The Convicts Return

[Flopsy]

Test Match Special Cheered me up no end

"Oh and from what ive heard the wicket at Old Trafford is turning and the ground is one of Englands worst grounds to play at"

Cheers guys, better get loads of cricket balls all over the pitch during warm up

anyone think its going to go down to the Oval?

[Simon Says]

"Oh and from what ive heard the wicket at Old Trafford is turning and the ground is one of Englands worst grounds to play at"

Cheers guys, better get loads of cricket balls all over the pitch during warm up

337404[/snapback]

In the last two tests against the Aussies at Old Trafford Warne has picked up a total of 17 wickets! In a Championship match recently Gary Keedy was turning it square on the first day.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Simon Says

[Rovers_4_life]

Well played Brett Lee, he handled Harmy and Flintoff's short stuff well. I thought we had thrown it away but we managed to nick it.

I think Warne will spin them to a win at Old Trafford but hopefully we can take it all the way to the Oval.

[Timmy]

Well played Brett Lee, he handled Harmy and Flintoff's short stuff well. I thought we had thrown it away but we managed to nick it.

I think Warne will spin them to a win at Old Trafford but hopefully we can take it all the way to the Oval.

337430[/snapback]

apart from the jaffa that Warne bowled to Struass I think the batsman played Warne OK. He did take 6 wickets in the 2nd innings but two of those (Bell and Pietersen) were highly suspect, a couple were tail enders.

saying that Vaughan wins the toss on thursday and bats, so as not to (hopefully) face Warne on a sharply turning 4/5th day OT wicket.

[pg]

Never seen anything like it. Wow.

337356[/snapback]

Short memory eh Bryan? An exact replay of the Ashes Boxing Day test in Melbourne in '82, where Border and Thommo put on about 70 for the last wicket, only to fall about three runs short.

Also very similar to the '93 Windes-Aussie match, where Tim May and Craig McDermott performed more tail-end heroics, only to fall one run short.

Because of incidents like these, I never really thought we could win it. Honestly, I thought it would be all over in half and hour, but from an Australian perspective it was good to dig in a show some fight. If England went to OT on the back of a 100-run thrashing they would be rampant. Now they will be more circumspect, and the Aussies will realise that they can win matches without McGrath.

Once it got below 50 to win my wife was getting very excited, but I kept reassuring her that we'd lose with about five more runs to get. The tail-enders certainly rode their luck, there were plenty of 'swing and misses' outside off, a dropped chance, and loads of skied balls that just fell short of fielders. But you have to give credit to the courage that the tail showed.

But as Boycott commented, they just tightened up with less than 10 to go. Up until then, they were determined to 'go down swinging'. But once they realised that they could actually do it, they tightened up, as Richie said its as if they suddenly thought 'let's do it singles'. Not a criticism, just an observation of human nature I suppose.

But I guess we gave you all a right good scare

Brad Hodge (Australian reserve batsman and Flintoff's teammate at Lancashire) wrote before the start of the series that he regarded Andrew as the most explosive and dangerous cricketer in the world, and a superior all-rounder to Kallis. He said that he would be the only Englishman to walk straight into the Aussie test side, and he would have a major bearing on the outcome of the Ashes.

Well, kudos to you Brad, and well played Andrew ... erm.. I mean England

Onto Old Trafford now. Rumblings from down under suggest that MacGill and Shane Watson will come into the squad. I don't rate Watson, but I'm happy to be proved otherwise.

[dave birch]

Indeed, pg, If the Old Trafford pitch is a turner, then SCG MCGill will get a run. He's a bigger turner of the ball than Warne. What lets him down is his accuracy.

For me, the biggest let down is the standard of umpiring. There have been some glaring errors. They are getting too many decisions wrong.

[pg]

Geez, I think you're a bit harsh dave.

I think the standard of umpiring has been superb. They are never going to get everything 100% right, and even Hawkeye has its faults.

I think what is worrying the Aussies is can they play Warne and MacGill in a team without McGrath? If you turn up to OT with only Lee and Gillespie (or Lee and Kaspa), what happens if Lee does a '1st innings' as opposed to a '2nd innings'?

