The Convicts Return

[Flopsy]

True, but they aint happened yet.

I think its going to be the closest series for a long time.

Anyway - we won the Rugby World Cup in your back yard.

That was sweet

[pg]

True, but they aint happened yet.

I think its going to be the closest series for a long time.

Anyway - we won the Rugby World Cup in your back yard.

That was sweet

331012[/snapback]

Just as well I don't give a rat's arse about Rugby isn't it?

[neekoy]

Anyway - we won the Rugby World Cup in your back yard.

331012[/snapback]

As we did in '91 and '99 in WC rugby and '99 in the WC cricket

Edited July 12, 2005 by neekoy

[brfcshabba]

Good to see another solid start by the top three batsmen

74-3 off 20 overs

[Roaming Rover]

87 for 5 off 25 overs

[pg]

Good fightback from England at the moment.

Watching the Aussies drop two catches in two overs was priceless

I felt so sorry for Gillespie...but to his credit he's manged to pick up a few wickets. But Pietersen is getting stuck into him now...

..until he hit over the top of the slower ball.

Edited July 12, 2005 by pg

[T4E]

Cracking response from Pietersen, Solanki and Giles to yet again make up for the ineptitude of their more established colleagues (namely Trescothick and Vaughan).

Aside from his innings last week (which he deserves a lot of credit for) Trescothick has been more hinderance than help to England so far this Summer, the only saving grace for him being the comparitve performance of his captain.

For your captain to get himself run out in a game like this is completely inexcusable. Vaughan has shown himself up on a number of occasions with his decisions, both as a batsmen and a captain, and should England fail to reclaim the Ashes I fully expect his position to be reviewed. His decision today on the substitution has so far been vindicated, but the vast majority of the credit for that must go to Solanki.

Further dishonourable mentions must go to Flintoff (a return to form from him with the bat is vital if England are to turn over the rock-breakers when it really matters), and Strauss, who again really needs to get his eye in if he wants to retain his place.

Pietersen has surely now cemented his place in the middle order of the test team (more than likely alongside Bell than Thorpe I'd have thought), and Solanki has proved he is a more than capable 12th man, who on todays evidence will soon be knocking firmly on the door for a starting place, atleast in limited overs cricket. I fear for England's chances this Summer with the poor form of the opening batsmen in mind - we can only hope that in test match conditions they can take advantage of the relaxed pressure from a time keeping point of view, and start to put some scores together. I'm not that confident.

[Shaddy]

Yay That's the rather large entrée completed. Bring on the main course, the Ashes (that really would taste terrible).

[jobo380]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned it but im finding the new one day rules quite hard to grasp especially the subs rule which i think i have got a plan for so that i doesnt matter whether you win or lose the toss.

England (for example)

trescothick

strauss

vaughan

pietersen

solanki

collingwood

jones

giles

gough

harmison

jones

sub:Flintoff or collingwood

i think this works but its just hard to get my head around it, now if you bat first you can bring on an extra bowler in the other innings or the other way round you can replace a bowler.

in a perfect world you would still have flintoff in the team at the start and then have another all rounder as sub cos with this selection you are left a bit bare if bowling first.

what does everyone else think?

[Manchester Blue]

Cracking response from Pietersen, Solanki and Giles to yet again make up for the ineptitude of their more established colleagues (namely Trescothick and Vaughan).

Aside from his innings last week (which he deserves a lot of credit for) Trescothick has been more hinderance than help to England so far this Summer, the only saving grace for him being the comparitve performance of his captain.

For your captain to get himself run out in a game like this is completely inexcusable. Vaughan has shown himself up on a number of occasions with his decisions, both as a batsmen and a captain, and should England fail to reclaim the Ashes I fully expect his position to be reviewed. His decision today on the substitution has so far been vindicated, but the vast majority of the credit for that must go to Solanki.

Further dishonourable mentions must go to Flintoff (a return to form from him with the bat is vital if England are to turn over the rock-breakers when it really matters), and Strauss, who again really needs to get his eye in if he wants to retain his place.

331434[/snapback]

Let's not get carried away here, we have been pretty poor in the one day game for a while now and it will take time to improve that. However to suggest Vaughan's position should be reviewed is just nonsense. Anyone who has followed England over the last 4 or 5 years will see that this current side is unrecognisable from the previous one. Whilst his form is not spot on his contribution to that change cannot be underestimated.

We are currently 2nd in the rankings for test matches. We were just above Zimbabwe when Vaughan took over, don't forget that.

[Bijani]

I think I will get carried away here....WHO'S HITTING FORM NOW!!! YOU BLOODY RIPPER!!! Cant wait for next week. Just try and stop us.

[neekoy]

I am not a fan of these new rules, as the old saying goes it's just not cricket.

Even though Australia won I am still dissapointed with these new rules that gave England a lifeline. What is wrong with a crushing defeat these days?

[SouthAussieRover]

Well I'll just take a brief moment out from hols in NZ to say this is shaping up to be an overrated England team.

