Ferguson Hands in Transfer Request

[philipl]

The Guardian report on the stalemate. Very clearly there has been no movement but there is speculation that Rangers need to ship four players out of Ibrox during this window to get the wage bill down.

That is the language of a business which thought it had bid £440,000 cash.

Not the stance of a business which is capable of offering £2.4m now (the amount needed now if the fondly rumoured bid of £4.5m is true which frankly I doubt) or of one remotely serious about negotiating on the terms of the seller.

The relevant points are:

-Murray restructured the Rangers finances three months ago so no doubt has little if any personal room of manoeuvre to put any more of his own cash in now

-virtually nobody joined him in investing so he has ended up with 92% of the company and an under-financed result

-the remaining £23m debt was restructured to become long term but no doubt at a cost to Murray personally

-Murray stated that Rangers would be debt free within the year

-Rangers LOST £29m last year; I have no idea how they are going to turn last year's loss into a surplus big enough to wipe the debts- that is a turn around in corporate performance of over £50m

- Rangers' turn over in a Champions League season was under £40m. That will have fallen by £10m to £15m this year with the failure to make the Group Stages.

- even with our poor gates and league position, Rovers in 2004/5 will be 25% larger a business than Rangers are

Rangers could not afford Ferguson when they embarked on this malarky and they cannot afford him now.

That is why the word GUARRANTEED has come into Williams' language.

He knows that Rangers' financial future is far from secure and the success of the Murray restructuring is dependent upon winning the SPL title this year to an alarming extent.

From what I can see, no Rangers supporter believes they will be able to do the decent thing and swap Ferguson for the original transfer fee. They either do not believe Ferguson is going back or have kidded themselves Rovers will take a £2m+ hit on the deal.

The legal structure of Blackburn Rovers could make that a dangerous thing to do (the responsibilities on the Trustees) even if the club wanted to which it clearly doesn't.

My guess is that Hughes identified Savage/Ferguson as the midfield formation he wanted and is being as stubborn and resolute about keeping Ferguson as he was about securing Savage. The Board may well alienate their Manager as well if they let Ferguson go on the cheap.

If Ben Thatcher can go back into the Man City team, what is the problem with Barry Ferguson re-joining the Rovers squad?

Two points to the Rovers fans saying let Ferguson go on the cheap:

- will Rovers now get the quality of players within this window they need? Without being ripped off?

- does Ferguson make a difference to the team? How many £500,000 place money prizes will be lost through his transfer and how greater is the percentage chance of relegation if he goes?

Those financial factors compound the calculation of the valuation of the player from a Rovers' standpoint. Is anyone going to argue with me that Rovers will probably finish at least two places lower without Ferguson and increase the chance of relegation from, say, 15% now to 30% without him.

Factor those numbers in and next season the probability is that losing Ferguson now costs us over £3m in consequential losses.

I don't think this is an "ordinary" case of keeping an unhappy player. Rangers are saying "Can't pay, No pay". Rovers are saying "No pay, Can't sell"; not "No pay, Won't sell". Rovers have little choice but to keep Ferguson for the next few months if they don't get their valuation.

[FourLaneBlue]

philipl - you seem to be suggesting that letting Ferguson leave for 4.5million would be letting him 'go on the cheap' when to be honest it's blindingly obvious to anyone who has seen him since coming to Rovers is that he isn't worth much more than that. I'd say 5million at best and that would be before all his wringing of hands/woe is me the poor wee Glasgy lad never been away from home rubbish. We'll do well to get that now for such a wee babby as Bazza...

What we paid in the past do not mean we can get other clubs to be as stupid as we were when we paid over the odds. It would have been a bit like expecting Southampton to pay us back 7.25million for Kevin Davies when we offloaded him just because we had had the stupidity to do so.