As you say, MacGill tends to be rather expensive, which makes the use of McGrath at the other end so much more important to keep the runs down.

Edited August 8, 2005 by pg

[dave birch]

pg, I don't expect the umps to be 100% , but some of the errors (not just in this series) have been somewhat basic. They are full time professionals now.

As for "Hawkeye", I gave up on that when I saw how much out that it can be.

What's the betting that McGrath returns for the OT test.

Personally, I wouldn't play Lee, he's far too erratic. I'd take a punt with Tait.

My Aussie bowling line up would be McGrath/Warne/McGill/Tait with backup from Clarke(who got 6 for on a turner in India).

[neekoy]

My bowling line up for Lord's would be Lee, Kaspa, McKilla and SK. Gillespie has been dissapointing for 12 months now.

The standard of umpiring has been woeful, giving Peiterson out, NOT giving Peiterson out, the numerous LBW decisions against Warne, Lee's lbw appeal in the second innings against Jones when he was plum inline with middlestump, the dodgy lbw's against Langer and Gillespie in the first innings, Martyn getting away with being caught behind on a nick I heard in Australia.

[Exiled_Rover]

Brad Hodge (Australian reserve batsman and Flintoff's teammate at Lancashire) wrote before the start of the series that he regarded Andrew as the most explosive and dangerous cricketer in the world, and a superior all-rounder to Kallis.  He said that he would be the only Englishman to walk straight into the Aussie test side, and he would have a major bearing on the outcome of the Ashes.

Well, kudos to you Brad, and well played Andrew ... erm.. I mean England 

Onto Old Trafford now.  Rumblings from down under suggest that MacGill and Shane Watson will come into the squad.  I don't rate Watson, but I'm happy to be proved otherwise.

337490[/snapback]

Pietersen, Flintoff and Harmison would walk into the Australian side on the basis of the Ashes so far

And I rate Watson quite highly, go figure

[pg]

dave - I've read McGrath's ankle is still so swollen they can't accurately examine it yet. There is talk of him missing the rest of the series.

Personally, I think he'll be back, although I suppose it will be a question of for how many tests.

[Shaddy]

what happens if Lee does a '1st innings' as opposed to a '2nd innings'?

337495[/snapback]

Lee's problem, even when he is taking wickets, is that he is so expensive. So, regardless of if he does a 1st or 2nd innings, it won't be ideal for how Ponting will want to use Warne.

Ponting's also got to up his game as captain. His decision making has to be spot on if he wants to emulate his predecessors, and it plainly hasn't been.

Also, how long do we wait for Hayden to get his act together... anyone know of a decent alternative for opener than him? I thought Clarke was an opener, but he is batting in the middle order. I've been a little out of touch over the last season or so, so what's going on there?

[pg]

Clarke isn't an opener.

Neither is Hodge.

If you wanted to get rid of Hayden, you'd probably promote Katich to open. He has deputised for Hayden in one-dayers.

The aussies didn't take a traditional 'third opener' as they used to.

[Blueboy Downunder]

i must agree with you dave regarding the umpires and getting things wrong. people might agree with me here that overall i think the umpires have had a decent series so far. however we all accept that they are gonna get things wrong but the things they are getting wrong are not close decisions....they are big glaring errors.

i don't agree with using technology for everything in cricket as it would take away the whole human element of the game.

hopefully at old trafford we can have a really good game from the umpires without too mnay big mistakes.

[Shaddy]

A bit of fun. Went to http://www.gizoogle.com/ and entered the BBC news front page URL. Got:

from http://sites.gizoogle.com/?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk

England clinch thrill'n victory

England complete a doggy stylin' two-run win over Australia in tha second Tizzy ta level tha Ashes at 1-1 so bow down to the bow wow.

bow wow

[Flopsy]

bloody great game.

Some great bits of sportsmanship. Warne congratulating Freddie on his innings on Saturday and Freddie consoling Lee after Harmy got the last wicket.

Anyone know where I can find that picture?

