[Archived] Dahlin Insurance Setback

[bluebruce]

Should of used the accident helpline. No win, no fee.

398670[/snapback]

Haha, true. But that only works when suing your employer- so Dahlin could've used it against us. I can see it now on the ad...

'I was idly- that being the operative word- going about my job at the training ground for Blackburn Rovers. At lunch time I ate one more pie than the fifty I was accustomed to, and my spine finally gave out. The club failed to warn me that being an overpaid, lazy git and eating too much of their canteen food might end my career. I won £2 million in compensation and screwed the club yet again.'

Makes you wonder why he didn't do it...

[tchocky]

months of pesculation.

398620[/snapback]

hi hi

[bellamy11]

hi hi 

398684[/snapback]

I did mean speculation. Honestly.

[nottsrover]

Not good news and not only because we haven't been paid the £4m we had hoped for. The legal costs involved in taking this case through to three High Court hearings will be high. I have not seen the judgment, but as we lost it is also likely that we will have to pay the insurers costs as well. I would not be suprised if the total costs exceeded £3m as a result. The downside to Rovers is therefore potentially in excess of £7m (or a top quality striker this summer).

[USABlue]

Medical evidence strongly suggested that the cause of the injury was in fact degenerative disc disease and insurers Avon, Eagle Star, AGF and IC Insurance highlighted a clause in the policy which excludes disablement attributable to arthritic or other degenerative conditions.

Mrs Justice Dobbs ruled that Dahlin had clearly suffered an 'awkward fall'. However she added: "I do not consider the evidence of the fall puts it in a category of something so very different from what one sees regularly on the football pitch."

(From skysports.com)

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With the benefit of hindsight, the insurance company were more than happy to take the premiums without a thorough exam.

What exactly is the Judge trying to say. She is a doctor? If it is no so different from what one sees on the pitch then I don't understand where she is coming from. Probably a Spurs fan.

[thenodrog]

From that report........

"LONDON (Reuters) - The Blackburn Rovers have lost a High Court battle to win multi-million pound damages over a career-ending back injury to Swedish striker Martin Dahlin.

The Premier League club sued their insurers Avon Insurance who had refused to pay out after Dahlin's career was cut short in 1999.

A judge ruled on Wednesday that on the balance of evidence Dahlin, now a football agent, "probably" had a pre-existing condition and denied a claim for 4 million pounds.

Rovers have fought for eight years to get insurers to pay out following Dahlin's injury in a practice match in October 1997.

The insurers claimed there was an exemption clause that if the injury was caused by an existing condition they did not have to pay"

Right. I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of corporate insurance but

1. Can / Do we now sue Dahlin and his agent for deceiving us about his injury?

2. Can / Do we now sue the consultant who presumably gave him a clean bill of health?

3. If this situation is final football clubs should insist that players pay their own premiums which will be repaid to them at the end of their contracts, then if they lie about old injuries it's them who suffer.

After that the clubs should mount a campaign to discourage their supporters from insuring with Avon. There is more press and media coverage for Prem football than you can shake a stick at. Legally this is fraught but maybe a free hoarding at every ground and in frequent camera shot either dissing Avon or promoting other companies which 'play the game' as it were. The post match background interview board would do for starters. Trainers bag / T shirt,

4. Are Avon now going to sue us for attempt to defraud? If we were not deemed to defraud then why has there not even been a %age payout order given that mistakes were obviously made by all 3 parties?

6. If all else fails dont get mad get even.

Edited April 14, 2006 by thenodrog

[waggy]

just do what i did when the insurance company i dealt with became difficult,insure with someone else.i seem to remenber dahlin had ? marks about his fitness hence he signed for us

[thenodrog]

How sads this waggy? I never bought a Sharp product whilst they were shirt sponsors for MU same with Umbro and a few years ago I changed our mob phone network provider at work from Vodaphone to O2 (yes I know but I hate MU more). I just wouldn't feel right subbing the plastics and everything associated with Merchandise Utd. If everybody did the same the corporate sponsors in this country wouldn't touch MU with a bargh pole.

Every little helps.

