Souness Out!

[dave birch]

Dave, for someone who feels this thread should be shut and is pointless you don’t half keep posting in it..... The thread will die a natural death very soon.... while its a hot topic leave it alone! Have your say and leave it at that stop dictating what the rest of us should and shouldn't post.

Opps I’m in trouble now.... criticising a regular. Tut.Tut.

381529[/snapback]

Oscar, firstly, you won't find me complaining about criticism of posters, just ask any of the mods. I have never, NEVER complained about anyone, even when they got personal.

secondly, we had a person that kept banging on with the same tune, he got banned.

Thirdly, had some of the people that posted on this topic had not posted elsewere, then, I'm sure, the mods would have intervened.

Now, I'm sure you're bright enough to see that all of my posts on this subject were focussed on those that seemed to be paranoid about Souness.

Finally, this thread should have died a death over twelve months ago. No one belts on about Kidd, or Hodgson, or Harford. They, for all their efforts, did less than Souness. It's just that some have this thing about GS, or maybe they weren't around prior to his tenure.

A Football manager is going to fail sometime, it maybe as Souness did at Newcastle, or the bloke may just kark it over his desk. Whichever way it happens, time catches up with everyone.

I would still buy GS a drink for what he did for the Rovers.

"edit" I think Waggy's final sentence sums it up well.

Edited February 4, 2006 by dave birch

[broadsword]

Are you saying we're not allowed to talk about a former manager Dave?

Can we talk about Don Mackay, Bob Saxton, Jim Iley? Dally Duncan? Bob Crompton?

Or is it just Souness?

It was big news when he got sacked, why on Earth can't we discuss it? Mind you, given the demented nature of some postings, I see your point.

[dave birch]

Bryan, by all means talk about him, but give him some due, he did more than others, but they get stuff all for putting us in the mire. At least he got us out.

And yes, it is big news that he got sacked, but we've had this constant bile thrown at someone who hadn't been at Ewood for better than a year.

I wish posters would talk about some of the Managers we've had, rather than someone that some posters seem to have a pathalogical hate for.

[ABBEY]

I don't think Saunders was there then.  Or if he was he was just trying to get fit.

(Derby are looking at Saunders not Sourmess- they don't have the money to waste on Sourpuss)

381732[/snapback]

oops sorry !!!doh! i think she really really deep down loves me ....wow!

Edited February 4, 2006 by ABBEY

[Wolverine]

The funny thing about Souness is that his apathy suited most of our fans. If you look at how pessimistic our fans can be, it isnt difficult to see why a manager whose target was always 'avoid relegation' is difficult for so many people to let go of, even after so long.

Glad he came, glad he fixed us, but annoyed he buggered off leaving us heading back where we came from, but minus star players.

All the best to him and I hope he is happier away from management.

[broadsword]

Bryan, by all means talk about him, but give him some due, he did more than others, but they get stuff all for putting us in the mire. At least he got us out.

And yes, it is big news that he got sacked, but we've had this constant bile thrown at someone who hadn't been at Ewood for better than a year.

I wish posters would talk about some of the Managers we've had, rather than someone that some posters seem to have a pathalogical hate for.

381749[/snapback]

Pretty much in agreement there.

Some people are obsessed.

[FourLaneBlue]

Just to respond to Colin, I don't see why Rovers fans have to be so partizan about Souness. There's no need to detest him or conversely, love him.

381692[/snapback]

Rovers fans are like that about most players or managers who leave, in fact we are usually like that about some who are still at the club! We even booed Shearer for crying out loud!

When at Burnley Stan Ternant said that the Dingle fans were only ever happy when they are moaning...Rovers fans have more in common with them then we'd like! Although not the sleeping with the sister stuff, they have the monopoly on that.