Ferguson is not the same hot property he was when we bought him either. Sure, he may be the same player but he has the lost a certain je ne sais quoi. Not sure there is a word to describe what he no longer has... Ambition? Potential (to be a great player in a major league)? Certainly he's no longer got any va va voom about him. Maybe he has just lost his mojo??? Dunno...but he's gone from a player who Arsenal and Liverpool looked at (among others) to an Average Joe who even Souey doesn't want now he signed Faye. Ferguson may be the same player he was when we bought him...but his reputation and standing aren't. That's why, in a competing field of one, Rangers can pay less for him than we did.

You seem to have certainly convinced yourself that Rovers hold all the cards but I don't agree...if Ferguson leaves for less than we paid I think it will be proved that we don't. If we get back the same money then you are right...Rovers played their hand brilliantly.

Can't see it though...I expect Ferguson to leave and for us to certainly get no more than 5million.

Edited January 26, 2005 by FourLaneBlue

[jim mk2]

Barry Ferguson returning to Glasgow suggests one or more of three things to me:

1. He knows he isn't good enough for the PL

2. He doesn't have the courage to stick it out in England, at Ewood or elsewhere, and prove his worth.

3. He wants the money and the easy option of "starring" in the SPL

It's nothing to do with football.

You forgot that his wife doesn't like it down here and wants to go home and wives always have the final say . . . don't they ??

To repeat myself, it will take only a small increase in the offer from Rangers for Ferguson to be on his way.

It is unrealistic for Rovers to expect to recoup £7 million for a player they paid too much money for in the first place.

[Yorkshire Blue]

wives always have the final say . . . don't they ??

Well, now we know who wears the trousers at Jim's place.

[broadsword]

incontinence pants more like it ...

[Paul]

Barry Ferguson returning to Glasgow suggests one or more of three things to me:

1. He knows he isn't good enough for the PL

2. He doesn't have the courage to stick it out in England, at Ewood or elsewhere, and prove his worth.

3. He wants the money and the easy option of "starring" in the SPL

It's nothing to do with football.

You forgot that his wife doesn't like it down here and wants to go home and wives always have the final say . . . don't they ??

To repeat myself, it will take only a small increase in the offer from Rangers for Ferguson to be on his way.

It is unrealistic for Rovers to expect to recoup £7 million for a player they paid too much money for in the first place.

To be honest Jim, I don't believe the family issue. I'd agree family should always come first, however the arguement for high-profile sportsmen/women is a different. Ferguson has to stick it out for six months, at worse two years or so. Most families would sit down and discuss this before reaching a sensible solution. Rovers fans are presented with the easy option - one that shows Ferguson to be a weak and spineless individual.

If the family issues are true the Fergsuons are rather immature people with too much money who can't hack it in the real world. While the rest of us get on with life.

[Duff's Minder]

agreed, I don't believe the family thing for a minute. If his family is unhappy then it wouldn't be so urgent. They could go back to glasgow right now and he could join then in the summer.

I still think that something else has happened which means he's decided he can't play for Rovers anymore. No idea what it is mind.

[jim mk2]

Barry Ferguson returning to Glasgow suggests one or more of three things to me:

1. He knows he isn't good enough for the PL

2. He doesn't have the courage to stick it out in England, at Ewood or elsewhere, and prove his worth.

3. He wants the money and the easy option of "starring" in the SPL

It's nothing to do with football.

You forgot that his wife doesn't like it down here and wants to go home and wives always have the final say . . . don't they ??

To repeat myself, it will take only a small increase in the offer from Rangers for Ferguson to be on his way.

It is unrealistic for Rovers to expect to recoup £7 million for a player they paid too much money for in the first place.

To be honest Jim, I don't believe the family issue. I'd agree family should always come first, however the arguement for high-profile sportsmen/women is a different.

Footballers wives or "family issues" have often forced players to seek moves.

A few years ago, David Unsworth engineered his exit from West Ham back to the North West with Everton so that his children could "play with their cousins more" !!

Ben Thatcher's missus wants to move because their house in Manchester has been burgled twice, Colin Hendry followed his disgruntled wife back to Scotland when he moved to Rangers and Robbie Savage (allegedly) sought a move to Rovers so that he could "nearer his parents".

