[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[Paul]

  den said:

............. then within weeks can lose 20000 of those. Even rovers don't do that.

that's cos we don't have 20,000 to lose.............

[den]

  Paul said:

that's cos we don't have 20,000 to lose.............

We did have, a few seasons back.

[cletus]

...then again, it wasn`t that long ago (pre-Jack Walker) when a 9000 crowd was seen as a 'decent' turnout.

[daveoftherovers]

Correct that man! £9k was seen as a decent turnout once upon a time, I'd say that we now say that level is at 19-20k, however, how bad is the away support at our place now?

Just see how many clampitts turn up to watch w*nky wanderers, have they booked last years taxi do you think?

Oh, I'm not going their either this year, £39 is a scam to go there and then be served by the one person in the one "Refreshment" stand, to stand in silence whilst trying to hear if their home fans exist whilst damaging my neck watching them hoof the long ball upto fat bloke, sulker & cheat up front.

(Rant over sorry!)

[adopted scouser]

  daveoftherovers said:

watching them hoof the long ball upto fat bloke, sulker & cheat up front.

I'm not alone in my opinion of Bolton then.

[philipl]

An interesting piece on how football has failed to attract a large part of 8% of the British population.

[SouthAussieRover]

Re the excellent initiative of the club re the pricing for the Bolton game.

It's been a long standing view of mine, ableit based on the views of a few I've met notably at the FF, that some ST holders think they ought to be treated better than the casual walk on fan.

Their oft repeated argument seems to centre on the basis that paying for a season ticket makes them in some way a more committed and loyal fan.Maybe it did a couple of decades ago but not anymore.Alternative revune namely Sky payments should more than compensate for the initial season beginning income expected from ST sales.

I think of a season ticket of guranteeing you a better chance of seeing prime performances or getting preferential treatment when it comes to special events eg Cup Finals.Think of it a bit like buying a season ticket for the theatre or being a member of Qantas/BA travellers lounges.Or another example,cheap texts on a prepaid mobile plan viz a viz cheaper calls on a monthly plan. In no way should a walk on casual be derided for taking up the offer of a "special priced" seat at a cheaper price.Should the good times ever return they can be expected to take a back seat in preference to ST holders.However the clubs initiative in trying to fill the ground would hopefull encourage others to take up a ST.

However I don't think being a ST holder makes you anymore special than a casual fan.It's not as if being a ST holder makes you akin to being a member of say LCCC or a private club.To me it suggests you either have the benefit of the wherewithall to be able to afford a ST or that you are sensible enough to realise the overall benefits it potentially offers.

[Al]

Season ticket holders ARE special. They make a comittment before the season has started. Many of them cannot afford to pay all at once so they opt for the direct debit system.

Their money helps pay for transfer fees in the close season.

They have a right to be treated better than the 'walk on' supporter who can choose to stay away if things are not going well.

The despicable 'pub' supporter is not a supporter at all and should not be thought of as such.

I do however excuse supporters who live too far away to attend all the matches from the above.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Al

[gumboots]

I quite agree that season ticket holders do need to be carefully handled by clubs because their income is guaranteed, but I have no problems with the current offer for walk ons. I bought tickets for 4 season ticket holders for the European games (2 adults and 2 young adults) and a junior season ticket holder and an ordinary adult for the Chelsea game last week and the total came to £63. This shows excellent committment by the club to its season ticket holders as well and, provided it does not become cheaper to only buy individual match day tickets, then I don't think any season ticket holder can realistically complain if they claim to love the club.

The article on ethnic minority support backs up much of what I have said before. You don't go to football matches if nobody takes you because going to a football ground is a daunting experience. Most of the young Asian heritage kids in Blackburn have never been taken. Their families are often nominally supporters of whoever was the glamour club when dad, grandad, or, in some cases great-grandad arrived in this country and the kids don't go against that other than to suppport today's in-club as all young kids are apt to do (my husband was a Leeds "supporter" and still has a sneaking respect for Aresenal - his dad's team - although he is a true Rovers fan of many years standing now) To win over the Asian heritage kids will take time and continued success and, and here's where we have the real problem, improved media coverage and respect.

[FourLaneBlue]

There has been somewhat of a change in the makeup of the average crowd at Rovers in the past few decades. There are more women attending than before, which is good, but it does seem that less younger fans go than before. Football has traditionally attracted young males yet these seem to be being priced out or put off from going.

