Major Incident In London

[philipl]

Why your opinion is always the right one Eddie?  Why nobody should ever hold anything other than your opinion!    Spoken just like an arrogant still-wet-behind-the-ears 18 year old Eddie.  Its difficult to believe that you can have the temerity and arrogance to think that you are always right.   

err......... when I think about it you could even be one of mine!  What was yer mums maiden name?

331286[/snapback]

This appeared three posts before mine Thenodrog.

I think describing it as odious was quite mild.

[Paul]

Before you chuck any more mud Nayef I would ask you to please qualify that accusation about me having obvious extreme right wing views by quoting any of my posts on this thread that would back up your statement.

I await your response with interest and if you cannot then I trust that either admin or moderators will take appropriate action against you in accordance with the board rules. 

Mods.........These wild accusations are both rude and insulting, and its notable that Philipl could find nothing to back up a similar accusation on page 13 /14 either. 

332428[/snapback]

Please do not start down that line theno. We've been there before and in the current climate I do not wish to go there again. If you want the rules strictly applied to others be prepared to accept the same for yourself.

[Paul]

On Thursday I was whizzing along the A50 towards Derby at 12.00. I was very surprised by the number of people, myself included, who pulled into the Services, parked, stood by their cars for two mintues and then whizzed off again. Even the road seemed to go quiet.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The enemy within

"When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. ''

Warped beyond belief.

Edited July 16, 2005 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[roversWASmylife]

My condolences goes out to the families who have lost loved ones.

Turkish resort blast kills four

The world has gone mad.

[blue phil]

Could you please expand on that "I think we all know the real reason ..... a bit risky.. " comment. I've no idea what you are referring to.

332554[/snapback]

Yawn....if you've no idea , then you are as simple as you are borrring.......I'm sure everyone knows exactly what I'm implying .

(For a clue see SG 194's link . Maybe , just maybe there are such people like that in Blackburn as there are in Leeds , Bradford , London etc etc . Sad to say , Col , but my knowledge in this area - as supported by my posts over the years - is way beyond yours )

[Rovermatt]

I've got to admit that I share some of the feelings from both sides of the debate.

Knowing as much as we do about the "bombers" I can understand the feelings of Theno, BP and ASEF, after all the "bombers" are of stock that migrated to England and, to my mind, should have assymilated and become English.

If you don't want to feel and be English, then go to Pakistan if you feel more Pakistani, or to Saudi or to Iran or Australia for that matter.

331884[/snapback]

That's the frightening thing. These guys were integrated to a certain degree. They were British born, educated and part of the local community. They had family, financial and social ties that did not mark them out as unusual, dangerous or unhinged. They weren't living alone, spouting nonsense on loud speakers outside the local mosque, or reading the Koran upside down. These lunatics were fathers, brothers, employees and tax-payers. Then one day four of them left their houses and families with the sole purpose of murdering innocent people. They didn't care who they killed, but were willing to end their own lives for some twisted take on their religion. They were attacking the West and that was enough.

It's sickening and no end of right v. left bickering on here can change the fact that this was a horrific crime. The deaths of those people going to and from work shouldn't be sullied by personal feuds.

[broadsword]

Reading the 'paper (the Mail for what it's worth) yesterday, rather interesting interview with a muslim ... he was stating that "mainstream Islam" is too moderate, and "real Islam" is practised in private, in people's front rooms.

He also said that life was made so intolerable (?) for muslims in the UK that they wanted to commit suicide bombings so that they'd go to heaven, which is obviously a nicer place to live. Not his exact words, but the exact sentiment, believe me.

Sorry to trivialise, but I'm not too enamoured about where I live, but I'd rather s0d off somewhere else on planet Earth than meet my maker, plenty of time for that afterwards.

He also said he had real respect for the bombers, and would carry an attack out himself if he wasn't a coward.

Now I know that this newspaper is hardly the 'paper of record, but the interview was conducted by Imran Khan (used to work for the Beeb), and it didn't come across as a hatchet job.

All in all, a bit scary.

[Eddie]

Yes, normal people do horrible things. Just because they are muslims suddenly the fact that they were otherwise normal but committed a horrific crime is made into a shocking and terrifying fact. There have always been lunatics who, for one reason or another, have been willing to do horrible things, they have been black, white, arab, asian and they have often been rather regular and normal people, who no one in their community would have thought anything of.

It is because of this that we cannot then say that we shouldn't let anyone in, that you have to be a pure British white citizen in order to be in this country and if you aren't you better have a damn good reason exactly why you're here, like being a footballer.