Edited February 4, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[chris]

poor old Souness didn't really deserve to be sacked, i think he still has a future and Newcastle brings the worse out in all managers

[joey_big_nose]

i hate newcastle with a vengence,and they deserved sourpuss but as a major critic off him in his last 18 months at ewood i still cannot dislike him.you have to remenber gs did a fantastic job at ewood till he got too big for the club.i blame rob coar and j.willams for not having the balls to stand up to him,we all know the story off how he sent williams away from brockhall for visiting!!!!!!!!!!

          i can remenber in turkey when menbers off this board were playing fans off gencer and rovers first team were trianing on the next pitch,gs was running round the outskirts off the pitch whilst the team trained,he looked at all the camera crews and i could see him thinking to his self-why are all those crews watching fans and not one filming my team?the guy loves attention.

        i fell out with him after the soton away game were he threatened the soton coach,to me it was a disgrace and bullying.i hated how he sold dunn and duff and wasted the money on rangers rejects,but he still had 3 good seasons at ewood and them are the ones i will remenber

381739[/snapback]

The best post on this thread IMHO.

Souness was slightly deranged, detached from reality and not particulalry tactically astute I suppose. But on the other hand he did fantastic things for this clubs and even his dodgy signings- Grabbi/Ferguson/De Pedro/Amoruso - are somewhat compensated by the quality he got on the cheap - Tugay/Friedel/Gray/Stead.

Give him a break. He is too unbalanced and lacks the raw talent to be a top manager, and I don't think he will ever get a really juicy job again. That is punishment enough for a man so proud.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

The guy's been gone from us some 16 months and some of you people are still prattling on.

I don't want to irritate Dave Birch, a guy I like, but as I've been too busy to post over the last couple of days, I'm going to (belatedly) put my two cents in now. Or twenty cents maybe - I've been known to prattle on a bit.

Graeme Souness can have no complaints whatsoever about his sacking at Newcastle and since the summer of 2003 I think he lost the plot as a football manager, first with us, nearly sending Rovers crashing into oblivion before thankfully being taken off our hands by Freddy Shepherd. Instead of John Williams having to sack the man, we got over a million quid in compensation. I bet Williams couldn't believe his luck when Freddy called.

At Newcastle, Souness claimed to have the most talented group of players he had ever worked with. (A squad that under Bobby Robson had finished 3rd, 4th and 5th in the previous three seasons.) Freddy Shepherd made it clear that he wanted Champions League football, hence sacking Sir Bobby for finishing 5th. Souness knew exactly what he had to do. Within a year and a half, he turned them into relegation strugglers after spending over £50m.

Souness will point to injuries and "lady luck" as an excuse. In his first season, Newcastle didn't have such bad injury problems but they still finished 14th in the League - Newcastle's lowest ever position since the Premiership started in 1992.

This season Newcastle have put in a series of wretched performances, including one particular horror show in the Carling Cup against Wigan reserves, when the players looked totally disinterested and uncommitted. Five thousand Geordie fans at the JJB stadium stayed behind to chant for Souness to go. Freddy Shepherd decided to wait another couple of months before pulling the trigger.

Souness said of his sacking: "I am obviously saddened at the way things have worked out at St James' Park. I have enjoyed living and working in Newcastle. My family and I have been made to feel particularly welcome by the Geordies."

Made to feel particularly welcome? The Geordies couldn't wait to see the back of him and celebrated his sacking like a Cup final win. As for being "saddened", Souness seemed to have a grin on his face as he drove away from St James' Park with a pay-off reported to be in the region of £3m - £5m.

A few weeks ago, in a thinly veiled attack at the manager, Freddy Shepherd told everyone at St James' Park that the moaning had to stop. But Souness ignored Shepherd and carried on repeating the injuries excuse. Shepherd talked of Europe while Souness talked of relegation. He had to go.

Against Man City on Wednesday night, Newcastle had Scott Parker and Emre fit again, but they still put in a shocking performance. They didn't trouble the Man City goalkeeeper once and were guilty of the same defensive blunders that had characterised their season.

