted to Assistant Manager for the Welsh national team before joining Steve Bruce in a similar role at Crystal Palace in June 2001. Mark followed Bruce to Birmingham City (again as Assistant Manager) in December 2001 where they led the Blues to promotion to the Premiership via a Play-Off final victory over the Canaries. Birmingham's presence in the top flight and the struggles involved with that led to a club vs country row at the end of August 2002 when Bruce suggested that Mark retires from his position with the Welsh Under-21 squad. Eventually Mark stepped down from his role with Wales. Bowen and Birmingham parted company towards the end of June 2004 due to a contractual dispute."

The BBC report:

"Bruce wants Bowen to concentrate fully on his coaching duties with Birmingham.

Hughes had hoped to find some middle ground with Bruce, but that seemed to have been dashed this week when the Blues manager said there could be no compromise. Although disappointed with the situation, Bowen says he understands the position and insists there is no rift between himself and Bruce.

"Bowen said: "Steve Bruce is one of my best friends in football and we have always had a good relationship. There is no fall-out with him about the Wales issue, not one cross word has been exchanged between the two of us. The situation with Wales is that naturally I am disappointed because I have been doing the job with them for the past two years. But Birmingham City has to be the priority over everything and I understand that."

"I've never quit on anything but it is a fact that Birmingham have said they need me with them full-time in the Premier League at this juncture. But as things stand I have to concentrate 100% on club matters and there is not an issue with Steve Bruce or anyone at the club about that."

Two days later, the BBC reported Birmingham boss Steve Bruce saying:

"I cannot see any sort of compromise at all that can happen. We will issue a statement later in the week. Basically, I need him here. He is essential to me. I cannot have him away from the club. Next month, for instance, Wales are away for 10 days. It's bad enough him being away for a day let alone a week."

With Wales enjoying one of their best run of results for 10 years, Bowen is understandably reluctant to sever his Welsh ties. "I was gutted not being in Finland, but really chuffed by the result and the performance. I just hope something can be worked out. I missed being involved, but I know Eddie Niedzwiecki stepped in and did an excellent job - we all know what coaching routines we do. I can't really comment on what is going to happen now, but I have talked to Steve Bruce and he knows how important Wales is to me. But I understand that there is a lot of work for me here at Birmingham, certainly at the beginning of the season. I just hope something can be worked out so that I can be involved for the next match with Italy."

And although Bruce is sympathetic to Bowen's plight of missing out at one of the most exciting times in Welsh football history, the Blues manager is standing firm. "I can understand Mark Bowen's disappointment as he has done a good job with the national side. But his allegiance must be to our club. I cannot see any way of him even joining the Welsh a day before a game."

Taken from the Football Association of Wales:

"Birmingham manager Steve Bruce, who was against Bowen keeping both roles, said: "I can't see any way we can compromise."

"Wales manager Mark Hughes wanted Bowen to at least continue in some way. When Birmingham made it clear they did not like the arrangement, even if it meant him not joining the international squad untill the day before the match.

"But Bruce wants Bowen's services 100% of the time to help Birminghams cause in the Premiership. Bruce said: "The club will be issuing a statement on this matter later in the week but I can't see any sort of compromise at all on this matter because, basically, I need Mark here at Birmingham. He is essential to me."

Of course, in the end, Mark Hughes triumphed and Mark Bowen came back as the Welsh Assistant Manager before following Sparky to Blackburn. I cannot find any quotes at the time that Bowen left Birmingham but I remember that Bruce said a few less than pleasant things and I have a recollection that Bowen made a tart riposte about the Brum set-up.

I guess that for Bruce this is deeply personal- he cannot stand being beaten by Mark Hughes again although it is interesting to read in Bruce's pre-Christmas diatribes, he was blaming agents and Everton for turning Robbie savage's head!

Edited January 9, 2005 by philipl

[broadsword]

So answer my questions about how Savage knows certain things which he wouldn't if he hadn't been tapped up.

I understand that you want to defend your club, but if you honestly believe that Savage hasn't been tapped up then you are a fool.

As for not complaining about Duff being tapped up by Liverpool, prehaps you should have.

I can't answer your questions about "certain things" because I've not seen anything to say that Savage knew details of any salary package in advance. Maybe it got lost amidst the welter of comments from Mr Sullivan getting all bitchy and tarty.

Whatever's gone on, I still think that Sullivan has made your club something of a laughing stock. Is this media-campaign meant to persuade Savage to stay?! It might be a "big" club but its owners are mickey mouse.