[waggy]

well you ain't going to have to worry about that for the next 4 years then

[SAS]

i think dahlin had the same problem as I with his back

but he probably didnt know about it, and it can only crop up when something happens, like his injury.

the insurers have been a bit bent i think, i think some compo is due, because it was that injury he suffered that did end his career, not the one before

[stuwilky]

How sads this waggy?  I never bought a Sharp product whilst they were shirt sponsors for MU same with Umbro and a few years ago I changed our mob phone network provider at work from Vodaphone to O2 (yes I know but I hate MU more).  I just wouldn't feel right subbing the plastics and everything associated with Merchandise Utd.  If everybody did the same the corporate sponsors in this country wouldn't touch MU with a bargh pole.

Every little helps.

399128[/snapback]

Doesnt everyone do that?

[92er]

All this takes us back to 1966.

After we signed Gilliver from Huddersfield and he turned out to be a crock, we got compensation from them, not in the form of cash but another player. I presume the football league ruled that we were to get some kind of "compensation".

I think this is why much more onerous medicals have been the norm since. The question for me is, did we not do a full medical or did we sign him because the brand new manager wanted to bring him in and the hierarchy went along with it, despite knowing the (potential) problem.

I guess we'll never know!

[yawnsie]

Let's hope the authorities let us do the same thing forty years on... I'd forgive Roma for selling us a crock if they let us have Totti.

[thenodrog]

The question for me is, did we not do a full medical or did we sign him because the brand new manager wanted to bring him in and the hierarchy went along with it, despite knowing the (potential) problem.

I guess we'll never know!

399145[/snapback]

So Craig Bellamy is uninsurable to is he? Presumably if Avon had insured Shearer they would have taken the premiums and ducked out of paying the Mags if Alan Shearer had had a recurrence of his knee injury and been forced to retire? Bridge must also be uninsurable as presumably must RVN, Scholes, Cisse, Sissoko etc etc? In fact how many footballers have not had an injury similar to injuries which ultimately will have ended other players careers?

[DanLad]

From that report........

"LONDON (Reuters) - The Blackburn Rovers have lost a High Court battle to win multi-million pound damages over a career-ending back injury to Swedish striker Martin Dahlin.

The Premier League club sued their insurers Avon Insurance who had refused to pay out after Dahlin's career was cut short in 1999.

A judge ruled on Wednesday that on the balance of evidence Dahlin, now a football agent, "probably" had a pre-existing condition and denied a claim for 4 million pounds.

Rovers have fought for eight years to get insurers to pay out following Dahlin's injury in a practice match in October 1997.

The insurers claimed there was an exemption clause that if the injury was caused by an existing condition they did not have to pay"

Right.  I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of corporate insurance but

1.  Can / Do we now sue Dahlin and his agent for deceiving us about his injury?

2.  Can / Do we now sue the consultant who presumably gave him a clean bill of health?

3.  If this situation is final football clubs should insist that players pay their own premiums which will be repaid to them at the end of their contracts, then if they lie about old injuries it's them who suffer. 

After that the clubs should mount a campaign to discourage their supporters from insuring with Avon.  There is more press and media coverage for Prem football than you can shake a stick at.  Legally this is fraught but maybe a free hoarding at every ground and in frequent camera shot either dissing Avon or promoting other companies which 'play the game' as it were.  The post match background interview board would do for starters.  Trainers bag / T shirt,

4.  Are Avon now going to sue us for attempt to defraud?  If we were not deemed to defraud then why has there not even been a %age payout order given that mistakes were obviously made by all 3 parties?

6.  If all else fails dont get mad get even.

399114[/snapback]

All my opinion, but...

1) Neither Dahlin or his agent are medical experts and therefore can't really get into trouble for not knowing what was wrong.

2) You'd have to prove that the expert operated in a manner that was not consistent with general medical practices. Very tricky. There's a large burden of proof to be overcome. Ask anyone who's tried to bring a medical negligence claim.

3) Presumably clubs get the players full medical records that should be undoctored (as it were and excuse the pun) and contain all relevant info. As for avoiding Avon I feel that ALL insurance companies constantly try to screw you over. If it weren't them it'd be another one. Grrr!

4) A claim under insurance that fails isn't instantly a fraudulent claim. Clearly there have been issues that have complicated this claim. I've not checked, but what's happening about the legal costs?

5) I can't find 5!

6) Not sure what this entails, but probably the best bet!

Dan

Edited April 14, 2006 by DanLad

[USABlue]

So Craig Bellamy is uninsurable to is he?  Presumably if Avon had insured Shearer they would have taken the premiums and ducked out of paying the Mags if Alan Shearer had had a recurrence of his knee injury and been forced to retire?  Bridge must also be uninsurable as presumably must RVN, Scholes, Cisse, Sissoko etc etc?  In fact how many  footballers have not had an injury similar to injuries which ultimately will have ended other players careers?

