[Archived] Why Fergie Quit Rovers

[LeftWinger]

rovermatt

its only a big game for the scottish league and for its Irish followers, anywhere else it is meaningless.

Christ its not even about pride its simply about religion, I know this as I have actually been to numerous old firm games having lived at Ibrox in the mid 80's.

Our own derby game on Sunday is every bit as big, but this has meaning, there is no religion its simply PRIDE and HATE about each others club.

I would take Rovers v Bumley over ANY other derby, but that is just me a wee simple laddie from Blackburn

I disagree. Surely the intensity (the central point of any derby game) is the thing that makes it so special? Yes the football may not be up to scratch, and certain reasons for the rivalry are distasteful, but the occasion and historical significance are second to none. These are the things that make derbies the games the are.

The claim that Sunday's cup tie (hardly a clash between footballing contemporaries) is bigger than the Old Firm game is slightly misguided.

What makes Rovers vs Burnley a bigger derby in my eyes is one simple fact. Rangers and Celtic play each other as many times in a season as Rovers play Burnley in 25 years. If you lose in the Old Firm, you lose the bragging rights for maybe 6 weeks. If we lose to Burnley- it could be 20 years before we play them again! Defeat is unthinkable!

[Rovermatt]

I agree with you on that. We must not lose. It's that simple.

[bb3]

What makes Rovers vs Burnley a bigger derby in my eyes is one simple fact. Rangers and Celtic play each other as many times in a season as Rovers play Burnley in 25 years. If you lose in the Old Firm, you lose the bragging rights for maybe 6 weeks. If we lose to Burnley- it could be 20 years before we play them again! Defeat is unthinkable!

Spot on,imagine if this was third or fourth Rovers/Burnley game this season,and we knew we would play again next season four times,just wouldn't feel the same would it?

Rangers/Celtic is bigger in terms of bigger crowds,known the world over etc,but I just can't see the fans looking forward to it in the same way Rovers/Burnley fans are to this game.

[American]

Christ its not even about pride its simply about religion, I know this as I have actually been to numerous old firm games having lived at Ibrox in the mid 80's.

Your ###### it is. It deeply offends me to read @#/? like this when I come from a mixed religion Scottish family. I can promise you religion will be the last thing on the mind of any Old Firm supporter in my family or that I would consider a friend on Sunday.

EDIT: Yes I am expecting the 'witty' retorts of "Oh, you're right, they're everything in Glasgow is peachy."

Just out of curiosity, how many Protestant members of your family are Celtic supporters and how many Catholic members are Rangers supporters?

[streakyb]

Just out of curiosity, how many Protestant members of your family are Celtic supporters and how many Catholic members are Rangers supporters?

I think that religion had a part in the early days but now its not the main factot. Firstly, If there is still a religous divide between the clubs this is down to the areas they draw their support from. Not a case of I am Catholic so will support one not the other. You support Celtic because you live in a celtic area not due to you religon.

I also feel half of the rivalry now between these clubs is not derby rivalry. It is the same that exists between ManU and Arsenal. the are the only real challengers for the title so this is also a big part of the derby atmosphere.

[Scotty]

Just out of curiosity, how many Protestant members of your family are Celtic supporters and how many Catholic members are Rangers supporters?

I think that religion had a part in the early days but now its not the main factot. Firstly, If there is still a religous divide between the clubs this is down to the areas they draw their support from. Not a case of I am Catholic so will support one not the other. You support Celtic because you live in a celtic area not due to you religon.

I also feel half of the rivalry now between these clubs is not derby rivalry. It is the same that exists between ManU and Arsenal. the are the only real challengers for the title so this is also a big part of the derby atmosphere.

No offence mate but that's just @#/?.

[streakyb]

No offence mate but that's just @#/?.

Yet another well formed argument to prove that I am wrong.

Yes, 90% of it its derby rivalry, but some is the fact they they are pushing for the title.

[Scotty]

No offence mate but that's just @#/?.

Yet another well formed argument to prove that I am wrong.

Yes, 90% of it its derby rivalry, but some is the fact they they are pushing for the title.

Ah, so it's gone from half to 90% in the space of a few minutes!

Religion has a huge part to play in the rivalry and the two clubs support is not restricted to just Celtic or Rangers areas. For example, half of Ireland support one of the two clubs.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Scotty

[streakyb]

Ah, so it's gone from half to 90% in the space of a few minutes!