[philipl]

The BBC quoting Sullivan saying he wants to leave Birmingham. But the moment Savage uses the same argument Sullivan gets all upset.

[thenodrog]

The BBC quoting Sullivan saying he wants to leave Birmingham. But the moment Savage uses the same argument Sullivan gets all upset.

Simple really. 'Small man big desk' scenario.

[Duffers]

QUOTE (Brummie Logic @ Jan 9 2005, 16:53 )

So answer my questions about how Savage knows certain things which he wouldn't if he hadn't been tapped up.

I understand that you want to defend your club, but if you honestly believe that Savage hasn't been tapped up then you are a fool.

As for not complaining about Duff being tapped up by Liverpool, prehaps you should have. 

I hate this attitude that just beause Savage wants to leave the mighty Birmingham then he must have been tapped up.

Maybe he does just want more money - so what? He wouldn't be the first he won't be the last. Maybe he just wants one more pay day so just get on with it and shut up.

[rover6]

As for your assertations that Savage is not worth any more than you are offering can you point to any other premiership player who is a regular for his club, has 4 years on his contract and is payed c.40k a week who his available for a similar fee?

40k a week. Somehow I find it hard to believe that Rovers would be able to top that by any significant value. So where do the stories that we're going to hike up his wages coming from? Birmingham.

[92er]

I'm fed up of 30 year olds coming to my club for their last big pay-off.

I also don't want players only to come because we've tapped them up and we're offering more than they're currently earning and that's their only reason for coming.

[JamieUK]

I'm fed up of 30 year olds coming to my club for their last big pay-off.

I also don't want players only to come because we've tapped them up and we're offering more than they're currently earning and that's their only reason for coming.

I think its blatently obvious that it's not money that is the main reason makes him want to come to Rovers?

[modes98]

It has been stated by David Sullivan in his interview, it has nothing to do with Internet rumours as much as you would like to think so.

If Hughes/Bowen/Blackburn are the innocent party in this sorry affair then could you provide explanations for the following.

1) How did Savage known the details of BRFC's offers to BCFC in advance of them being sent.

2) How did Savage know what renumeration he would be offered, in order to negotiate a pay rise with BCFC's board [the £12,000 figure mentioned by DS in the Sunday Mirror]

As for your assertations that Savage is not worth any more than you are offering can you point to any other premiership player who is a regular for his club, has 4 years on his contract and is payed c.40k a week who his available for a similar fee?

Your club is in the wrong in this case and is rightly taking a beating in the press.

Savage knew the offers??? If he knew them he must be psychic. I am quite sure that if we had talked to him mr sullivan would have been on the phone stright away to the fa complaining. Also why would a player that wants to leave (ie. transfer request) tell the selling team these details. Your and your clubs logic is really way off.

Reports place savages wages at £30k. When mr sulivan leaves your club will be taking a beating not ours!

[LondonBluenose1976]

Without getting caught in a slanging match:

- Sullivan is publically quoted as saying Savage has mentioned that Rovers have offered him 12k/week more than his current contract. Could be an exaggeration, but that's the source of his annoyance

- My view (*and this is purely personal and cannot be substantiated with quotes before anyone asks ), based on every interview I have seen/heard with Savage in the last 3 years, is that he is one of the most avaricious people I have ever seen, even by football's standards. Money is practically an obsession with him, and while you can't fault him for taking what has been offered during his career, I am certain that he would not move if not being offered a pay rise. Working with Bowen and Hughes will be a collateral benefit, but no doubt money is at the core. As and when he signs for Blackburn, I'm sure you'll start to note this side of his character

[FourLaneBlue]

Whether or not Rovers have tapped up Savage...big deal either way.

Have Birmingham been whiter than white in their past dealings? You know they haven't.

Another thing...if Sullivan gets the price he actually wants for Savage you can bet your bottom dollar that the last thing he'll be thinking about is any talk of 'tapping up', he'll be taking the money thank you very much. Money talks.

It's still up to Savage to say where he wants to go. No side really looks stupid, it's just a load of stuff and nonsense which is part of the haggling process.

It'd be nice if some (and, don't get me wrong, it's certainly not all) of the Birmingham fans could actually stop trying to rant on about what a 'big' club it is for one day of their life. It's very sad, just as when other fans try to do it. It's a bit like a bloke going around saying what a big knob he has. Funny how it's the ones who use it least who seem to brag the most! Just as how it's the most underachieving clubs whose fans brag the most about how 'big' their club is and yet their trophy cabinets are usually so very, very empty recently...Real 'big' clubs are too busy trying to win things to be saying how 'big' they are to all and sundry.

