[Archived] Citeh To Sack Barton?

[thenodrog]

Would you sell your soul to the devil Theno? Sounds like you just don't give fig for the reputation of Blackburn Rovers.

"Hey while we are at it why not see if the Home Office (being a bit pressed for cash) wants to release a few murderers and rapists that have a flair for football as well. Send 'em on licence to Rovers.....everybody knows they are a team of thugs anyway ho ho ho!"

Very juvenile post Fife. Please act your age.

Edited May 7, 2009 by thenodrog

[Fife Rover]

Very juvenile post Fife. Please act your age.

No Theno it's you that needs to to take a long hard look at yourself. There are far more important things in this life than money and always making out how right you are in every post. Standards still matter even if they have gone out of fashion. And to abandon all standards in the pursuit of a temporary convenience is the pits, and I am not prepared to do it. Not for money or anything else. Can you say the same?

Edited May 7, 2009 by Fife Rover

[RovertheHill]

for all our moaning about footballers excesses what this thread proves is that basically a footballer can do virtually anything and still be welcomed by the fans and be paid a fortune. I suspect this would be the case across all clubs too. Which is very, very sad.

[DE.]

It's a perfect representation of how far society and standards in general have fallen.

[philipl]

Sane comment on Barton

The guy would be a monumental waste of money even if he signed for free.

[CrazyIvan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/au...eline-newcastle

[Fife Rover]

Sane comment on Barton

The guy would be a monumental waste of money even if he signed for free.

Yep, that just about sums it up, albeit in a more restained way than I would have chosen, but nevertheless succint and more or less accurate.

[RovertheHill]

for all our moaning about footballers excesses what this thread proves is that basically a footballer can do virtually anything and still be welcomed by the fans and be paid a fortune. I suspect this would be the case across all clubs too. Which is very, very sad.

[broadsword]

for all our moaning about footballers excesses what this thread proves is that basically a footballer can do virtually anything and still be welcomed by the fans and be paid a fortune. I suspect this would be the case across all clubs too. Which is very, very sad.

Very well said mate.

decency is coming a poor second to win at all costs.

[LeChuck]

Well...if we're talking morals, you could argue it's a bad reflection on us that the vast majority are against employing an ex-convict who should be considered to have already been punished for their mistakes...

Edited May 7, 2009 by LeChuck

[47er]

Well...if we're talking morals, you could argue it's a bad reflection on us that the vast majority are against employing an ex-convict who should be considered to have already been punished for their mistakes...

Except he's still making them...........

[Fife Rover]

Well...if we're talking morals, you could argue it's a bad reflection on us that the vast majority are against employing an ex-convict who should be considered to have already been punished for their mistakes...

No LC that is not the case at all. If you take the trouble to read back about 24 hrs on this thread you will see that I was very specific in stating that if Barton had shown any signs whatsoever to the general public that he was genuinely sorry for ANY of the crimes he has committed on or off the field, then that would be a completely different case than where we are at present. Sadly there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that he has shown the slightest remorse for any of his actions, and conversely there is plenty that points to the opposite case.

I re-iterate that IF Barton shows genuine remorse (not just empty words) that he is sorry for his actions and wants to make amends then I would accept him at face value.

[LeChuck]

I was playing Devil's advocate Fife (not that this thread really needed it to spark debate!).

Here's an article from back in October. He does sound genuinely sorry there, although we all know how cheap words are. All he's really done wrong since then is to get sent off and have a shout about Shearer being a bad manager. I guess you could argue that shows his 'role model' bit was a lie though.

[CrazyIvan]

No LC that is not the case at all. If you take the trouble to read back about 24 hrs on this thread you will see that I was very specific in stating that if Barton had shown any signs whatsoever to the general public that he was genuinely sorry for ANY of the crimes he has committed on or off the field, then that would be a completely different case than where we are at present. Sadly there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that he has shown the slightest remorse for any of his actions, and conversely there is plenty that points to the opposite case.

I re-iterate that IF Barton shows genuine remorse (not just empty words) that he is sorry for his actions and wants to make amends then I would accept him at face value.

This is the thing that gets me, I haven't seen anything from Barton about what he has done other than an apology and we are talking AFTER his jail sentence. He hasn't been involved in any fights at his club or in public. A dressing down from Shearer where he had a few words back? While that might not be ideal behaviour at all it isn't a crime and we've all seen a lot worse happen on the sides of pitches. This moralising on how Barton behaves is frankly ludicrous because nobody has seen him do anything wrong SINCE his conviction (I'm talking outside football here) and, as far as I know, nobody actually knows the man personally. His tackle was poor; we've seen many, many tackles like that. They happen every weekend at least once in the top flight and much more in the lower leagues. To castigate a player this much for that tackle is silly.

Best of all, I'm not in favour of us signing Barton. I just don't see the reason for the moralising going on here. As for his actual crimes (not 'crimes on the pitch', which are actually called fouls...), he has paid his debt to society so why should society continue to punish him for them?

[Fife Rover]

I was playing Devil's advocate Fife (not that this thread really needed it to spark debate!).

