Major Incident In London

[colin]

Right Philip, lets look at this objectively should we?

And the following quote is the best example of me being offensive...

Got lots more matey:perhaps offensive doesn't quite suit but either patronising or arrogant might just fit:

Rem you have 2 eyes and 1 mouth....... please try to use them in that order.

Sorry but I cannot condone stupidity and ignorance and particularly not on a subject as serious

as this thread.  Grow up. 

at every opportunity that you are intellectually threatened is pathetic and infantile and is typical of a lynch-mob mentality

I always thought that high temperatures affected people with excessive body fat most.

Eh? Sorry but I dont understand that last response...... c0ck. 

Silly sod! You know I have never said that. Why are you being so stupidly emotive? Try to stay rational

Dont be childish. You arguments are becoming more and more juvenile and stupid.

not descend to the politics of the playground Stu.

Sorry Stu but I did warn you, with you continually resorting to an infantile 'Yah boo sucks' type argument and you attempting to put words in my mouth I decided that our own personal 'debate' had gone well past its sell-by date. The day that I have to continually explain myself over and over again to intellectual pygmies is the day to wrap it up.

Choose your own rebuttal from the following as both apply....... Life is too short / Sorry but I dont suffer fools gladly.

It's that Phillip, he just doesn't do his reseach properly does he?

[joey_big_nose]

Why is the dichotomy always "good" guys versus "bad" guys (as defined by country/ religion etc)? It's simplistic and to me is the new opium of the congregation. Perhaps people are fed of of watching WW2 movies and need a new war to be conducted on TV to satiate their desires. Or maybe that's Tony Blair's perception as he makes his latest attempt at Churchillian oratory, with just the hint of witheld tears just for the readers of women's mags, just to give us an emotive gee-up and stop us from thinking about what's really going on.

I feel more commonality with the suppressed people of Kosovo, Iraq, East Timor, than I do with the leaders of my own country.

A better characterisation would be those who want to live in peace and those who are happy to let others die to feed their own twisted religious/ political aims.

Why can't Mad Mullahs/ Tony Blair/ George Bush/ Thenodrog fight their own wars, and let the rest of us live our lives in peace?

332776[/snapback]

I always like you posts Brian but there are a couple of things I have to say about this one.

Firstly, why such a downer on politicians. You talk as if Blair relishes sending kids out to die to sate his own ego. That is completely and utterly unfounded, insulting and degrading. Even if you oppose the Iraq war, a quite tenable position, it is completely another thing to say that Blair did it for pure wnwholsome motives.

Remember he gained nothing out of it, in fact he lost votes. It was probably the most difficult decision of his entire life.

I hate it when people attack politicains who have broadly speaking done little wrong (Archer, Mandleson, Nixon is a different matter...). They are all self interested, yes. But in the same way we will all moneuver for promotions and try to appease those who pay our wages. I have never seen anything in Tony Blair, or John Major, or any others which has suggested that they are any more disgusting than the average man you sit next to at work, or even the man who sits in your own chair.

Tell me- do you really think Blair sent people to die for his career? Do you think he let all those Iraqi's get blown to bits for an extra line in a history book? Do you think an entire cabinet of people who, I am sure, are just as intellectually capable as you and I would of sat there and looked at all the evidence and said- "oh, its obviously not justified in any way, but we will support it to for Tony, and maybe people will give us credit too, let those kids, those civilians die". Does that sound even plausible?

Robin Cook spoke against it, but he never questioned that Blair was doing it out of anything other than the best intentions.

And lastly, would you make a better Prime Minister? Does anybody think they would on this board? Thats an interesting question (I know I wouldnt). We bleat but we do nothing, and we vote the fekkers in. One day we will get someone in who is as bad as we say then we are doomed.

There was a second point but I will leave that out for now.... I have written enough.

[broadsword]

I don't think there was any morale aspect to Tony Blair committing to the war, otherwise, we would've found WMD, wouldn't we?

Personally, my suspicion is that something happens when you get into office that means any idealistic notions (if you ever had them) get chucked out of the window.

[joey_big_nose]

I don't think there was any morale aspect to Tony Blair committing to the war, otherwise, we would've found WMD, wouldn't we?

Personally, my suspicion is that something happens when you get into office that means any idealistic notions (if you ever had them) get chucked out of the window.

332784[/snapback]

Blair could have just been wrong about it, made a mistake.

