[Archived] The Philipl Report

[Paul]

Williams has said over the past year that he does not know how to reverse the decline in attendances, which is a remarkable admission of failure that would have led to his departure/sacking in other industries.

I don't feel that can be a surprise as in some ways the decline in ST sales and attendances is almost impossible to understand. The club would probably handsomely reward any fan who could turn up with the answer.

Jim has commented about Leicester before and I feel he is very close to the mark. Rovers fans are not born, they are made. Some people, like me, don't/didn't have a footballing parent to introduce them to the game, I only became interested when I went to secondary school.

These days kids have some understanding of footie far earlier and become Utd fans from a very young age. Rovers have to combat this in the local area, we have to grab these children BEFORE they start to worship false idols. Where I believe Rovers go wrong is that few, if any, of the communoty schemes result in children regularly attending Ewood. Any of the local initiatives Rovers introduce should include regular free seats, the places are empty anyway. The odd free ticket doesn't make a Rover, but constant reinforcement would do so.

Aside from the kids the only other method to increase attendance is to improve the quality on the pitch. I know so many disillusioned ex-ST holders it's frightening. They simply don't go because the last 2-3 years have been awful......and it will take a while to get them back again.

I'd be happy, and still by STs, if every empty pair of seats went to parent/child for £10 total until the ground was bursting at the seams.

[Scotty]

It was just a throwaway line from me on a sh1tty day in East Kent, I doubt it will alter the standard of the "debate" in any way.

Some people fail to get sarcasm etc and take it all to heart

it just a case of people airing and justifying their opinions.

Trust me streaky, it "got" Bryan's sarcasm (if that's what it was). It just annoyed me that, for the first time in ages, we get a decent thread on here that's raising some good points and issues and someone comes along with a throwaway line to have a dig.

Just like you did.

[andy82]

I repeat what I said: running Blackburn Rovers does not require any special skills and for what they do Williams and Finn receive more than ample remuneration.

Maybe you should send in your CV to the Rovers board.

surely jims well past retirement age?

[streakyb]

Trust me streaky, it "got" Bryan's sarcasm (if that's what it was).  It just annoyed me that, for the first time in ages, we get a decent thread on here that's raising some good points and issues and someone comes along with a throwaway line to have a dig.

Just like you did.

Whereas accusing me of "towing the company line" was not a dig? Because even if you did not mean it, that was how I took it.

I feel a good forum has to have a balancce between well structured debate, humour/sarcasm and fun.

In my eyes, the club approximately meet my expectations. yes they have things to work and improve on. But overall they do a lot better job than any of us and probably better than people we could find to replace them. So as unhappy as you may be with them, we just have to get on with them and work with them to ensure a bright furure or rovers.,

Edited February 18, 2005 by streakyb

[waggy]

what a load off rollocks

[Shaddy]

People have a right to criticise the club if they feel the need. They may be wrong to do so in some cases, but to just dismiss all criticism as moaning and groaning just lowers the standard of the debate.

But it has become all to predictable from certain members.

[streakyb]

But it has become all to predictable from certain members.

But it should be. If a fan is nor happy with the board/finn/williams as some here are (and for arguably good reasons, even if I do not share them all) then they should be predictably criticising a regime that they do not support.

[American]

Just out of curiosity, why should we be putting up Leicester as an example to strive towards? Do you want to see us (heck, what's that word you guys use instead of bankrupt?)?

[streakyb]

Just out of curiosity, why should we be putting up Leicester as an example to strive towards? Do you want to see us (heck, what's that word you guys use instead of bankrupt?)?

He was using Leicester rugby Union Club (not football). they are arguably Englands biggest and most succesfully Rugby club and I believ are on a very sound finacial footing with a considerable fan base for a rugby club.

[American]

Gotcha, thanks.

[nottsrover]

I would suggest that Leicester RFC is not comparable in anyway to Blackburn. Firstly, Leicester has a captive audience in that it is the only rugby team in the Midlands playing at the highest level. It is therefore not competing with any other rugby club - only with other sports. Secondly, when Leicester started this scheme it was already a very successful club side so when people turned up they saw a winning side and are more likely to become permanently affiliated with the club. If people were given free tickets to see Rovers at the moment there is a good chance that they will see a defeat. Not much of an incentive to come back and pay to see Rovers play.