It was their fear and hatred of what this country could do that led them to do what they did, sadly, it is the fear and hatred of many that could, if we lisened to certain members of this board, lead us to do something equally horrible, to not only kill 50 odd people, but to deprive thousands, if not millions, of of law abiding and safe lives in a country that they love. What you preach is no better than any muslim cleric calling for a religious war.

[Wiggy]

It was their fear and hatred of what this country could do that led them to do what they did,

I'm of the belief that we in the UK should remain as calm as possible and not over react to the terrorist atrocities. However, this naive, apologist rot is as nauseating as that spouted by the most extremist imams outside Finchley Park mosque.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

It was their fear and hatred of what this country could do that led them to do what they did

Sorry Eddie but that's pap.This country and its people have accommodated them with housing and welfare benefits.This country has helped them recieve an education and a standard of living well beyond anything possible in Pakistan etc.

NO EXCUSES.

[Eddie]

I'm not making an exuse, but there can be no doubting that the reason there are muslims anywhere in the world doing what they are doing is because of a fear and hatred of the western world being spread throughout the religion based on the actions we take in islamic areas. Of course I don't agree with this and most muslims would agree that they have nothing to fear and that they are in no way being made targets, but it is still what they feel.

[thenodrog]

It was their fear and hatred of what this country could do that led them to do what they did,

332623[/snapback]

Eddie you are trying to defend the indefensible. If it was just this country (I assume you mean Britain and not France) then you may have a point but it's obviously not. The islamic world is at odds with so many other countries and religions. There may be differences between religions but is there this level of animosity between Christian and Hindu's? Sikhs and Buddhist? Orthodox and Jew or any combination thereof? How many of them fly planes into crowded buildings or blow up trains, schools, theatres etc? Yet every one of those major religions has serious and ongoing issues with the Islamic world! How many people of all religions are murdered each year all over the world by Islamic extremists in the name of Islam? You have to admit that it is a common thread that you simply cannot ignore. Personally I'm absolutely sick to death of reading about atrocities carried out in the name of this intolerant, backward and pointless religion.

[Eddie]

Actually, I'm not defending what they did, rather I'm attacking what you are saying. I'm not trying to say what they did wasn't so bad, I'm trying to say what you are all preaching is equally as horrible. As much as there may be a common theme as to how many killed in the name of islam there is an equally common theme as to how many are killed in the name of judaism, for example.

[thenodrog]

Right Philip, lets look at this objectively should we?

I replied to your inaccurate and spiteful accusation........

"I couldn't believe that you named me there Philip. I have posted nothing that you could categorise as odious imo. Sure I've castigated a few numpties who do not appear to know what a state of emergency means but I challenge you to be specific and quote any posts on this thread where my views are inaccurate or offensive toward affected people. When you cannot find any then I suggest that you take your head from up your vindictive arse and get back to sipping your red wine whilst gazing at the sunset from your supremely priveledged vantage point and stick to commenting on what appears to be the one thing that you do appear to know something about........ the finances at BRFC.

And I'm still waiting.  Wassup having trouble cutting and pasting or is it having to admit that you are wrong?

332520[/snapback]

And the following quote is the best example of me being "offensive toward affected people" that you can come up with Philip?.........

"This appeared three posts before mine Thenodrog.

I think describing it as odious was quite mild.

QUOTE(thenodrog @ Jul 11 2005, 23:41 )

Why your opinion is always the right one Eddie? Why nobody should ever hold anything other than your opinion! Spoken just like an arrogant still-wet-behind-the-ears 18 year old Eddie. Its difficult to believe that you can have the temerity and arrogance to think that you are always right.

err......... when I think about it you could even be one of mine! What was yer mums maiden name?

Talk about clutching at straws in trying to justify your own stupidity! Offensive?..... The last two sentences were even followed by humerous smileys ffs! As your post displays tour total lack of a sense of humour I'll explain the humour s l o w l y for you to digest in your own good time. The first smiley was to accompany 'irony' whilst the second was to accompany 'humour'. You can look em up in the dictionary when you have a minute. As it stands you've just made a right **** of yourself. Even Eddie didn't complain. I suggest that when you are in a hole its best to stop digging!.......... and until then butt out.

[thenodrog]

As much as there may be a common theme as to how many killed in the name of islam there is an equally common theme as to how many are killed in the name of judaism, for example.

332733[/snapback]

Where and When? Name any similar actions carried out across the globe and against every major religion in the name of Judaism in the last 18 years Eddie please. (Other than in retaliatory actions taken as a matter of policy in response to palestinian atrocities).

Edited July 16, 2005 by thenodrog

[Eddie]

Well it depends if you consider the actions Israel takes as retaliatory, personally I don't.