Or, probably far more likely, is he thought the ends justified the means. He exaggerated the likelhood of of WMDs existing in order to get public support, and reasoned that toppling a dictator and liberating millions of lives, presenting a strong front to the terrorists and maintaing some kind of influence on Washington was worth it. A dubious method but this is not borne out of self interested or poor intentions.

And yes I do agree that idealism goes out the window, you have to broadly appease 60 million people of diverse views so to plug a single narrow agenda is virtually hopeless, and will ultimately lead to you being ousted. That does not mean that they have no morals though, just that they are practicle, just as we all are really, to one extent or another.

[blue phil]

It was their fear and hatred of what this country could do that led them to do what they did, sadly, it is the fear and hatred of many that could, if we lisened to certain members of this board, lead us to do something equally horrible, to not only kill 50 odd people, but to deprive thousands, if not millions, of of law abiding and safe lives in a country that they love. What you preach is no better than any muslim cleric calling for a religious war.

332623[/snapback]

Never have I read such a more nauseating , apologistic tome as this . In the past couple of weeks I've visited a few web sites , Muslim ones also - none of them have spouted such claptrap . Comparing the comments of members of this board to muslim clerics calling for a religious war .....Dear God Almighty , it's time you grew up , Eddie and developed a sense of perspective .

[SouthAussieRover]

I.m really glad I no longer I moderate some of the ###### posted on this forum.

Commiserations to all those involved in and affected by the bombings.

[Drummer Boy]

Well done, Joey big nose and Bryan for bringing some maturity, thought and consideration back to this thread - long overdue!!

I agree with the thoughts on Blair who has reacted very carefully to try to avoid a kneejerk reaction to the wider Muslim community in the UK.

Likewise, the US do get a bad press in the Middle East

However, the greater concern to me is linked to the above but more local: How have we got to the situation where British people feel the need to blow each other up and how does this link back to the points raised about the US, Israel and Palestine?

This might take us to the root cause of last week's events.

[MCMC1875]

Disaffected people are easy targets for those with radical agendas - hard to change that. It would be more constructive in the long run to work to prevent people becoming disaffected wouldn't it?

[pg]

Thenodrog - just for the records :

Buddhists and Hindus have been at it for years in Sri Lanka. And yes, there are Buddhist 'extremists' and Buddhist suicide bombers.

There were various Jewish terrorist groups running around Palestine just before and during WW2. They blew up hotels, sent bombs in the mail..all the usual terrorist activities. See 'The Stern Gang' and 'Irgun'. Many of its members went into politics, and some became Prime Minister.

Needless to say all of the Christian troubles that the Europeans have had to put up with for the past 500 or so years.

Muslims do not have a monopoly on war and organised violence.

[MCMC1875]

Is

Edited July 17, 2005 by MCMC1875

[MCMC1875]

Last Friday.

Edited July 17, 2005 by MCMC1875

[Biddy]

Eh?

[stuwilky]

Last Friday I was waiting at the lights on Lower Audley Street next to a bloke in a battered Granada dressed in a Bin  Laden hat and a long beard. He had no tax disc - am I a racist or should I carry on motoring?

332843[/snapback]

Quite impressive vision you have to know there was no tax disk.

[thenodrog]

Personally, my suspicion is that something happens when you get into office that means any idealistic notions (if you ever had them) get chucked out of the window.

332784[/snapback]

Correct. So rule No 1.......... never vote for idealists no matter how they try to seduce your vote.

[thenodrog]

Quote Colin the gobshite.........oops there's another

"Rem you have 2 eyes and 1 mouth....... please try to use them in that order.

Sorry but I cannot condone stupidity and ignorance and particularly not on a subject as serious

as this thread. Grow up.

at every opportunity that you are intellectually threatened is pathetic and infantile and is typical of a lynch-mob mentality

I always thought that high temperatures affected people with excessive body fat most.

Eh? Sorry but I dont understand that last response...... c0ck.

Silly sod! You know I have never said that. Why are you being so stupidly emotive? Try to stay rational

Dont be childish. You arguments are becoming more and more juvenile and stupid.

not descend to the politics of the playground Stu.

Sorry Stu but I did warn you, with you continually resorting to an infantile 'Yah boo sucks' type argument and you attempting to put words in my mouth I decided that our own personal 'debate' had gone well past its sell-by date. The day that I have to continually explain myself over and over again to intellectual pygmies is the day to wrap it up.

Choose your own rebuttal from the following as both apply....... Life is too short / Sorry but I dont suffer fools gladly.

........It's that Phillip, he just doesn't do his reseach properly does he?