Nobody seems to have come out of this affair smelling of roses and as I've said before Savage's behaviour is a disgrace coming so soon after signing a new contract and bringing his parents to the attention of the press as an excuse was a shocking move on his part. However...so what? That's what football is like these days. Money, greed, power battles...welcome to the Premiership. It stinks at times but it's the way it is now.

Edited January 10, 2005 by FourLaneBlue

[Morph]

I understand that you want to defend your club, but if you honestly believe that Savage hasn't been tapped up then you are a fool.

As for not complaining about Duff being tapped up by Liverpool, prehaps you should have.

I feel we would have had a rather stronger case with regard to the actions of Birmingham City during the Dunn transfer, but that's not the point. Like it or not, tapping up is part and parcel of the modern game. Every club does it, every club (bar a tiny super-rich majority) suffers as a result of it at some time or another. When it's their own club doing the tapping, fans are, unsurprisingly, more than happy to let it slide. when it's one of their own players getting tapped by someone else; obviously it's a shameful practice which their club would never stoop too. All this "well you tapped up player X", "yeah, well you tapped up player Y before that" is naive, self deluding nonsense. Save the faux righteous indignation for the managers and the players; they have to pretend there is a veneer of respectability surrounding the transfer market, even if we the fans know that ain't the case. It's all a bit like American wrestling really, and some of you seem to be trying very hard to persuade yourselves that what you are seeing and hearing is actually the truth.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

For anyone who didn't see the quotes from the porn baron David Sullivan in the tabloids yesterday, he had quite a bit to say on the Savage issue again.

The man who has made his fortune from publications such as 'Lovebirds', 'Playbirds' and The Sunday Sport says that Blackburn Rovers have been guilty of: "Outrageous, disgraceful and, quite frankly, despicable behaviour."

"I can only put it down to the naivety of their manager Mark Hughes and the bitterness of his assistant Mark Bowen, who left Birmingham on extremely bad terms."

Sullivan went on to say: "Do you really think that Savage wants to play for Blackburn because he thinks they are a better club than Birmingham? What a load of crap. It's about greed, it's purely down to money."

"As far as his parents are concerned, they may have had a few problems, but he's used that as an excuse without looking on a map and working out how far Wrexham is from Birmingham or Blackburn."

Steve Bruce, the man who has been in charge of Sheffield United, Huddersfield, Wigan and Crystal Palace - the club that he walked out on to join Birmingham - says that he's "sickened" by Savage's behaviour and lack of loyalty after signing a new four-year contract in the summer.

Perhaps not surprisingly given who Birmingham's chairman is, the club have been conducting their personal business through the media for quite some time. They have consistently been trying to paint Rovers as the guilty party in the long-running saga.

With the help of their friends in the media, Birmingham let it be known that they offered Savage a chauffeur-driven car to ferry him back and forth to visit his parents.

In other public relations moves, Karen Brady has been using her sweet feminine charms to give the impression that the club has been doing everything in its power to help the miscreant player in his time of need.

As Paul said earlier on this thread:

I'd like to see Rovers pull out of the bidding now and leave Savage and Birmingham to enjoy each other's company.

A link to the full quotes from Mr Sullivan in the Sunday Mirror is below:

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/sport/tm_obj...-name_page.html

[mattyboy6000]

Without getting caught in a slanging match:

- Sullivan is publically quoted as saying Savage has mentioned that Rovers have offered him 12k/week more than his current contract. Could be an exaggeration, but that's the source of his annoyance

- My view (*and this is purely personal and cannot be substantiated with quotes before anyone asks ), based on every interview I have seen/heard with Savage in the last 3 years, is that he is one of the most avaricious people I have ever seen, even by football's standards. Money is practically an obsession with him, and while you can't fault him for taking what has been offered during his career, I am certain that he would not move if not being offered a pay rise. Working with Bowen and Hughes will be a collateral benefit, but no doubt money is at the core. As and when he signs for Blackburn, I'm sure you'll start to note this side of his character

good post.

we don't need him. let's move on.

[roversmum]

As far as I'm concerned, they are all welcome to each other. No wonder Mark Bowen wanted to get out.

[thenodrog]

So answer my questions about how Savage knows certain things which he wouldn't if he hadn't been tapped up.