[Dr Gonzo]

some may find this offensive

edit: so i've deleted it

Edited July 16, 2005 by Dr Gonzo

[Dan Furness]

Image of the 4 bombers together now on BBC site

[broadsword]

  (Other than in retaliatory actions taken as a matter of policy in response to palestinian atrocities).

332737[/snapback]

Whoah!

I hope you're not insinuating that the Israelis are a peaceful bunch who only draw arms when one of those horrid suicide bombers leaves the utopian sanctuary of the West Bank, that the Israelis have magnanimously let the Arabs have the use of, and blows himself up in Jerusalem?

[MCMC1875]

Quite right.

Edited July 17, 2005 by MCMC1875

[bellamy11]

Whoah!

I hope you're not insinuating that the Israelis are a peaceful bunch who only draw arms when one of those horrid suicide bombers leaves the utopian sanctuary of the West Bank, that the Israelis have magnanimously let the Arabs have the use of, and blows himself up in Jerusalem?

332757[/snapback]

He was, but I'd like to see how he spins it so that you're apparently the stupid one.

[Paul]

[broadsword]

Just one comment I'd like to make after what I'd said earlier about Islam ...

I still remember some of the stuff I read about the civil war in Yugoslavia ... specifically the cellar the UN(?) found and all of the implements of torture within that had been used on Muslim women and children.

It sickened me to the core. How can human beings do this to each other? Aren't we supposedly at the top of the evolutionary chain?

Without in any way devaluing what has happened in London it should be remembered that this has happened on a much larger scale in Iraq, yet another car bomb has gone off there.

Why is the dichotomy always "good" guys versus "bad" guys (as defined by country/ religion etc)? It's simplistic and to me is the new opium of the congregation. Perhaps people are fed of of watching WW2 movies and need a new war to be conducted on TV to satiate their desires. Or maybe that's Tony Blair's perception as he makes his latest attempt at Churchillian oratory, with just the hint of witheld tears just for the readers of women's mags, just to give us an emotive gee-up and stop us from thinking about what's really going on.

I feel more commonality with the suppressed people of Kosovo, Iraq, East Timor, than I do with the leaders of my own country.

A better characterisation would be those who want to live in peace and those who are happy to let others die to feed their own twisted religious/ political aims.

Why can't Mad Mullahs/ Tony Blair/ George Bush/ Thenodrog fight their own wars, and let the rest of us live our lives in peace?

[joey_big_nose]

The enemy within

"When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. ''

Warped beyond belief.

332585[/snapback]

It is amazing that people who open;y espouse views like this can walk the streets.

Anybody who admits that they are willing to commit murder should be locked up.

Can anyone clarify whether he new legiislation that comes through will put such dispicable people as these behind bars?

Youthful bravado or not there is no place for this in our society.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another point I do not really see the current situation as a result of US foreign policy. While the Iraq war was broadly questionable it was clearly not an attack on Islam nor was it motivated by any real sinister motives. It was, for right or wrong, conducted in order to relieve the possiblity of further outrages and, one suspects, to give the US voters a feeling that something was being done. In the long run the residents of Iraq will, unless extrmeists hijack the whole thing, do very well out of it.

Israel aside, whose creation is not down to the US but rather a Western phenomena, the US has been a positive force for the Middle East- it provides huge investment and has constantly striven to stabalise rather than destabalise the region. A peaceful Middle East keeps oil prices down and people not getting ruthlessly killed- something that, despite some amaxingly hysterical Americanophobia in Europe and the Middle East, the US approves of.

We are in a bizarre situation. The US and the UK only want the terrorism to stop, they have utterly no desire to subjegate or imprison or enslave the peoles of the middle East. They are there for security reasons, not to conquer. Th Oil interest plays iit role but only to the extent that we need reasonably priced oil in sufficent quanity for our economies not to collapse. If we could get fuel from another place believe me we would. Yet the US and UK are getting attacked for being invaders and subjugators.

We are not against prosperity in the Middle East, we are not against religion in the Middle East, we are not against the people of the Middle East.

The terrorism is, in my book, founded on deprevation (which is not the US's fault but rather created by under developed economies and these countries own regeimes) and volatile rhetoric rarely grounded in reallity.

The US could withdraw tomorrow but the whole region would go into meltdown. What the people of the middle east have to realise , and I think most of them do, is that a United States fostering democracy and development in their region is better for each and every one of them in terms of liberties, prosperity and progress than these crazy @#/?s who want to impose a strict religious system upon them and once in charge doubt blow the hell out of each other for the next century.