When the missus barks, footballers jump !

[waggy]

the fee is 6 million either the people come up with the cash or he rots in the stiffs/sorry 2nd 11.

and will someone explian why wee softie wants to take his clan back to a place were he could not take his wee one's swimming without them being abused.or has he that much cash now that he can afford to close the baths whilst his family splash about

[broadsword]

[A few years ago, David Unsworth engineered his exit from West Ham back to the North West with Everton so that his children could "play with their cousins more" !!

You forget that he stopped off at Villa ... he really did take some stick for leaving them.

[RevidgeBlue]

Really can't understand why people think letting Ferguson go for £4.5m and taking a £2m - £3m hit on him would be "good business". (Did we pay £6.5m or £7.5m?)

The Board are TALKING a good game and adopting the correct stance by insisting he will not leave for a penny less than £6m. Now let's see them back those words up in practice over the next five days.

[den]

Really can't understand why people think letting Ferguson go for £4.5m and taking a £2m - £3m hit on him would be "good business". (Did we pay £6.5m or £7.5m?)

The Board are TALKING a good game and adopting the correct stance by insisting he will not leave for a penny less than £6m. Now let's see them back those words up in practice over the next five days.

Agreed Rev.

It's the same scenario as Savage wanting to leave Brum. Savage did get his way, but Rovers had to pay over the odds. Savage wasn't worth £3.1m - but so what? We wanted him badly enough to pay the asking price, I wonder if Rangers want Ferguson that badly?

[Bobby G]

we paid 4 million or so till now,with another 2.5 or so due in August.After that it was incentive based.

So if they pay 4 million cash and cancel the debt,we would have broken even.

[Paul]

Footballers wives or "family issues" have often forced players to seek moves.

A few years ago, David Unsworth engineered his exit from West Ham back to the North West with Everton so that his children could "play with their cousins more" !!

Ben Thatcher's missus wants to move because their house in Manchester has been burgled twice, Colin Hendry followed his disgruntled wife back to Scotland when he moved to Rangers and Robbie Savage (allegedly) sought a move to Rovers so that he could "nearer his parents".

When the missus barks, footballers jump !

Each of those situations is different:

Unsworth - proof footballers and their wives have too much money

Thatcher - I don't know the story

Hendry - wasn't Mrs H very ill, or had been, at the time?

Savage - just a smoke screen and he's NOT running away from the limelight

Ferguson - spoilt brat who's unable or not willing to hack it in the PL. If I can't be a star I'll go back to Rangers and be the great returning hero.

[den]

we paid 4 million or so till now,with another 2.5 or so due in August.After that it was incentive based.

So if they pay 4 million cash and cancel the debt,we would have broken even.

Well my understanding is that Rangers offered to cancel the debt and added a further £500.000.

It's quite a leap to get another £3m out of them.

[broadsword]

Denise Hendry was well at the time Colin moved from Rovers. It was when they moved back down here she went in for plastic surgery and got very ill indeed.

There were a lot of potentially libellous runours flying around about why Hendry was so keen to play for Rangers ...

[youandwhosearmy]

and those were?

[waggy]

well i met ch in st tropez during the 1998 world cup and he hated hodgson with a passion i think that was the reason

[philipl]

Ben Thatcher's missus wants to move because their house in Manchester has been burgled twice, Colin Hendry followed his disgruntled wife back to Scotland when he moved to Rangers and Robbie Savage (allegedly) sought a move to Rovers so that he could "nearer his parents".

Let's see which clubs in the North West of England hold the registrations of Thatcher and Ferguson on 1 February, shall we?

I don't take this homesick guff- its about business dealings. Ferguson is worth more to Viola under his nose in Glasgow than he is in England.

[RangerRover]

Barry Ferguson returning to Glasgow suggests one or more of three things to me:

1. He knows he isn't good enough for the PL

2. He doesn't have the courage to stick it out in England, at Ewood or elsewhere, and prove his worth.

3. He wants the money and the easy option of "starring" in the SPL

It's nothing to do with football.

