[Archived] European Cup

[cn174]

Apparently, the Welsh side TNS have offered to play Liverpool in a qualifier at the millenium stadium for next seasons champions league, its being considered by the FA and UEFA.

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Well in that case Liverpool should loan their entire squad to TNS on week long loans and let TNS challenge for the champs league next season

[andy82]

Istanbul Police Station, 9 am this morning:

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

A bit of a long post this one for a change....

20 years after the most shameful night in European Cup history, Liverpool produced the single best comeback in a European Cup final.

A few teams have come back from 3-0 down before in the European Cup, but only in a two-legged tie. Never in a final.

Last season AC Milan also lost a three goal lead in the competition. They beat Deportivo La Coruna 4-1 in the Quarter-Final 1st leg, before losing the 2nd leg 4-0.

(The best comeback in a European Cup semi-final was in 1986, when Venables' Barcelona lost the 1st leg to Gothenborg 3-0, before winning the return leg at the Nou Camp 3-0 and going through on penalties.)

Amid the scenes of jubilation from the scousers last night, are there one or two lessons to be learned about player loyalty ?

Shortly before Euro 2004, the odious Peter Kenyon made furtive contact with Steven Gerrard and offered to significantly increase his salary if he made the move south to Stamford Bridge.

Gerrard agonised over the decision (later admitting that one of the reasons he had a poor Euro 2004 was because his mind was in turmoil weighing up the possible move.)

In the end, Steven decided to stay with Liverpool for at least another year and turn his back on the extra Russian roubles. It was a rare display of turning down a bigger pay cheque. Most players only see the £ signs and don't give a monkey's toss about loyalty.

Gerrard was rewarded last night by lifting aloft the biggest club competition in Europe.

Shortly after Gerrard decided to stay last year, Michael Owen made the opposite decision. The young England striker (who has admitted to losing 30 grand at a time on gambling and playing cards on the England team coach) decided to leave Anfield and try out a bit of Spanish paella in Madrid.

I suspect that Michael may have watched last night's enthralling contest and wished that he'd displayed a similar loyalty to Liverpool last summer - rather than spending much of his time last season on the Real Madrid bench.

Never has the old cliche about football being a 'game of two halves' been more apt than last night.

In the first half, Milan produced some sublime attacking football. In the 2nd half they went to pieces.

Milan coach Carlo Ancelotti described the three goals conceded in six second half minutes as "madness", while defender Alessandro Nesta described it as a "blackout".

Milan should have won in extra time. Some of the Liverpool players were dying on their feet with cramp and Shevchenko must be wondering how the hell he missed from a yard out in the closing minutes.

A few moans....

While Liverpool's comeback was a heroic one, I continue to hate the Sham-pions League format.

I think it's a disgrace that clubs who fail to qualify for the group stage are moved to the UEFA Cup and get to enter that competition at the third round stage.

The Champions League should be for League champions only (and the team defending the trophy.)

Also, as has been mentioned by others on this thread, I struggle to identify with so many foreigners in an English team. Football has become too cosmopolitan for my tastebuds.

The Liverpool side which lost to Juventus in 1985 only had one non-UK/Irish player - the goalkeeper.

Liverpool played an attacking 4-3-3 lineup that night, with Grobbelaar being the only non-British Isles player in the team.

Grobbelaar

Neal, Hansen, Lawrenson, Beglin

Nicol, Wark, Whelan

Dalglish, Rush, Walsh.

Although the 1985 result didn't really matter after 39 lives had been lost, the Juventus penalty was for a foul outside the box, while Ronnie Whelan was clearly brought down inside the penalty area - and the penalty wasn't given.

Apparently, according to the Liverpool players, the ref waved away their penalty claim saying: "I'm not allowing this match to go to extra time."

Those who don't like a few stats, you're advised to look away now....

Liverpool's victory last night means that they've now overtaken Ajax and Bayern Munich in the all-time winners table.

Real Madrid 9 wins

Milan 6

Liverpool 5

Ajax 4

Bayern Munich 4

Wednesday's result also means that England as a country are now level with Italy and Spain - each with 10 victories apiece.

Countrywise list of winners:

Italy 10

Spain 10

England 10

Netherlands 6

(West) Germany 6

Portugal 4

France 1

Scotland 1

Romania 1

Yugoslavia 1

But whereas Italy have won only 10 out of 24 European Cup finals, England have won 10 out of 12.

(The only two English defeats being Leeds to Bayern Munich in 1975 and Liverpool to Juventus in 1985.)

Liverpool's comeback, as I said, was the best ever in a single European tie.

In terms of two-legged ties, one team has come back from being 5-0 down. In the 3rd round of the 1987/88 UEFA Cup, Panathinaikos came back from being 5-0 down against Honved Budapest to win 7-6 on aggregate.

Twice before has a team come back from being 4 goals down in European competition.

In the 2nd round of the 1984/85 UEFA Cup, Queens Park Rangers beat Partizan Belgrade 6-2 in the 1st leg at Loftus Road, before Partizan won the return leg 4-0, going through on the away goals rule - 6-6 on aggregate.