[pg]

[dave birch]

BBDU, I think that "technology" has no place in cricket. Part of the charm of the game is the acceptance of the umpires decision as final, but then so was the idea of "walking".

pg, Alcott would have had the swelling down in an hour or so. An MRI would have found any damage. I have this sneaking feeling that things aren't as bad as is being made out.

Edited August 8, 2005 by dave birch

[Flopsy]

Your probably right Dave, but, McGrath's no spring chicken anymore and it is likely that they will try and give him a rest because whats more important? McGrath fully fit for the last two games, or rushing him back for OT only for his ankle to go again.

And if i was Austrailia - id leave him a bit longer to sort it out rather than risk him. With him you can win the series 3-2 (a big assumption that we win at OT) with him getting recrocked at Old Trafford you'll probably lose the series .

However Id drop Gillespie before I dropped Lee. Lee might well be eratic but when he gets the radar on target he gets wickets - Gillespie on the other hand is just pooh.

[Shaddy]

However Id drop Gillespie before I dropped Lee. Lee might well be eratic but when he gets the radar on target he gets wickets - Gillespie on the other hand is just pooh.

337530[/snapback]

You know, I've had been blaming the bowling attack, but I feel very angry at the failing Aussie batsman, and am now blaming them for putting too much pressure on the bowlers.

Out of the top order, only Langer is doing his job, and of the middle order Clarke and Katich. That leaves big names Hayden, Ponting, Martyn (perhaps to a lesser extent) and most disappointingly, Gilchrist all failing in my opinion. This lot are meant to be experienced (and include the Captain and Vice-captain).

Out of that lot, I've already had enough of Hayden. He seems a weak character to me, and I am hoping we can find a suitable replacement.

[Flopsy]

To be honest you are facing, probably the best attacking bowling line up in the world at the moment. If McGraths not playing. And Ashley Giles isnt the king of spain for nothing you know (theres an insider joke if there ever was)

[pg]

Out of that lot, I've already had enough of Hayden. He seems a weak character to me, and I am hoping we can find a suitable replacement.

337533[/snapback]

I take it you didn't watch a single game of the 2000 series in India where Hayden was a man mountain who singlehandedly kept Australia in the series?!

The first batsman in history to score over 1000 runs in four successive years?!?

Out of form - yes.

'Weak character'!?!

But I do agree. The Aussie batsman are underperforming. Having spent the last few seasons bludgeoning other nation's bowling attacks, they've forgotten how to construct a test innings and concentrate.

Now they are facing a decent pace attack for the first time since the great West Indian sides, and they keep getting themselves out (Langer excepted).

[Scotty]

For the first time in a long time the Aussies are facing a bowling attack who can exploit their technical flaws. They've not had to examine their games too much in recent years but now they are facing a stiff examination and some of them are coming up short.

England's batting line up has the same problems. The likes of Trescothick, Strauss and Vaughan have all performed magnificently against mediocre teams but are now seeing their flaws exposed.

As for the last test, what a match. England thoroughly outplayed their opponents for most of the game, so it shows the character of the Aussies to get so close at then end. But this England team are used to winning now and up stepped Harmi just when we needed him.

To be honest though it should never have even been a contest. After Ponting's ridiculous decision to put England in, we had the opportunity to score 600 in the first innings but blew it by playing too agressively. We seemed to get carried away by the atmosphere and the occasion and too many of our batsmen gave their wicket away after getting good starts. It just needed one of them to knuckle down and get a big hundred but no-one was disciplined enough to do it.

Still, we won and that's all that really matters. Knocks a few of those 5-0 to the Aussies predictions out of the water anyway.

The toss will be crucial at Old Trafford. OT has a reputation for turning but it has also been a great batting wicket all season. Whoever wins the toss will bat and will have to score big runs if they want to win - especially if its England as Warne (and maybe McGill) will become a bigger threat as the game goes on. Thursday would be a good time for Vaughan to win his first toss of the series.

[den]

The groundsman at Old Trafford says the pitch is an absolute belter. The reports of it turning square on the first day are laughable.

He reckons it should stay flat and even for the first three days and maybe take a little spin on the fourth day.

From that it doesn't make sense to go with two spinners.

[Flopsy]

its just mind games den, mind games

who cares about football eh?