Religion has a huge part to play in the rivalry and the two clubs support is not restricted to just Celtic or Rangers areas. For example, half of Ireland support one of the two clubs.

Religon pays in part more historically than currently. Religon governed immigration patterns into this coutry from Ireland. Therfore people in ireland tend to support clubs who are based in the areas to which theire relative emigrated to.

yes, religon pays a part. But I think it is partly geograhical in nature now. I think people consistenly overdo the religous aspect. Rangers and Celtic fans hate each other for the same reason as we hate Dingles. It is football, Not religon(although some wld say football is a religon). It is just the religous and sociogeographic factors play a bigger part up there.

[broadsword]

But ... religion is intertwined with geographical location and club allegiance (if what you're saying is right).

So ... isn't the choice of what club you support down to religion, at least in a transitive sense?

[streakyb]

But ... religion is intertwined with geographical location and club allegiance (if what you're saying is right).

So ... isn't the choice of what club you support down to religion, at least in a transitive sense?

Yes, but my point is that its not purely religous, that the gegraphic locations of fans play as big/if not bigger part than the religous beliefs of the fans.

I think I should have spent more time and worded my original post in the way I meant it to read.

[broadsword]

So it's not so much Protestants v Catholics as West versus East?

Hmm ... there must be at least a proportion of teh fans who just see it in religious terms.

I remember an Aberdeen fan I used to know saying they went to a game versus Rangers and their fans were singing: "Eff the Pope".

Against Aberdeen?!

And what about Rangers fans urging Gazza to play the lash or whatever tehy call it?

[Rovermatt]

'The Sash.'

It's a tune performed here on the 12th of July. It's mainly played by tattoed, skin-headed, 'kick the Pope' bands, many of whom have the word 'Rangers' incorporated into the name of their little group.

As for the religious thing, that is particular to the Glasgow derby. Politics, class and sheer sporting rivalry all play a part in places like Buenos Aires, Rome and Liverpool

Edited February 18, 2005 by Rovermatt

[Wide-Bhoy]

Religion plays a massive part in the rivalry. I would say that it has been diluted slightly over the years because Ireland has settled down a bit, but to say that it geographical is nonsense. The biggest factors are your friends & family.

[Wide-Bhoy]

Your ###### it is. It deeply offends me to read @#/? like this when I come from a mixed religion Scottish family. I can promise you religion will be the last thing on the mind of any Old Firm supporter in my family or that I would consider a friend on Sunday.

I don't think religion will be on anyone's mind when the game kicks off but it can play a massive part in your upbringing, shaping your views & ultimately what team you support. It didn't with me because even though my mum was religious my father had no interest in football, if my dad had been a bigot there is a good chance I would have been one to.

[mgh567]

The facts are - fergson was not good enough for the Premiership. he was off the pace from the start and despite the fans doing everything they could to see the best in him, he has to go down as one of the biggest non events in rovers history. Tough tackling midfielder? Don't kid yourself. i never even saw him get his shirt dirty, let alone get a tough tackle of any worth in. we did a good bit of business getting 4 million plus for him in the end. if he wants to play in a chip shop league, let him. he was crap anyway.

[1864roverite]

rad

sorry if I offended you

My view is simple. I have listened to the many tunes about Gers and Celts and every single one refer in some way to bigotry and religion. That cannot be disputed as all we hear is positives and negatives about "King Billy".

One team flies the tricolour the other the "UJ".

One supports the IRA t'other doesnt.

one is catholic and one is protestant - although i accept the attempts to change this have repaed dividends ie MO JO etc.

[McClarky]

Lets just forget about this clown, he was never as good as his brother anyway. I would rather have Savage as our midfield general on Sunday so it looks like we are all winners out of the whole sorry affair.

It shows how committed he was to Rovers that after 18 months at the club he didn't know who are main rivals were. Then again, he is well known for being as thick as a plank. If he had still been at Rovers he might have spent Sunday night drinking round Padiham in a Rovers shell-suit if previous experience is anything to go by.

[Eddie]

Sure the atmosphere is pretty intense I'll give you that. But then so are many other derby games (Barca Madrid say.)

Barca v Real isn't a derby you nin whit.

Actually in a sense it is, at least in France you can have such a thing.