As people have said attendances is a complicated issue. In my view we are highly unlikely to be able to increase our fan base beyond the level it was at a few years ago. The battle I believe that John Williams should be fighting is to keep those fans within the club that are going on a weekly basis at the moment. Exiled in Toronto commented that we have 17,000 die hard fans. I would say that we have about 10,000. The remainder will float depending on our success/club policy. It is up to the club to make sure that the none die hard fans keep coming if we are going to have a sustainable future.

[RovertheHill]

It's not that difficult. All it requires is foresight and long-term planning.

Twenty years ago, Leicester rugby club started giving away FREE season tickets to kids in the area, building up a supporter base that is now maturing to the extent that the club are leaving Welford Road to accommodate their burgeoning crowds in Leicester City FC's Walkers Stadium.

I think you overestimate the ability of chief executives and managers in general. Most do not have any special ability but have got where they are either through bullshitting/brownnosing their way to the top, or luck.

I repeat what I said: running Blackburn Rovers does not require any special skills and for what they do Williams and Finn receive more than ample remuneration.

Utter nonsense and typical journalist - they always THINK they know best. And sports journo's are the worst - any old tripe and nobody cares if it's right or wrong. People in glass houses...

By the way, my two kids have had free season tickets for the last 3 years. We'll have to pay for the eldest next year but the seed has been sown. Whose idea was that then?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It's not that difficult. All it requires is foresight and long-term planning.

Twenty years ago, Leicester rugby club started giving away FREE season tickets to kids in the area, building up a supporter base that is now maturing to the extent that the club are leaving Welford Road to accommodate their burgeoning crowds in Leicester City FC's Walkers Stadium.

I think you overestimate the ability of chief executives and managers in general. Most do not have any special ability but have got where they are either through bullshitting/brownnosing their way to the top, or luck.

I repeat what I said: running Blackburn Rovers does not require any special skills and for what they do Williams and Finn receive more than ample remuneration.

You mean long term planning like free season tickets to under eights, some of the cheapest Junior season tickets in the Premier League, free tickets to schools.

I bet you moaned when they introduced schemes like bring a friend for a tenner, or even reduced ticket prices for less attractive fixtures.

Truth of the matter is that JW and TF are fighting a battle anyway due to the size of the clubs catchment area, local rivalries with close towns and the gradual effects of over-saturation of the game on TV.

Up to date Rovers have been imaginative and daring (in terms of the potential affect on revenue) to attract new fans, especially younger ones.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Having been on this messageboard for a while I feel that Jim and Exiled in Toronto have agendas other than an open discussion of Rovers at heart.

They're quite happy to slag off anything and everything.

It was just a throwaway line from me on a sh1tty day in East Kent, I doubt it will alter the standard of the "debate" in any way.

Really? What makes you say that?

I've supported this club for 35 years, bleed Blue and White, and am counting the seconds to Sunday's game.

I happen to think that the Chief Exec is over-paid. For 6 years I sat on the Board of a company with $450million turnover and 2,000 employees, and my boss - the CEO - got paid around what Williams earns.

Rovers are a $42m t/o business, of which $30m turns up automatically and also goes out automatically to players on x year fixed contracts. Getting paid a quarter of a million to influence +/-$12m I think is ludicrous, as is getting a double digit pay increase when performance slumped - in my opinion.

No "hidden agenda" - and what that might be in your fevered imagination I have no idea.

[thenodrog]

Truth of the matter is that JW and TF are fighting a battle anyway due to the size of the clubs catchment area, local rivalries with close towns and the gradual effects of over-saturation of the game on TV.

Dont want to divert this thread too far off course but the battle that they are fighting is a losing one imo.

I'll prob get lambasted for this from the usual sources BUT everybody knows that not only is Blackburn too small a town in population terms to compete at Prem level but the section of the population who historically support the Rovers is diminishing relatively quickly, whilst the section of the population who percentage wise tend not to follow the fortunes of the towns team is rising at a similar rate. Something will surely have to be done to address that situation if BRFC are to survive in the med to long term.