In this article which is more about how racism at football put many ethnic minority fans off attending, it suggests that "The Premier League survey also found that the average age of fans was 43 and only 9% were under 24." Despite loudly proclaiming how the Premiership is for families, figures don't really back that claim. In reality, many families are either finding it too expensive or are getting bored of it, thus can't be bothered anymore.

While I agree with Al that season ticket holders are special and should be treated so, I think kids should be treated as a special case too. Paul has argued in the past that the club may not make so much from them as they move away when they reach a certain age. To which I say...who cares if they go to university? It shouldn't be about making money in the short term, it's about increasing the Rovers following and making them fans for life, they may come back, they may not. Maybe they'll just buy kits every few years; a not unsubstantial sum over a lifetime.

The club is putting out some great offers but I don't see how they can last. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd etc can still charge big bucks. They need to be rewarded by the fans coming back again and again. Making it cheap to bring their kids will help and season ticket holders are unlikely to begrudge kids getting in cheap. There is a big difference between that and seeing stayaways paying so little.

So that is my way forward...make it cheaper for families and don't try to view kids as cash cows. Look at it as a long-term investment which if it doesn't come off means nothing lost as how much would they have made from empty seats anyway? Not that Rovers haven't thought of all that already of course!

Edited October 18, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Al]

I don't mind cheaper tickets to fill the ground as long as the season ticket holders get some reward for their loyalty. Three cup matches for £32 will do for me. Thank you Rovers. There is a but though. Why the hell do I have to pay £2 for using my debit card?

We all know that there is a charge to the seller for a credit card but not so for a debit card. It just takes the icing off the offer a bit.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Al

[philipl]

Re the comment that the special offers cannot afford to last, next summer the TV pot jumps by 50%+ and if John Williams does his stuff on the Premier League, there will be a shift of distribution towards the smaller clubs as well.

Rovers probably can and WILL extend these cheaper ticket offers IF the Blackburn public responds.

The Bolton game is a critical test.

If there is a significvant upturn of home support, everyone who says price is a key issue will be proved right. If not, then why should Rovers cut the prices?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  FourLaneBlue said:

There has been somewhat of a change in the makeup of the average crowd at Rovers in the past few decades. There are more women attending than before, which is good, but it does seem that less younger fans go than before. Football has traditionally attracted young males yet these seem to be being priced out or put off from going.

In this article which is more about how racism at football put many ethnic minority fans off attending, it suggests that "The Premier League survey also found that the average age of fans was 43 and only 9% were under 24." Despite loudly proclaiming how the Premiership is for families, figures don't really back that claim. In reality, many families are either finding it too expensive or are getting bored of it, thus can't be bothered anymore.

While I agree with Al that season ticket holders are special and should be treated so, I think kids should be treated as a special case too. Paul has argued in the past that the club may not make so much from them as they move away when they reach a certain age. To which I say...who cares if they go to university? It shouldn't be about making money in the short term, it's about increasing the Rovers following and making them fans for life, they may come back, they may not. Maybe they'll just buy kits every few years; a not unsubstantial sum over a lifetime.

The club is putting out some great offers but I don't see how they can last. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd etc can still charge big bucks. They need to be rewarded by the fans coming back again and again. Making it cheap to bring their kids will help and season ticket holders are unlikely to begrudge kids getting in cheap. There is a big difference between that and seeing stayaways paying so little.

So that is my way forward...make it cheaper for families and don't try to view kids as cash cows. Look at it as a long-term investment which if it doesn't come off means nothing lost as how much would they have made from empty seats anyway? Not that Rovers haven't thought of all that already of course!

I think Rovers already do an excellent job in pricing for youngsters. But I think I would go a step further than they already have.

1. Free Season ticket for under 12's, with each full season ticket (Rovers previously did this for under 8's)

2. Occasional one off ticket deals - child comes free with each full ticket purchased.

3. Junior prices - £5 - irrespective of opposition.

Also - rather than reducing match day tickets to £15 - why not buy 1 get one free ?

Also if we attempted to extend the membership idea - and only made the offers available to signed up Rovers members - would this mean we could get around Premiership rules and not necessarily have to have the same pricing structure for away fans ?

Edited October 19, 2006 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[FourLaneBlue]

No mention anywhere again about £15 tickets for the Bolton game in today's Lancashire Telegraph. Talk about leaving it until late, this should have been jumped on a week ago so as to lead to steady ticket sales.