In the 1985/86 UEFA Cup 3rd round, Borussia Monchengladbach beat Real Madrid 5-1 in the 1st leg. The Spaniards won the 2nd leg 4-0 to go through on away goals - 5-5 on aggregate - Madrid going on to win the trophy that year.

Final moan...

I did mention this earlier on another thread, but it's 25 years since Nottingham Forest successfully defended the European Cup, beating Hamburg in the 1980 final

I'm not foolish enough to think that Forest should still be playing in Europe, but the players should at least be trying in every match.

This season, with Forest becoming the first ever European Cup winners to drop down into the third tier of domestic competition, the players have been an utter disgrace to the Forest shirt - going out on heavy booze benders during the middle of a relegation battle.

I hope that some of the Forest players watched last night's heroics and were suitably ashamed of themselves....

Incidentally, before the 1980 European Cup final, Cloughie told one of his players, Garry Birtles, that if he didn't go back to the hotel to have a shave, then he wouldn't be playing in the final.

I wonder what Cloughie would have made of the various hairstyles of French plonker Mr Cisse...

[Rovermatt]

Why is he a plonker? Because he's got an eccentric haircut?

Plonker is right.

[jim mk2]

Istanbul Police Station, 9 am this morning:

318770[/snapback]

Excellent !

I hate these things but in this case

There's a story going round that Turks have adopted Scousers out of sympathy because they'll do anything for a bent copper.

[thenodrog]

Why is he a plonker? Because he's got an eccentric haircut?

Plonker is right.

318833[/snapback]

Cos he makes Didier Drogba look like Van Basten! On last nights showing I prefer John Stead ffs!

Liverpools result was indeed magnificent but they are awful in reallity. We have had a poor season yet have lost only one more game than them! I cannot think that any of last nights players other than Riise and Gerrard would have got in the last Lpool team to play in the final! Even carragher, superb player that he is would not have shoved Hanson or more particularly Lawrenson out of that team.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Why is he a plonker? Because he's got an eccentric haircut?

Plonker is right.

318833[/snapback]

Cos he makes Didier Drogba look like Van Basten! On last nights showing I prefer John Stead ffs!

Liverpools result was indeed magnificent but they are awful in reallity. We have had a poor season yet have lost only one more game than them! I cannot think that any of last nights players other than Riise and Gerrard would have got in the last Lpool team to play in the final! Even carragher, superb player that he is would not have shoved Hanson or more particularly Lawrenson out of that team.

318855[/snapback]

Were we not the same when we won the Worthy cup, we were having a awful league campaign but in the Worthy cup we were getting good results, it was only after the Worthy cup win we improved our league form.

Liverpool have struggled to achieve what they would think of as a good league campaign, but their euro cup campaign in the knockout stages has been fantastic for them.

We can compare them to previous Liverpool teams, but the fact is that they are euro champions

Also a mention to Cisse who after breaking his leg at Ewood, many thought he would not play again this season, a great comeback from a really bad injury.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Grabbi Graeme

[pg]

Yep, they knocked out Bayern Leuverkeusen, Juventus, Chelsea and AC Milan.

Yes they had a little of bit luck in the final, but overall, you can't begrudge the trophy after the run they've had and the teams they have beaten. They have beated the current champions of England and Italy over two legs.

Edited May 27, 2005 by pg

[adopted scouser]

Istanbul Police Station, 9 am this morning:

318770[/snapback]

Excellent !

I hate these things but in this case

There's a story going round that Turks have adopted Scousers out of sympathy because they'll do anything for a bent copper.

318835[/snapback]

Support your 'bent' accusation, or don't you have to prove anything ? A bit like that grubby publication where you eek a living.

Must really smart knowing that in your latter years you've under achieved in your working life.

Think I'll have a ride over to Manchester, must be a dentist that hasn't had a decent filling for years.

[Shaddy]

I really don't understand why people are so upset about Liverpool not being allowed into next seasons Champions League.

The rules were clear that the holders no longer had an automatic place. So, they weren't good enough in the Premier League.

Personally, I like the rule as it is. I like the idea that a team has to balance it's commitment to both the domestic league and the champions league. Liverpool didn't make that balance. Put most of their effort into the European campaign, and not enough into the Premier League. Tough.

The World Cup on the other hand... don't agree with the holders not being automatically placed in that (is that right?)

[Cocker]

[Rovermatt]

I thought all those players who 'did a David May' at the end was funny.

Salif Diao, Josemi, Le Tallec and Pongy all getting in on the celebration photos was different class. I mean, Salif Diao has been on loan at Birmingham all season hasn't he? I've contributed as much.

By the way, well done to the Scousers.

318743[/snapback]

Did Sinama-Pongolle not score a crucial goal against Olympiakos? The guy was a vital part of the team earlier in the year before getting injured.

[LDRover]

I thought all those players who 'did a David May' at the end was funny.

Salif Diao, Josemi, Le Tallec and Pongy all getting in on the celebration photos was different class. I mean, Salif Diao has been on loan at Birmingham all season hasn't he? I've contributed as much.