Dunno where JW and TF go next with this issue but if they can get a response in that direction to the tune of 5000+ extra season ticket holders at normal prices then they can have another rise next year too.

[Duffers]

Does it really matter what they are paid - we're talking about millions of pounds in turnover - does anyone give a sh1t if Williams and Flinn are earning an extra fifty grand?

[AlanK]

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

For all of you who want a CEO on less money, just remember how much the players earn.

That is the market value for the people in this particular business at the moment.

What I don`t care about is how much other peoples colleagues are earning in their relevant trades.

We all know football people earn to much but to criticise just 2 directors is a bit narrow minded.

For the record, I think the chaps behind the scenes are doing a great job. More than making up for certain players who are earning far more.

[American]

It's not what they are earning, it's the pay increases. How much better/worse off are we in the past year than in the year previous? Is that worth a double digit pay increase?

[RevidgeBlue]

The other thing that struck me on reading the summary was that as I recall:

12 months ago we made a tiny operating profit which we were told translated into a £12m loss due to player depreciation. I can see no mention of player depreciation in this summary.

Does this mean that by using the same accounting standard and applying straight line player depreciation we lost £24.7m before the profit on transfers? Or does player depreciation not apply this time round for some reason?

[DaveyB]

Attendances may be only a small percentage of income but it the one source of income that Williams and Finn have the power to influence through their skills (or lack of them) as managers.

I go to every home game (and quite a few away aswell) with my dad. I am a reqular reader, if not poster, on here - my dad is not.

Recently my dad been talking of us not renewing our season tickets (which we have held since 1991) because of

a) it's not that enjoyable to go to the rovers anymore

and b ) it's not that hard to get tickets when you want them anymore.

During, or shortly after (i forget when), this discussion I mentioned the good work work done by John Williams during the transfer of nancy boy Ferguson and my dad really didn't have a clue who I was talking about. (TBH I wonder if I would really know who was CEO of rovers without this site.)

After the 3-0 defeat of Norwich my dad seemed to reconsider his position and say if we play play like that every week then he'll come no matter what.

Now tell me that Williams and Finn have a realistic role to play in increasing our attendances! It's down to the players and manager - if we're playing good, entertaining football (and winning every now and then) the crowds will come. If we don't, they won't! Simple as!

Edited February 19, 2005 by DaveyB

[Paul]

.....out of the mouths of babes and sucklings. DaveyB has summed up the whole issue superbly

[Blackburn Ender]

I can't believe we're arguing about the salaries of Williams and Finn (at a combined £400k-ish) when we've got - and sold on - several young millionaires on the books whom we continue to pay shed-loads of cash to.

And the enertainment they've served up has often been second rate, to put it kindly.

But that's the market Rovers find themselves in.

On the managerial appointment front, hasn't Williams justified his earnings by negotiating the club out of Souness and into Hughes without having to comensate Souness for a sacking (in fact, didn't Newcastle have to give us money for Souey?).

Attendances are such a red herring. We get 20-odd thousand. Accept it and live with it.

It's much more important to ensure we are getting the best youngsters we can into the Academy and into the first team. If another Duffer comes along and another daft Chelsea bid comes along, well, at least we pick up more squillions and on we go.

Considering the crap that must pass over Williams' desk every day - agents, Premier League idiocy, players, media stuff - I suspect he earns every penny.

[Exiled in Toronto]

To be fair to the guy, it must be an absolute nightmare to be CEO and to have an employee (the manager) who has far more influence over the success of the enterprise, and over whom he has no control whatsoever, apart from being able to recommend sacking him. In reality, the CEO is the manager's gopher:

"I need that player - go sign him"

"I need Prozone - go buy it"

"I've fallen out with that top scorer - give him away"

and so on.

Maybe he does earn it.....

[American]

Question for Philip and/or Jan: I'm assuming the club owns Ewood. Are the results of operations of Ewood itself included in these numbers, or is it run as a separate entity?

Bueller?

[Jan]

Everything is included- the cost of Ewood is in "land and buildings" all income it generates is in these numbers