I understand that you want to defend your club, but if you honestly believe that Savage hasn't been tapped up then you are a fool.

'Tapped up' is an odd description. Surely any club would look pretty damned stupid if they registered bids for players that they had not contacted either officially or unofficially or through a third party to find out if those players were actually interested or not in being transferred in the first instance. If savages parents lived in Walsall and/or we were offering less money it would be pointless even thinking about signing him.

Saying all that I still dont like the way that footballing contracts are all one way to the benefit of the mard-arse, totally detached from reality, namby pamby players. Savage should have to buy his way out / forfeit something like in any normal business situation.

[Flopsy]

or hand in his 4 week notice like us mere mortals - accepted we could be sacked/made redundant but we would (well my contract says) I would have 4 weeks notice at least from the company

[samtheozzy]

God I hate Birmingham, average manager, average players but hey they are such a "massive" club. Still, you'll get 3.5M pounds for Savage when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

But it does looks like they genuinely want Savage to stay. The latest story (here) has the Brummy Gits chairman saying the the door is ajar for Savage to retract his transfer request).

[joey_big_nose]

Saying all that I still dont like the way that footballing contracts are all one way to the benefit of the mard-arse, totally detached from reality, namby pamby players.  Savage should have to buy his way out / forfeit something like in any normal business situation.

Um, i think you have got that totally wrong.

If everything was setup in the players favour then it WOULD be like it is for us mere mortals. They would be able to give the four weeks (or two if they had been employed by the club for less than a year) and walk out and sign for whom ever they pleased and whoever pays top dollar. The Beckhams, Ronaldinhos and, dare i say it, Savages are restrained by these regulations.

The only players who could be seen as being protected by the current rules are the likes of De Pedro, Amoruso etc but even then it would be extremely difficult for Rovers to fire them under current general regulations that apply to you or me. Dont forget they would have access to the whole "wrongful dismissal" ways of appeal and compensation.

If the market was a free one then the players would own a much larger slice of the pie than they already do. This is not something I particularly symapathise with- they already have far too much money and influence than is good for the game- but thats the way it would be.

Edited January 10, 2005 by joey_big_nose

[DE.]

Savage signed a 4 year deal with Birmingham in the summer, he now wants out. I don't think anybody here disagrees Birmingham's backroom staff, players, chairman, board memebrs etc have a right to feel upset about Robbie's sudden U-Turn.

However, Sullivan's antics in the Sunday Papers are a disgrace to his reputation and to his club's reputation. The Birmingham fans as a majority appear to back this kind of press campaign against Savage and Blackburn Rovers, I myself can be considered biased, but many of the neutrals I've spoken to have agreed Sullivan is a fool for airing his dirty laundry in the oh so respectable sunday papers.

He has been referred to even as an "|_|l71|\/|473 n00b" which is apparently rather extreme.

If Sullivan wants to cry to the newspapers about Blackburn's "dirty dealings" then he is free to do so and none of us can stop him... but in the long-run it is getting him nowhere, and only serves to diminish whatever reputation he has. Most managers give newspapers short quotes, Sullivan is more or less giving the media entire interviews and of course they're eating it up happily. It is obvious he has lost all respect for Savage(and by the looks of it never liked him anyway (if you liked a guy, would you be so ready to slag him off?)) and would be quite happy never to see the lad wear a Birmingham shirt again.

Savage has come out of this looking the worst, under-fire from his manager and chairman, getting his family involved, lame excuses, and now a real possiblity that this transfer will not go through, essentially leaving him in the sh*t, big time. Just because some people are leaving the door open for him doesn't mean he'll be instantly forgiven. I can't see Brucie treating Sav the same ever again, nor the Brummie faithful.

Would I want him in a rovers shirt? Not for 3.5M.

Oh, and the heightism stuff was classic...

"Believe me, I get a lot of heightism remarks but you are what God made you.

"Dwight would have to be cut off at the knees for a week and I would have to walk round with a black mask to know how each of us feels."

Right.

Edited January 10, 2005 by DE4life

[thenodrog]

Oh, and the heightism stuff was classic...

"Believe me, I get a lot of heightism remarks but you are what God made you.

"Dwight would have to be cut off at the knees for a week and I would have to walk round with a black mask to know how each of us feels."

Right.

Am I right to assume that by saying that you think that it must 'feel' worse being black than being a midget DE4life?

[Radagast]

Please, Drog, let it go just this once. Pleeeease. Edited January 11, 2005 by Radagast