The local paper has let the local club down on this. Rovers deserve better from a paper that lives on news from the club.

[cletus]

Howzabout an organised boycott of the LET to show our displeasure?

...afterall, most people only get it to read up on the local footy.

[only2garners]

Radio Lancashire have mentioned the cheap tickets on Sunday twice in the last few minutes, in between a Dingles fan complaining about not being to afford to watch them!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If this current team cant fill Ewood 'nowt will........COME ON DOWN!!!

[FourLaneBlue]

  cletus said:

Howzabout an organised boycott of the LET to show our displeasure?

...afterall, most people only get it to read up on the local footy.

You organise it Cletus!

Seriously though, they need to pull out the stops for the next few days and get behind such a great offer.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Bolton have now sold all 5,500 tickets and Rovers have put the other top half of the Darwen end for sale on the day...looks like a 7,000 following behind them.

[prestonwhite]

Ticket update, the club have sold all their allocation of 5,600 tickets, not yet sure if we’ll be given anymore.

Now some of you seem to be missing the point on this one completely, I’m not attempting to gloat about the number of tickets we’ve sold, that’s down to the fact it’s £15/£5 to get in. My point is that this is the best way possible of showing the board at BWFC that if you lower the cost the crowds will go up, a fact that a very significant number of BWFC supporters think the same about!

What I am saying is if Blackburn fans DONT respond in the same way how can you ever legitimately complain to the club again that the price of getting in is the reason for you not going???

Yes there are always people who can’t go for various reasons, however reading some of the comments on here I already get the feeling that there are a lot of people getting their excuses in early for why they didn’t bother on Sunday! Don’t get me wrong we have exactly the same at Bolton, just don’t use the price as an excuse if the bottom line is you can’t be arsed.

As for Bolton’s team, you men remind me of all the JCLs at the Reebok!

‘We’re a shocking team to watch’, hi you’re right, you know we were so much more entertaining to watch when we kept getting relegated from the prem, losing games 4-2 and 6-0 at home to Man Utd!

Bottom line is footy’s about results and anyone who says anything else is talking c**p!!

We all like to watch a great entertaining game, but the bottom line at any club is if you lose every week no matter how well you’re playing you’re crowds will progressively go down.

Don’t tell me that any of your supporters over in Poland (and most of you on here) wont settle now for a ‘boring’ 1-0 win tonight???

The standard of footy is just another one of those ‘standard excuses’ that people trot for not going when again the reason is they just can’t be bothered!

Not going got get into the debate about Diouf, etc. other than to say I’ve not doubt Mr Savage will be up to his old tricks on Sunday!!!

[des]

just to put this into context, looking at this season I was hoping to go to a number of games, however my firm has just given us our pay rise of 1.95% and thats take it or leave.

Has this is some what lower them we all throught it would be, cuts backs will have to be made and therefore on my list rovers has gone dowm a bit further.

Now I do not want people to feel sorryfor me/us, its ok we will cope, but its just that fans should know that even at lower prices, its sometimes hard to find the money.

So before people saying giving people stick for not going, just think about your comments first and before anyelse states that I should get a better education and earn more I do have a BA hon 2.1.

so roll on sunday and lets win

[Ozz]

On ringing the ticket office this afternoon for clarification on Rotterdam I was on hold and the automatic voice that tells you where you are in the queue said "Forteenth"-14th in the queue ! Suspect they might want Bolton tickets eh?

[FourLaneBlue]

The Lancashire Telegraph has FINALLY mentioned the price cuts for Sunday on the back page, albeit not the main story as obviously the game last night takes precedence. There is also an advert in tonight from Rovers showing the club really are pulling out all the stops.

However, they really need to build on this tomorrow and make it, at least, the main back page story for one day at least surely.

No too much to ask is it?!?

Come on LT, you can do it!

Edited October 20, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm taking my two daughters along, who don't usually go, if everyone does that we'll have 36,000 home fans trying to get tickets.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  RevidgeBlue said:

I'm taking my two daughters along, who don't usually go, if everyone does that we'll have 36,000 home fans trying to get tickets.

But we can't all take your daughters, fights are bound to break out :-)

Seriously I am taking my daughter - lets hope the performance and atmosphere make them want to go again this season.