Souness wanted more signings in January, but Shepherd thought he'd wasted quite enough of Newcastle's cash - £8m on Boumsong, a player available on a free transfer six months earlier, £10m spent on the Spaniard Albert Luque, who looked disinterested whenever he stepped onto the pitch. Further millions blown on the likes of Babayaro and Amdy Faye.

As Mark Lawrenson said: "The worse Boumsong became the more pig-headed and determined Souness was to dig his heels in and keep on playing him. Boumsong has become the biggest joke in the Premiership."

While at Rovers and Newcastle, Souness spent over £17m on Rangers' players - including Amoruso, Ferguson and Boumsong. Astonishingly, Souness told Rangers fans that he was benefiting his former club and they ought to be thankful for the high transfer fee he paid for Boumsong as it eased Rangers' debt. Souness said: "I think David Murray should get a tremendous amount of applause for signing a player for nothing and six months later getting £8m for him."

Who has been Souey's worst buy in his managerial career? - You decide.

Fifteen howlers from Souness....

Liverpool.

Torben Piechnik (£500,000)

Danish defender who was totally out of his depth in the Premiership.

Paul Stewart (£2.3m)

Frequently on the injured list, or when fit, just plain crap. A few years ago he was voted by Liverpool fans as their worst ever buy.

Istvan Kozma (£600,000)

Hungarian joke of a player. Bought by Souness because "I saw him play well for Dunfermline." Oh right. So having a good game for Dunfermline means you can suddenly play for Liverpool then....

Julian Dicks (£1.5m)

Overweight thug who was a disgrace to the Liverpool shirt.

Mark Walters (£1.25m)

Another player bought from Rangers. Souness called him the new John Barnes. He might have been the same colour but that was all they had in common. Given a free transfer to Stoke.

Southampton

Ali Dia

Picture the scene. Souness receives a phone call.

"Hello Graeme. I'm George Weah, World Footballer of the Year."

"Hello George."

"Listen Graeme," "My cousin Ali is a brilliant player (struggles to avoid laughing). He'd love to play in the Premiership and he'd do a great job for you at Southampton. Would you be interested?

"Yes George. When can he come to Southampton?"

"I'll send him on the plane straight away Graeme," (struggles to avoid laughing again.)

"I look forward to seeing him George. I'll stick him on the bench on Saturday."

Saturday comes and Southampton play Leeds. Ali Dia comes on as a sub in the second half and is so shockingly diabolical - so horrendously inept - that Souness has to substitute him within minutes. A rare example of a sub coming on and having to be substituted shortly afterwards for being so crap.

George Weah my arse. Souness fell for it though. Ali left to go to Gateshead, where he couldn't get a game in the reserve team. I kid you not. Ali Bongo, sorry Ali Dia, was so bad that he was deemed not good enough for Gateshead reserves.

Blackburn

Corrado Grabbi (£7m)

Oh Dear. You would have hoped that Souness would have learnt his lesson about signing players without seeing them in the flesh. But on the strength of a video from a dodgy agent, Souness splashed out £7m on the long-haired Serie B player. Given a free transfer to Ancona.

Barry Ferguson. (£7.5m)

Souness used a large chunk of the Damien Duff money to sign Barry "He's going to be a top top player" Ferguson. He was given the Rovers captaincy and turned out to be a soft two-faced @#/?. A few weeks before handing in a transfer request in the middle of the season he told the press: "I'm extremely happy at Blackburn and I definitely want to stay at the club. The training under Mark Hughes has been excellent."

A couple of weeks later, Ferguson refused to pull on the Rovers shirt for an FA Cup tie against Cardiff. A total disgrace to our football club.

Lorenzo Amoruso (£1.4m.)

Italian hulk. Ama-useless was another signing from Rangers. I bet David Murray was laughing all the way to the bank.