You forgot that his wife doesn't like it down here and wants to go home and wives always have the final say . . . don't they ??

To repeat myself, it will take only a small increase in the offer from Rangers for Ferguson to be on his way.

It is unrealistic for Rovers to expect to recoup £7 million for a player they paid too much money for in the first place.

As I've already stated on two previous occasions, Derek Johnstone, former Ranger and personal friend of Barry Ferguson reiterated that Barry's wife and kids have settled in well. It's the player who wants to return. I've heard nothing in the past fortnight to convince me otherwise.

Phil - apart from Ricksen, Klos and possibly Arveladze, my guess is that Rangers have already shipped out all the top money earners - the reason why we've struggled throughout last season and the early part of this term.

Edited January 26, 2005 by RangerRover

[cletus]

Denise Hendry was well at the time Colin moved from Rovers. It was when they moved back down here she went in for plastic surgery and got very ill indeed.

There were a lot of potentially libellous runours flying around about why Hendry was so keen to play for Rangers ...

...... i heard a rumour (an alleged rumour i hasten to add) that big Col had been playing 'hide the sausage' & got caught by his missus, who gave him the ultimatum "move back to Sconny, or else"

[philipl]

Just done a quick scan of the Glasgow papers- the indications are that Rangers are going to sell the Serbian who cost them £1.2m in the summer to either a German or Russian club and chuck in Michael Ball in the deal for Rovers to try and achieve something to breach "the country mile".

Ricksen will go to the Premiership this summer on a Bosman, Rangers are already fighting to hang onto Klos and as for Arveladze, I don't know.

For all those Rovers supporters saying we won't get our price, I can only repeat that in these situations, the reluctant selling club doesn't keep the player but it does get its price.

If the price is not met, it keeps the player who leaves later but not to the club who originally bid as the player is usually too angry or loses faith with the bidder for putting him through some weeks of hell and still not being able to secure him.

There is nothing in the Ferguson situation which would suggest that Rovers will lose out TWICE- both on player and price.

[Bobby G]

Logic says that Phillipl,

I hope you are right though!

[Scotty]

If Ben Thatcher can go back into the Man City team, what is the problem with Barry Ferguson re-joining the Rovers squad?

Let's just nip this one in the bud shall we before Philip uses it as yet another redundant argument in his Ferguson crusade.

First of all, Ben Thatcher was signed for £100,000 - no £6.5m fees flying about here.

Thatcher's house was indeed burgled twice during his stay in Manchester. Not surprisingly, his family got a tad peeved with this and decided they'd rather move back down south. Thatcher then held talks with his club and they agreed that he could have a free transfer in January. He didn't go against the wishes of the board or the manager, and he explained his situation fully to anyone who'd listen.

I've no idea why his move to Fulham broke down but he will be welcomed back into the City squad because all the fans understand his reasons for wanting to leave and can sympathise with his situation.

A totally different scenario to Barry Ferguson.

[Fife Rover]

With regard to the rumour about Michael Ball being offered as a makeweight in Rangers offer for Ferguson. PLEASE GOD!! DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN ! Even if Ferguson goes (and I personally do not want him to) we MUST NOT AT ANY PRICE accept that useless piece of apology for a footballer into our Football Club.

My reasons for this opinion? I live in Scotland and see Rangers on the TV every week. I dont know how long exactly Ball has been a Rangers player, but it is quite a few years now and in all that time I cant recall seeing him in the Rangers side more than a handful of times. This is mainly due to his being unavailable by injury for at least 90% of the time he has spent at Rangers, but in the very few games he has played he has been absolute crap as a left back. Rovers simply have not got a player on their books at the moment that could rival him for the title of "worst left back ever seen".

I may also add that Rangers have been trying for the last 3 years to off-load him onto any unwary club they could find using the fact that when he was an Everton player he was being talked of as a possible England player. That was BEFORE he was injured!