Here's an article from back in October. He does sound genuinely sorry there, although we all know how cheap words are. All he's really done wrong since then is to get sent off and have a shout about Shearer being a bad manager. I guess you could argue that shows his 'role model' bit was a lie though.

Well thanks for that LC. I was not aware of any of that, if I had been I would not have said there is no evidence of remorse. All I can say now though is that those were certainly the right sounds he was making back then, and as people have pointed out until his latest transgessions this last weekend he appears to have been clean. Maybe there is a case for giving him a little more time, but equally he himself needs to try his utmost to control his anger and impulsive foul play on the pitch. If he could do that and not go over the top as he just did when his manager rebukes him for his bad behaviour, then in time people will get the message that he has indeed reformed, and would then find him perfectly acceptable.

But he himself has to understand that all this takes time; it wont happen in just a few weeks after coming out of prison. IF he really is determined to reform he needs to grit his teeth and keep plugging away at SHOWING he has genuinely reformed on and off the pitch. I know it is hard, but he has to understand that the situation he finds himself in is of his own making. The public in turn has to look at his recent record and keep on updating in their own minds, until eventually most right minded people will accept him as a reformed character.

[DE.]

Barton had an interview a couple of months before he went on to commit the crime for his most recent jail sentence, where he said he was genuinely sorry and had learned from his mistakes... can't remember when it was or who interviewed him (was a fairly famous female presetner, possibly for sky sports?) but at the time I remember thinking "yeah right", and a few months later, here we go again.

[RevidgeBlue]

1) Is he better than what we've got already? - By some distance.

2) If we were to sign him, does he deserve a clean slate based on what he actually does here? - Imo yes.

3) Can we afford his wages? Very doubtful.

4) All things taken into consideration, does he represent too much of a gamble?

Imo yes. Can you imagine if he was our main summer signing on top wages (for us) and got himself sent down again?

[LeChuck]

If we had something in the contract to protect ourselves from such an event, and even less severe cases like FA bans, how would you feel about his signing then Rev?

Genuine question there...I think I've been being sarcastic for so long I've forgotten how to word genuine things properly.

[Silencio]

1) Is he better than what we've got already? - By some distance.

2) If we were to sign him, does he deserve a clean slate based on what he actually does here? - Imo yes.

3) Can we afford his wages? Very doubtful.

4) All things taken into consideration, does he represent too much of a gamble?

Imo yes. Can you imagine if he was our main summer signing on top wages (for us) and got himself sent down again?

That can be negated by inserting clauses into the contract that would cover us in such a scenario...

He ain't a nice guy but he is in the news this week because Shearer needs a scapegoat...

[rovers_rob]

1) Is he better than what we've got already? - By some distance.

2) If we were to sign him, does he deserve a clean slate based on what he actually does here? - Imo yes.

3) Can we afford his wages? Very doubtful.

4) All things taken into consideration, does he represent too much of a gamble?

Imo yes. Can you imagine if he was our main summer signing on top wages (for us) and got himself sent down again?

I agree with all of those points but what if he was on some sort of pay as you play deal ? i.e. if he is that stupid and does get sent down again or if he is sent of we wouldn't pay him a penny.

Whould you take that gamble ?

[CrazyIvan]

I agree with all of those points but what if he was on some sort of pay as you play deal ? i.e. if he is that stupid and does get sent down again or if he is sent of we wouldn't pay him a penny.

Whould you take that gamble ?

I think so if it weren't for the amount of bad press that follows him around. I've said before that this place might well be the best place for him. Still undecided to be honest...

[T4E]

That can be negated by inserting clauses into the contract that would cover us in such a scenario...

No it can't. If he gets sent down on October 1st, we'll then have to struggle through to the next transfer window without our best midfielder.

There's no point in negating the financial implications if we cannot then reinvest the money we save.

[RevidgeBlue]

If we had something in the contract to protect ourselves from such an event, and even less severe cases like FA bans, how would you feel about his signing then Rev?

Genuine question there...I think I've been being sarcastic for so long I've forgotten how to word genuine things properly.

Well yes, I'd think he would be a good signing if there were pretty stringent safeguards in place from our point of view.

Whether we could actually get those safeguards put in and Barton would agree to them as well as a pay cut is another matter entirely. Thoughts that he might be prepared to agree to agree to a "pay as you play deal" for example is completely pie in the sky imo.

If Sam could somehow pull the deal off on terms acceptable to us I'd be more than prepared to back his judgement on it.

I'd far rather we made a risky signing like Barton with massive scope for improvement than a "one last payday" signing with zero scope for improvement like Viduka.

[Ricky]

I'm with you on this one Rev. Don't like him but feel that under the right terms he could be a shrewd signing.

He's the right age and has ability, there's no doubt about that. The only doubts for me are over his temperament.

[Eddie]

He's on 60k a week at Newcastle. How much of a pay cut do you think he would take? Think this one is dead in the water as far as "shrewd signings" go.

I don't want to see someone like that playing for our club.