By the way, well done to the Scousers.

318743[/snapback]

Did Sinama-Pongolle not score a crucial goal against Olympiakos? The guy was a vital part of the team earlier in the year before getting injured.

318893[/snapback]

Not sure RM, if he did, strike him off the list.

[jim mk2]

Must really smart knowing that in your latter years you've under achieved in your working life.

318883[/snapback]

Says plod turned cinema usherette.

Marvellous.

[Rovermatt]

You two really should take it outside.

(My money's on the scouser though)

Edited May 27, 2005 by Rovermatt

[Ste B]

Must really smart knowing that in your latter years you've under achieved in your working life.

318883[/snapback]

Says plod turned cinema usherette.

Marvellous.

318910[/snapback]

James, give it a rest will you, its getting boring now.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Ste B

[rock steady]

i went to the parade last night and the place was buzzing.

i was right at the end and the bus got there a few hours later than scheduled. i cant imagine how much alcohol was consumed, but i wouldnt fancy being a street cleaner today.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

WELL DONE 'POOL!

The majority of clubs would be happy with 1 European cup win never mind 5!!!

Like 'em or loathe 'em they possess a SUPERB TRADITION

[philipl]

Some interesting afters from the Liverpool win.

1) The G-14 have rallied round fellow member Liverpool to urge their inclusion in next year's Champions League. Time to get worried when completely non-qualifying G-14ers get lobbied for.

2) Benitez has been given £30m plus anything he raises from player sales to spend on transfer fees this summer. I'd trust Benitez to create a team good enough to beat Chelski.

3) Seen the Aussie press are getting upset about the stick being given to Kewell. The best line I saw about Kewell- a player with a heart the size of a diamond ear stud!

[thenodrog]

I'd trust Benitez to create a team good enough to beat Chelski.

He's already done that Philip.

btw I'm not so sure about Benitez but he's a bit like Sparky in that he's not had time to assemble his own squad yet.

[philipl]

add... for the Premiership title in 2005/6.

PS Benitez didn't do a bad job assembling a squad at Valencia did he- two Liga titles and a UEFA Cup. In fact his sequence is the same as Mourinho's except that he won the League in a much tougher competition (Spain as opposed to Portugal) and lifted the European Cup at his new club rather than his old one.

Bit different from Sparky in that respect.

Edited May 27, 2005 by philipl

[jim mk2]

3) Seen the Aussie press are getting upset about the stick being given to Kewell.

319054[/snapback]

No surprise there then. Tiresome, insular lot.

[Manchester Blue]

3) Seen the Aussie press are getting upset about the stick being given to Kewell.

319054[/snapback]

No surprise there then. Tiresome, insular lot.

319071[/snapback]

Not quite as tiresome as you eh He Who Shall Not be Named Mk2 please ?

[PMT]

Some interesting afters from the Liverpool win.

2) Benitez has been given £30m plus anything he raises from player sales to spend on transfer fees this summer. I'd trust Benitez to create a team good enough to beat Chelski.

319054[/snapback]

Now that Benitez and Co have won the trophy - I'd love to be there when a Journalist asks Mourinho if this fact makes Benitez the "Special One" instead!

[philipl]

There is an amusing irony to Liverpool winning the European Cup:

1) Liverpool are now in UEFA Super Cup. The timing of the Super Cup match means that Liverpool cannot go into the qualifying rounds of the Champions League- FIXTURE CLASH. So if Liverpool defend their Cup, Fenerbahce will drop from the Group stages into the third qualifying round. Fenerbahce are from the Asian side of Istanbul- the area which hosted all the Liverpool fans so well for the European Cup final.

2) I am not sure about the timing but this is even more ironic. Loverpool are also the UEFA representatives in the revived World Club Championship (that awful kick around in the long grass of Brasil which Man U scived out of the FA Cup for). I believe this will be held in December before Christmas. Since the UEFA Cup was given a group format (which I thought worked very well last year), the UEFA Cup Group games extend... into mid-December. So UEFA had not anticipated the European Champions playing in the UEFA Cup because it looks like there is a FIXTURE CLASH between the UEFA and World Club Cups.

The UEFA top brass are probably working out that they have no option but to put Liverpool straight into the Champions League Group stage because of their own make believe add-on games. There will of course be massive behind the scene pressure on the FA to dump Everton's Champions League nomination which the FA and Premier League should rightly resist.

The implications for Liverpool playing the Premiership, League Cup, FA Cup, either UEFA or Champions Cup, European Super Cup and World Club Cup is mind boggling. Next season has been shortened anyway because of the World Cup! SGE is probably begging Chelsea to sign Gerrard so he's not too tired to play in Germany!

The other knock on effect is that Fenerbahce must surely demand top seeding in the third round Champions League Qualifying Stage- that means all the others will slip down including Man U and the Old Firm increasing the probability of a Battle of Britain in August in what would also be a financial battle to the death. Even tastier would be Celtic v Everton and Rangers v Man U coming out of the bag for successive Tuesday and Wednesday evenings in late August (with the return legs one week later).

Edited May 30, 2005 by philipl