Major Incident In London

[Biddy]

And as for being in danger in brum - we're in as much danger as in london, but we dont have the safety in numbers due to the number of people who commute into brum compared to London.

Also I was in Hurst street a couple of years ago when the RIRA decided that they wanted to claim some car insurance and tried to blow up a car full of home made explosive. I was 150m away when they got the warning so dont talk to me about "safer" in birmingham.

335574[/snapback]

I still know which city I'd feel safer commuting in and out of at the moment.

Not sure what safety in numbers has to do with anything. If you're next to a bomb, you're dead simple as.

[blue phil]

Bravo Phil, a little insult and then neat side step, bravo sir bravo - have you put your applciation in for westminster yet - theyre missing one of the best by the looks of it.

335519[/snapback]

YAWN.....

[Flopsy]

Ole - another post avoiding questions bravo sir bravo

[MCMC1875]

What?

Edited July 29, 2005 by MCMC1875

[MCMC1875]

All 5 now bagged according To C4 news. Good work chaps!

Edited July 29, 2005 by MCMC1875

[cletus]

....& let the torture begin!

[blue phil]

Torture maybe , Cletus .....but it's occured to me that a judicial execution (ie one after a trial ! ) would leave us in breach of the Human Rights legislation . I'm not at all sure if our Gov't could re-introduce the death penalty without repealing the Euro HR laws - and maybe without leaving the EU altogether .

Still , it's nice to know that executions without trial on the streets are perfectly acceptable to many people - even , I'd guess , to those who are against the death penalty !!

One more thing ; what are the chances of the "British" bombers being tried for treason ? Or is that a politically incorrect charge these days ?

[bellamy11]

What penalty does treason incur these days? I'm very uninformed on these kind of matters.

[Gareth]

Torture maybe , Cletus .....but it's occured to me that a judicial execution (ie one after a trial ! ) would leave us in breach of the Human Rights legislation . I'm not at all sure if our Gov't could re-introduce the death penalty without repealing the Euro HR laws - and maybe without leaving the EU altogether .

335646[/snapback]

In order to have the death penalty, we would have to leave the EU & also the European Convention on Human Rights - international bodies don't look kindly on governments intentionally killing people...

In other news, according to CNN, the UK blocked the arrest by the USA of a guy with links to the London bomb plotters, a month before the attacks happened, on the grounds that he was a UK citizen.

[Modi]

Torture maybe , Cletus .....but it's occured to me that a judicial execution (ie one after a trial ! ) would leave us in breach of the Human Rights legislation . I'm not at all sure if our Gov't could re-introduce the death penalty without repealing the Euro HR laws - and maybe without leaving the EU altogether .

  Still , it's nice to know that executions without trial on the streets are perfectly acceptable to many people - even , I'd guess , to those who are against the death penalty !!

  One more thing ; what are the chances of the "British" bombers being tried for treason ? Or is that a politically incorrect charge these days ?

335646[/snapback]

Actually, the HRA doesn't exclude the possibility of execution:

No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

I guess we just don't have any laws that carry the death penalty anymore since High Treason and Piracy execution sentences were repealed. (Incidentally, I don't have a problem with the death penalty)

[Gareth]

Actually, the HRA doesn't exclude the possibility of execution:

No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

I guess we just don't have any laws that carry the death penalty anymore since High Treason and Piracy execution sentences were repealed.    (Incidentally, I don't have a problem with the death penalty)

335657[/snapback]

That isn't actually what that section means.

"Execution" means the carrying out of a criminal sentence. The death penalty is actually abolished by Schedule 1, Part III, Sixth Protocol, Article 1

Abolition of the death penalty

The death penalty shall be abolished. No one shall be condemned to such penalty or executed.

However, Article 2 carries on:

Death penalty in time of war

A State may make provision in its law for the death penalty in respect of acts committed in time of war or of imminent threat of war; such penalty shall be applied only in the instances laid down in the law and in accordance with its provisions. The State shall communicate to the Secretary General of the Council of Europe the relevant provisions of that law.