Javier De Pedro. (Free)

This is what Souness had to say when he signed: "The fans should be excited because he's a quality player. Two years ago he played in every game for Spain in the World Cup. He's a left-sided player with bags of international experience and he scores his fair share of goals from set-pieces. He's got terrific ability with his left foot."

The reality was that De Pedro was an overweight Spanish tub of lard. At least he came on a free transfer though. Six months earlier Souness wanted to pay money for him.

Dwight Yorke (£2m)

When Yorke joined Rovers, Souness said that he reminded him of Kenny Dalglish.

Yorke though turned out to be a lazy Caribbean slug. He was completely past his best when he joined us from Man United. Joined Birmingham, where he wasn't good enough for "Big Club."

Newcastle

Jean-Alain Boumsong (£8m)

8 million quid for the biggest joke in the Premiership.

Amdy Faye (£2m)

Bought from Portsmouth. Newcastle fans think he's a useless clogger in midfield. Offers no creativity at all.

Albert Luque (£10m)

10 million quid. Bloody hell.

Celestine Babayaro (£1m)

Can't defend. Just like most of the Newcastle team....

Maybe the mods could have a poll as to which of these 15 is the worst? I reckon it's a toss-up between Grabbi and the comical Ali Dia....

A few season ago, at Rovers, Souness was talking about wanting to retire in the next few years. Well he's got his retirement package now. A few million quid in his back pocket courtesy of Freddy Shepherd.

Do I feel sympathy for Souness? I feel sympathy for the thousands of people in the West Midlands who lost their jobs last year when MG Rover collapsed. I feel sympathy for other people across the country who've lost their jobs through no fault of their own and find themselves on the dole with kids to feed and bills to pay. I don't feel sympathy for a manager who brought failure upon himself and walks away smiling with a cheque for 3 million quid. Not bad for 16 months of failure is it?

What other industry apart from football rewards people in this way for failing to get results? No wonder he was smiling as he drove away from the club. Which chairman would want to employ this man now?

[FourLaneBlue]

Which chairman would want to employ this man now?

I know this one!

David Murray.

[mrsjansen]

AESF. I salute you! Brilliant post.

[DudeAbides]

AESF!!! what a great post....

[broadsword]

Ali Dia wasn't a Souness buy, he was brought on trial.

[Eddie]

Didn't he start a game for Southampton and was substituted after about 20 minutes? Might be wrong, but that is always what I've thought.

Good post overall AESF but you're a bit hard on a couple of Souness signings. Dwight Yorke was very good the first season he was here and really thing went south when he and Souness seemed to have a few problems. For the price he came in at you could say that the results of the first season pretty much justified it, I think most of us were excited when he signed, I certainly was.

Amoruso will never escape the fact that he was a member of a horrible team and an even worse defence. However, at times he was the only one who looked halfway decent and was a major part of the improvement in our form that saw us stay up. Not a great player, but for 1.3 million not that awful of a buy, I think he was a bit hard done by.

Now for the most controversial one, Barry Ferguson. From where we are now it was a horrible waste of money, but back in December of last year I think most Rovers fans were starting to think he may just have been worth it. The fact that he then sold us up the river in late January could never have been predicted.

[FourLaneBlue]

Didn't Newcastle only upgrade to 52000 in about 2001? At Euro 96 SJP was only around a 35k stadium.

Where do they get all their fans from? Newcastles actually a suprisingly small city I think, only about 270k, and in the NE generally there aren't that many people. But I suppose they only really have Newcastle, Sunderland and Boro to choose from...

381704[/snapback]

Across from Newcastle is Gateshead, which alone has almost twice the amount of people of Blackburn itself. Gateshead used to have a league side eons ago, but since then Newcastle are the only show in town.

If only we had that kind of hinterland to tap into for support...

[den]

Didn't Newcastle only upgrade to 52000 in about 2001? At Euro 96 SJP was only around a 35k stadium.