Neither do you numpty. (I feel that I should be doing this in capitals btw). This was my request to Philips accusation that I had been 'offensive toward affected people'......"but I challenge you to be specific and quote any posts on this thread where my views are inaccurate or offensive toward affected people.

He couldn't find anything to back it up and neither can you. So butt out, stop sh1t stirring and for once try to make a meaningful contribution to topics on this board!

Sorry if I am being a bit short with you Colin but like I said in the last quote "I do not suffer fools gladly".

I have not been offensive to affected people. Period.

[thenodrog]

oops

Edited July 17, 2005 by thenodrog

[thenodrog]

He was, but I'd like to see how he spins it so that you're apparently the stupid one.

332771[/snapback]

Not really. This is a complex problem and I agree that the Israeli's are short fused and somewhat intransigent, but given their recent history who can blame them if they are somewhat short of diplomacy? They had no country of their own and when Hitler got rid of 6,ooo,ooo it illustrated that weakness. Their state which is about the size of Yorkshire has been attacked with full military might from every neighbouring country in the last 30 odd years. Each one of these countries are still their sworn enemies. They have been bombed from distance and threatened with superguns etc by Saddam's Iraq, they appear to be the sworn enemies of every Islamic state. But for their wits and aggression they would cease to exist. Something that maybe our generation find difficult to comprehend,so maybe you should ask a grandparent to describe the publics fears in this country 60 years ago when 25 miles of sea was our main defence against Nazi occupation.

I suggest that living in Israel under constant threat of your life and your families life for a time would soon change your mocking mindset Bellamy........... and yours Paul.

[thenodrog]

Or maybe that's Tony Blair's perception as he makes his latest attempt at Churchillian oratory, with just the hint of witheld tears just for the readers of women's mags, just to give us an emotive gee-up and stop us from thinking about what's really going on.

332776[/snapback]

Please don't ever compare Blairs' snivelling speeches (those made after major and serious events) laced for extra effect with deep sighs and pregnant pauses with those of Churchill Bryan. Listening to some of Churchills speeches even now make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up whilst listening to Blair's make me want to vomit.

[Paul]

I suggest that living in Israel under constant threat of your life and your families life for a time would soon change your mocking mindset Bellamy........... and  yours Paul.

332894[/snapback]

theno I'd just like to point out I was laughing at bellamy's joke concerning your ability to put a spin on just about anything. I most certainly was not mocking anything connected to the debate in this thread.....but hey don't you waste an opportunity to have a dig at someone.

[thenodrog]

theno I'd just like to point out I was laughing at bellamy's joke concerning your ability to put a spin on just about anything. I most certainly was not mocking anything connected to the debate in this thread.....but hey don't you waste an opportunity to have a dig at someone.

332899[/snapback]

Oh right. My apologies for misunderstanding your 3 laughing smilies then. Maybe I'm a bit like those Israelis, attacked and threatened from all sides with the only answer to strike back harder.

[Paul]

Oh right.  My apologies for misunderstanding your 3 laughing smilies then.  Maybe I'm a bit like those Israelis, attacked and threatened from all sides with the only answer to strike back harder. 

332902[/snapback]

Thanks. Am I allowed to smile at the last bit?

[roversWASmylife]

Miaow

[Flopsy]

Poor Theno, my bleeding liberal heart bleeds for you

And theno, I agree Israel has had the right / need for them to protect themselves, brilliantly at times.

However the treatment of the Palastinians by the "State" of Israel has been atrocious, each act of violence returned with violence two fold.

I dont condone with the terrorists blowing up innocents becuase they have a problem but I can understand why they are slightly peeved about the situation. Same way that I understand why the IRA did what they did but not now and in no way do I condone the method.

[thenodrog]

Poor Theno, my bleeding liberal heart bleeds for you

And theno, I agree Israel has had the right / need for them to protect themselves, brilliantly at times.

However the treatment of the Palastinians by the "State" of Israel has been atrocious, each act of violence returned with violence two fold.

I dont condone with the terrorists blowing up innocents becuase they have a problem but I can understand why they are slightly peeved about the situation. Same way that I understand why the IRA did what they did but not now and in no way do I condone the method.

332930[/snapback]

Surely the situation is that if the Palestinians gave up bombing the Israeli's violent actions would cease whereas if the Israeli's gave up violence first the Palestinians would continue.

[colin]

I have not been offensive to affected people.  Period.

332887[/snapback]

OK, you're right. "Offensive" will suffice.