So there is a possibilty of having the death penalty in certain circumstances, although as of now we don't have it in English law.

The whole of the HRA can be seen here.

[Modi]

.

"Execution" means the carrying out of a criminal sentence.  The death penalty is actually abolished by Schedule 1, Part III, Sixth Protocol, Article 1

Abolition of the death penalty

335659[/snapback]

Yes, execution means carrying out the law. So don't try to make it seem that your mastery of English is greater than others. Chances are it isn't.

However, explain the relevance of the rest of the statement if it doesn't preclude the death sentence...

No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save [viz except when] in the execution [viz carrying out] of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty [vis the death penalty]is provided by law [vis is legislated for].

Deprivation of life is therefore possible if a law carries that sentence.

Edited July 29, 2005 by Modi

[colin]

The promotion of the idea of execution for suicide bombers has a certain futility about it.

Possibly the proponents of the punishment haven't really thought through the idea.

[SouthAussieRover]

I'd support the death penalty for captured would be suicide bombers.

Let's face it,they could hardly complain their human rights were being violated,when they intended to kill themselves in the first place.

Edited July 30, 2005 by SouthAussieRover

[Tris]

Well hasn't this been a happy, fast moving topic?

Those idiots from the Met police, with their mates from SO19, MI5, TazerTazer inc. and BagABomber have - thanks to God and hard work - made our lives here in London a whole lot safer today.

Read further up the thread about the supposed incompetence of London's police and the intelligence services. How they've made a hash of the job. How their tactics are supposedly racist and OTT.

How lucky then, that they managed to arrest the three most wanted men in Europe today, and didn't even fooouk the addresses up. Or killl the targets. Or blow up the neighbours. Or chase anyone down a subway and land 8 rounds in their head.

I'm not getting involved in any argument on here. I'm commenting as a Londoner living a mile from where @#/?3 was bagged today.

There are clearly people who have posted on this thread who will be gutted that the police have got this operation so correct. Three murderers into custody in one afternoon - and not a single bullet fired - must be a mistake (or perhaps three mistakes).

What happened to de Menezes in Stockwell last week is a tragedy. It's almost more tragic that the status of his visa is now an issue.

Someone who had a job to do shot him several times in the head ... in a city where we're not used to guns ... and in an atmosphere which I for one have never experienced in this country.

It wasn't to do with machoism or incompetence, and to even suggest that is pathetic.

One man was doing his job, the other man was perhaps on his way do do his job. Perhaps legally, or perhaps with a dodgy stamp in the passport. His family now say he didn't jump the ticket barrier. I was watching Sky News as the whole thing unfolded - every EYEWITNESS last Friday told the cameras he jumped the barrier.

Those pesky eyewitnesses. Must have still been high on the 2012 thing, they were all filming adverts in their heads for the hurdles final.

Yesterday afternoon I used 10 stations on the tube network - all in zones 1 or 2. I have never seen a Police presence like it. I understand that there was a similar high visibility presence all over the country.

But read the rubbish posted earlier on this thread, and the Police are crap, incompetent, in the wrong places at the wrong times, doing the wrong things, arresting the wrong people, and killing innocents because they enjoy it.

Get real folks.

Edited July 30, 2005 by Tris

[MCMC1875]

Firstly, treason is the only crime in the UK which still carries the death penalty as I understand it.

Secondly, before we all get 'gung ho' and race for the kangaroo court, those arrested may only have been 'mules'. More dangerous in my mind are those behind the plots who recruited the bombers and could find another four clowns in the UK. Anyway, at least the residents of London should sleep a little more easily tonight.

Edited July 30, 2005 by MCMC1875

[stuwilky]

Firstly, treason is the only crime in the UK which still carries the death penalty as I understand it.

335673[/snapback]

Fortunately it no longer carries the death penalty. There is no offence which, in this country, carries the death sentance.

[AlanK]

Hey Tris, thats a top post. Pretty much sums it all up really.