Where do they get all their fans from? Newcastles actually a suprisingly small city I think, only about 270k, and in the NE generally there aren't that many people. But I suppose they only really have Newcastle, Sunderland and Boro to choose from...

381704[/snapback]

You would be surprised how big the population is.

Almost 800,000 people live in the newcastle area. Link.

On top of those 800,000, they draw support from as far west as Carlisle and as far north as Scotland.

They should be well supported shouldn't they? Especially if you compare them to Blackburn - pop 130,000ish.

[ABBEY]

oops sorry !!!doh!  i think she really really deep down loves me ....wow!

381771[/snapback]

whats the odds of me meeting a girl called jan last night ...scary!! it wasnt rovers jan??surly shes not that hot lol

[joey_big_nose]

What other industry apart from football rewards people in this way for failing to get results?

382077[/snapback]

Company directors get a similar deal, as do, I imagine, football club directors.

While I believe evrybody should get severance pay if fired, clearly what is given to these individuals is ridiculous. But then I suppose if the company/football club are stupid enough to offer the contract...

[thenodrog]

While I believe evrybody should get severance pay if fired,

382149[/snapback]

Eh? Why? Redundancy is one thing but surely most dismissals should attract no reward whatsoever. Or else like the Souness saga they actually turn into a scam.

As for the Souness scam........Are the Mags really that bad? Or was GS apparently displaying 'characteristic' stubborness in playing Boumsong and Bramble whilst all the while really engineeering his own lucrative exit? Are all those players really injured enough not to play some part or did he decide they were not quite recovered from injury? Once the writing was well and truly on the wall he appeared to put Shepherd over a barrell by seemingly playing a team designed to lose.

Anybody see 'The great rock and roll swindle'?

[thenodrog]

I know this one!

David Murray.

382086[/snapback]

Question for you FLB.......Why employ somebody who has been working for you for years?

[joey_big_nose]

Eh? Why?  Redundancy is one thing but surely most dismissals should attract no reward whatsoever.  Or else like the Souness saga they actually turn into a scam. 

382155[/snapback]

In my mind I equate redundancy pay and severance pay as the same thing. All i was saying is that if someone is laid off or has a fixed term contract prematurely terminated they deserve to be compensated.

After thinking about this a bit the problem isn't so much Souness' spinelessness but Newcastle setting themselves up by offering so much in the first place.

Why not offer a deal like Sparky got at Rovers? It wasn't like Souness was some amazing respected talent who could only be wooed by a long term deal.

[philipl]

It was obscene but the obscenity is all FS's.

He wrote a contract guarranteeing Souness some £6m. Souness wrote he would be Manager of Newcastle United for three and a bit years.

Souness would be turning up to work with Newcastle in the Prem this season, the Championship in 06/7, League 1 in 07/8 and thank you and good bye handing over a League 2 side to his successor if it were up to him.

As it was FS has said, "no its OK Graeme, here's the rest of the cash I legally promised to give you- good bye." There will have been a downwards adjustment, there always is in these circumstances- and provision for Souness to repay part if he gets another job.

What a surprise that GS is hanging up his Managerial boots for a while (literally in his case). At 55, he'll still be young enough to come back when he has finished his Newcastle contract period.

That is why rolling contracts are much more normal now although I wouldn't be surperised to see Rovers re-negotiate a new fixed term deal with Sparky if the Trust were to make an advance on their investment into the club.

A case of the Trust saying; OK we are making our commitment but we need to manage the managerial risk over the period the investment is intended to cover. At least, that is what I hope will happen.

[Presty On Tour]

doesn't sourpuss still have a contract with sky sports as a pundit?

imo not a very good one either

[thenodrog]

That is why rolling contracts are much more normal now

382178[/snapback]

Have you written to the FA about that?

Maybe the publically burned fingers of the FA and FFS will lead to a little more sanity in future. Nobody repeat NOBODY is irreplaceable in this world.