Not long to go now

[pg]

Geez you guys don't learn do you?!?

A toss of the coin on a green-top wicket and suddenly Australia could be down 1-0 in the Ashes. Don't count your chickens yet.

Although as David Lloyd pointed out last night :

1) The first test is at Lords

2) The Ashes are very late in a warm English summer

3) The pitches are likely to be fast and flat, and wear a lot during days 4 to 5.

Those aren't good from an English point of view.

[jim mk2]

Although as David Lloyd pointed out last night :

1) The first test is at Lords

2) The Ashes are very late in a warm English summer

3) The pitches are likely to be fast and flat, and wear a lot during days 4 to 5.

331673[/snapback]

Correct, unfortunately.

The stupid ECB, in its quest to make as much money as possible with a grossly overloaded fixture list and meaningless one-day tournaments, have played right into the hands of the enemy.

[Timmy]

I think it's the end of Darren Gough's England days..he's looked well below par this series.

[Lee]

He only plays in the one dayers

thankfully

[T4E]

Let's not get carried away here, we have been pretty poor in the one day game for a while now and it will take time to improve that.  However to suggest Vaughan's position should be reviewed is just nonsense.  Anyone who has followed England over the last 4 or 5 years will see that this current side is unrecognisable from the previous one.  Whilst his form is not spot on his contribution to that change cannot be underestimated.

We are currently 2nd in the rankings for test matches.  We were just above Zimbabwe when Vaughan took over, don't forget that.

331516[/snapback]

I do not dispute your comments on Vaughan's previous achievements in the slightest - on paper he looks a very successful captain. On the other hand, you could attribute a lot of the improvement to the improvement of the players available - the emergence of Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Pietersen and a few others have enabled England to rescue games that would've otherwise carried on sliding into utter embarresment. Pietersen's performances in SA saved Vaughan's blushes - slightly embarrasing would've become utterly humiliating had it not been for his form.

I must confess, I do rate Vaughan as a Test match player and as a captain - perhaps I should've said he should primarily have his role as ODI captain reviewed. I feel that during limited overs cricket he is a millstone around England's neck, and his spot could be used much more effectively elsewhere. So far this Summer, if you had to pick England's most consistent under-performer, you would have to go for Vaughan. He has given his wicket away cheaply on far too many occasions, and certainly wont be going into the Ashes high on confidence.

If your captain is out of form, you've got problems from the very start.

[Manchester Blue]

Don't disagree with that Toogs. I think that Vaughan struggles to justify a place in the One Day side. However at test level I think he has proved his quality and I certainly don't think his position should be in any doubt.

[pg]

Most batsmen always suffer a drop in form when they are made captain.

Ricky Ponting went for almost a whole year without a century when he was made captain.

Mark Taylor made a pair on debut as captain

The 'greats' will flourish with the captaincy role (e.g. Viv Richards, Allan Border) but for some (e.g. Tendulkar, Lara) it becomes too much of a distraction.

[T4E]

Would certainly agree with that PG - Atherton and Stewart arguable had their best days for England while the other was in charge. Players like Lara and Tendulkar are selfishly brilliant - single-mindedness at the crease is one of their major strengths, the ability to go out and play without worrying too much about anyone else.

Ok, time for cold, hard stats.

Vaughan since becoming captain has been on a gradual decline. He excelled under Hussain, his performance in the Ashes tour of 2003 was one of the greatest by an English batsmen vs Australia - totalling well over 600 for the series. His knock in the 5th test springs to mind. He was even named Man of the Series - and we lost 4-1!! There were two near double centuries the year before in the series vs India. Vaughan scored 9 test match centuries for England before being made captain when Hussain resigned after the series vs SA. Since being made captain he has only made 5. Coincidence? I would much rather have Trescothick as captain and Vaughan back to his pre Summer '03 form.

(For the record, I'm not a complete statto, I did look some of that up)

[modes98]

For the first ashes test

England squad: M E Trescothick, A J Strauss, M P Vaughan (Capt), I R Bell, K P Pietersen, A Flintoff, G O Jones (Wkt), A Giles, S P Jones, M J Hoggard, S J Harmison, C T Tremlett.

Thorpe dropped for Pietersen and Tremlett gets a call up!

[T4E]

Pretty standard and unsurprising stuff. It's a decent squad, slightly disappointed that Jon Lewis has slipped down the pecking order, but thats pure geographical bias.

[American]

When do the Ashes start?

[modes98]

first test is thursday!

1st Test    Thu 21 - Mon 25 Jul    Lord's  
2nd Test    Thu 04 - Mon 8 Aug     Edgbaston  
3rd Test    Thu 11 - Mon 15 Aug    Old Trafford  
4th Test    Thu 25 - Mon 29 Aug    Trent Bridge  
5th Test    Thu 08 - Mon 12 Sep    Brit Oval  

Edited July 15, 2005 by modes98