[blue phil]

Someone who had a job to do shot him several times in the head ... in a city where we're not used to guns ... and in an atmosphere which I for one have never experienced in this country.

It wasn't to do with machoism or incompetence, and to even suggest that is pathetic.

335672[/snapback]

No it isn't pathetic . Despite the laudable successes of the police and intelligence over the last couple of days their track record previous to that in failing to pick up any signals of the bombings was non existent .

With respect to this Brazilian , there are many unanswered questions . He obviously wasn't wearing a bulky jacket despite police claims , he wasn't carrying a rucksack , and if he was considered an imminent threat why the hell was he allowed to board a bus before arriving near the tube ?

I'm still of the opinion we have a rogue copper who at the very least should not carry arms again . I don't believe he personally should be prosecuted but if the police don't give full details on everything that went on and their grave mistakes in the matter , then the consequences for the future could be very serious . Can you imagine what would happen if an innocent Muslim bloke , or woman , were to be gunned down ? We'd have riots on our hands ...

[American]

I never thought I'd see Phil defending undocumented immigrants!!

[broadsword]

I'm still of the opinion we have a rogue copper who at the very least should not carry arms again .

335696[/snapback]

Well, that might well happen. The CCTV tapes are in the hands of the IPP(?) now, so at least they will know for a *fact* whether or not he leaped over the barrier. I think I shall withold any further opinion on this until there's some judgement passed on it.

Went from Greenford to Waterloo yesterday. Waterloo, as you might well imagine was *crawling* with Old Bill. Never seen anything like it. Perhaps we'd see a more visible police presence on our streets permanently if we didn't bury these chaps in pointless paperwork. Ealing Broadway tends to have typically 4 or 5 policemen outside these days. Even Greenford in the morning has a few some days.

I do tend now to look around me on the carriage. Paranoid it might be, but it pays to be vigilant and play "Spot the suicide bomber".

[blue phil]

Removing illegals is one thing , shooting them is another .....Maybe I'm too much of what you Yanks call a libertarian !

[Wolverine]

Fortunately it no longer carries the death penalty.  There is no offence which, in this country, carries the death sentance.

335683[/snapback]

I know when the death penalty was removed in the UK, it did remain for treason and arson in the queens naval yard, which dates back to when our fleet was made of wood.

I would imagine you are right though that these two charges would now not be dealt with by execution.

Incidently, I fear racial riots are a very real threat now. I was walking down a road in Accrington last night with my brother in law, and a car full of local asian youths drove by, one bulky baseball capped fella leant out of the window, and tried to smack me round the head as they drove by.

Totally unprovoked, and if he carried on doing the same all night, it will do nothing to ease the racial tension already evident in the town.

Incidently, he missed and looked a little silly! But how long until he is doing the same with a baseball bat, or worse?

Shame I didn't get the registration number really...

Edited July 30, 2005 by ffberryb77

[Glenn]

I know when the death penalty was removed in the UK, it did remain for treason and arson in the queens naval yard, which dates back to when our fleet was made of wood.

I would imagine you are right though that these two charges would now not be dealt with by execution.

Incidently, I fear racial riots are a very real threat now. I was walking down a road in Accrington last night with my brother in law, and a car full of local asian youths drove by, one bulky baseball capped fella leant out of the window, and tried to smack me round the head as they drove by.

Totally unprovoked, and if he carried on doing the same all night, it will do nothing to ease the racial tension already evident in the town.

Incidently, he missed and looked a little silly! But how long until he is doing the same with a baseball bat, or worse?

Shame I didn't get the registration number really...

335705[/snapback]

Left York races last weekend and spotted a drunk stereotypical "lad" leaning into the open car door of two scared looking asain youths, as we passed he said "don't worry, I was just 'avin' a word 'bout the bom'in's ) and walked off. 6 of one and all that.

There will be no riots any time soon, nobody riots in bad weather ! (and you think I'm joking, look at the stats).

[Flopsy]

Removing illegals is one thing , shooting them is another .....Maybe I'm too much of what you Yanks call a libertarian  !

335701[/snapback]