You can have a local derby ie Blackburn Burnley

Then you can also have a derby that is simply a match with a lot of tradition and history behind it where the clubs have become intense rivals ie Arsenal Manchester United

I don't know if in English you can have the same thing, this is odd as I'm a native English speaker, just expressing an opinion really.

What about the Breton derby (although Nantes isn't technically in Brittany any more)?

No I mean they do have local derbies, but there are also big games that though essentially they are not derbies because of location, are because of history and tradition.

This is where the local derby is seperated from just the derby.

[Jan]

OK

So how do I fit in?

Born Protestant whose family (not immediate- grandfathers and uncles- daddy had too much sense) were all masons and members of the Orange Lodge.

Father doesn't like football, and if he supported anyone it would be Kilmarnock (well, someone has to)

How did I come to be a Celtic supporter???

And I can assure you that when I take my seat on Sunday (flight was booked before we drew Bumley)- religion will be EXTREMELY far from my thoughts.

[Radagast]

Christ its not even about pride its simply about religion, I know this as I have actually been to numerous old firm games having lived at Ibrox in the mid 80's.

Your ###### it is. It deeply offends me to read @#/? like this when I come from a mixed religion Scottish family. I can promise you religion will be the last thing on the mind of any Old Firm supporter in my family or that I would consider a friend on Sunday.

EDIT: Yes I am expecting the 'witty' retorts of "Oh, you're right, they're everything in Glasgow is peachy."

Just out of curiosity, how many Protestant members of your family are Celtic supporters and how many Catholic members are Rangers supporters?

None that I know of, but that wasn't my point in the first place. Of course religion would have had an affect on which side of the family supported which team in years gone by, but of my living relatives none support either Old Firm team for any reason other than being brought up by parents that supported the team as well.

I'm not saying that religion plays no part in the Old Firm support (that would be idiotic), but 1864's assertion that it was purely about religion rubbed me the wrong way - as I said originally, there are many fans on both sides of the divide that don't give a toss about religion. Unfortunately, the offensive voices speak the loudest.

By the way, I hate discussing the Old Firm on this message board.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Radagast

[roversWASmylife]

Just out of curiosity, how many Protestant members of your family are Celtic supporters and how many Catholic members are Rangers supporters?

None that I know of, but that wasn't my point in the first place. Of course religion would have had an affect on which side of the family supported which team in years gone by, but of my living relatives none support either Old Firm team for any reason other than being brought up by parents that supported the team as well.

I'm not saying that religion plays no part in the Old Firm support (that would be idiotic), but 1864's assertion that it was purely about religion rubbed me the wrong way - as I said originally, there are many fans on both sides of the divide that don't give a toss about religion. Unfortunately, the offensive voices speak the loudest.

By the way, I hate discussing the Old Firm on this message board.

The Old Firm games are like watching two local pub teams batter each other.

I like watching the Old Firm games, not because I'm religious in anyway, I don't support or want either team to win, it's a high intense derby, whichever way you look at it and always has controversy in the game.

There are fans from both clubs in Glasgow who aren't bothered about the religion anymore, but there are supporters there who are very religious about the whole thing.

It's always going to be about that, no matter what happens.

[RangerRover]

Thousands of protestants support Celtic - don't know where the half and half comparison was drawn from - way off the mark.

As for regular meetings between the two - Sunday's match will be the fifth Old Firm derby this season but how can any Rangers/Celtic fan not be looking forward to a top of the table clash with so much at stake ?

[Eddie]

I'm sure they are. I think they do play soooo regularly though that it must lose something. Twice, three times a season if the cup comes up, is more than enough just to let the rivalry simmer, five times is a bit of a joke. They should just kick the other teams out, play a 6/7 games between the two of them and winner takes everything.

[BRFC4EVA]

rad

sorry if I offended you

My view is simple. I have listened to the many tunes about Gers and Celts and every single one refer in some way to bigotry and religion. That cannot be disputed as all we hear is positives and negatives about "King Billy".

One team flies the tricolour the other the "UJ".

One supports the IRA t'other doesnt.

one is catholic and one is protestant - although i accept the attempts to change this have repaed dividends ie MO JO etc.

Oh well Rad, at least someone argrees with me. If the guy said the rivalry is based 90% on non relgious grounds then why are basically no catholics supporting Rangers? Songs such as 'ftp' and Red Hand Salute wouldnt exactly endire yourself to supporting rangers if a catholic?