399216[/snapback]

TND, I have no doubt in my mind Insurances companies like this kind of policy. Happy to take the policy payments but they already have a "pre-existing condition" as a means of trying to deny any claims. Insurance is a crock.

Take AIG for example, last year they upped my mate's homeowners insurance 40%. This year they plonk down $100,000,000 to put their name on a footy shirt. I hate insurance companies.

Edited April 14, 2006 by USABlue

[Fife Rover]

This thread has really got me thinking. I have been paying all kinds of premiums to a fairly wide variety of insurance companies ever since the late 50's. Some of them have matured and given me a modest return on the investment, but none have been exceptional and quite a few have been very poor. Then there have been several that only give you cover against a certain eventuality which never happens so you get no return at all. And finally there are several more that have been ongoing for X number of years and will continue until my death.

Now just supposing that instead of paying all these premiums to insurance companies, I had instead invested exactly the same amount of money in the best completely safe savings or investment schemes available over these years and kept on paying in every month as I have done to the Insurance companies. How much would I now have stached away? I warrant it would be a tidy sum by now; easily enough to cover any unforseen disaster or other "risk" as the insurance companies like to call it. Instead I have got exactly nothing to show from my "umbrella" insurance, and all those monthly premiums since 1958 to the present and still ongoing count for nothing!

[stuwilky]

Now just supposing that instead of paying all these premiums to insurance companies, I had instead invested exactly the same amount of money in the best completely safe savings or investment schemes available over these years and kept on paying in every month as I have done to the Insurance companies. How much would I now have stached away? I warrant it would be a tidy sum by now; easily enough to cover any unforseen disaster or other "risk" as the insurance companies like to call it. Instead I have got exactly nothing to show from my "umbrella" insurance, and all those monthly premiums since 1958 to the present and still ongoing count for nothing!

399242[/snapback]

A lot of them would.

Personally I go for minimum insurance, especially on the life front, cheap term insurance until the kids are old enough to fend for themselves and the mortgage is paid off. £22 a month for £300k pay out on death of either of us.

Worth paying for the peace of mind, which is kindof shattered with this kind of judgement to be honest.

[RevidgeBlue]

We were never ever going to win this case, the only surprising thing was we obtained judgement at first instance.

The "pre existing condition" clause is completely standard for the insurance industry. Everyone apart from Rovers "expert" thought he had a degenerative condition. And common sense dictates a training ground fall is not career ending except in the most exceptional of circumstances.

We should be looking at the procedures which allowed Dahlin to be signed in the first instance with such a condition and ensuring the same thing can't happen again now.

Especially bearing in mind practically the same thing happened with Thompson and his 65 year old knees some time later.

A lot of money down the pan pursuing this case.

[RevidgeBlue]

So Craig Bellamy is uninsurable to is he?  Presumably if Avon had insured Shearer they would have taken the premiums and ducked out of paying the Mags if Alan Shearer had had a recurrence of his knee injury and been forced to retire?  Bridge must also be uninsurable as presumably must RVN, Scholes, Cisse, Sissoko etc etc?  In fact how many  footballers have not had an injury similar to injuries which ultimately will have ended other players careers?

399216[/snapback]

They're not uninsurable, if a different injury altogether ended their careers the insurers would have to pay out.

Presumably the clubs know the score (or should do) when they take out the insurance.

[FourLaneBlue]

Where are they now? Martin Dahlin

No chance of getting a penny in compensation... and he is now a football agent!

[thenodrog]

Timely post FLB. I wonder if Woy got a backhander for taking a crock off somebody's hands?

[Ozz]

Despite the failure with the claim for Dahlin, it seems some insurance claims are worth the paper they're written on. Boros premiums look set to shoot up, as young Utd player wins millions. Man Utd Player wins claim.

[ace]

Despite the failure with the claim for Dahlin, it seems some insurance claims are worth the paper they're written on. Boros premiums look set to shoot up, as young Utd player wins millions. Man Utd Player wins claim.

Won't be just Boro's premiums that will shoot up..all clubs will be affected..no wonder we are holding onto our cash!!

(Don't waste money on 4th division rubbish..save it for the Citeh fire sale..coming soon to a stadium near you)