[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[RevidgeBlue]

Isnt that what a season ticket does.

387224[/snapback]

Errr....... obviously not if Paul's figure of the average take being 13 quid per seat is correct. And obviously there's no reason to believe it isn't.

Assuming the figure is right i.e. 247 quid per season, then either season ticket holders are paying at least full whack if not more, or there are an enormous number of juniors/ OAP's bringing the average take figure down.

I was under the impression that the cheapest adult ST was about 280 quid (Average c15 per game.And that there were only a limited number of those)

I always thought most adult ST's weighed in about the 400 mark (average c21 per game) Mine in JW upper costs over 500. (average c26 per game)

Junior ST's are 5 quid per game. So on tha basis of the 13 quid average there's as many of them sold as standard adult ST's at 21 per game? That can't be right surely?

[bob fleming]

The fact we've just beaten Arsenal to go 5th is surely irrelevant.

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No it's not irrelevant is it? There might be a slight "buzz" about BRFC in the town at the moment - highest (meaningful) position for 8 years. Recently beaten Manchester United and Arsenal at home. More people may actually want to come and watch us, I know it's a crazy concept

So what happens? Turn them away. "Hey guess what's just happened, just had a bloke on the phone wanting to buy a "Season Ticket" for the last six games! Wanted to spend money with us! Don't worry I got rid of him." "Phew that was close!"

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only expense other than a bit of admin is the plastic card. Sliding scales etc should be in place. Why not just sell the "Season Ticket" card at the face value of the six games anyway? It's a present after all.

I just think it's a bit silly really turning people away when the ground is barely two thirds full.

[RevidgeBlue]

No it's not irrelevant is it?

387230[/snapback]

You're right, it obviously helps, I just meant from the point of view of someone having already thought of this obvious possibility arising and putting the appropriate sliding scale system in force.

[dave birch]

Isnt that what a season ticket does.

Although that discount becomes erroded if.

Why bother buying a season ticket in advance for 19 games, when in July you dont know how good a season its going to be. Why not wait until February. If the team are doing well, then buy a bundle for the remaining games.

387224[/snapback]

Alan75, I'm not talking about discounting tickets, I'm talking about buying tickets for a "bundle" of matches. What I'm saying is, if people want to gaurantee tickets for matches where tickets will be in short supply, buy another ticket for a low category game, and you're in. That way the Rovers have sold two tickets as opposed to one

[jim mk2]

Your attitudes are quite ridiculous really.

Just because Rovers have gone 5th on the back of a couple of wins, you expect them to suddenly put together a package which suits the immediate situation because - !

But to slag off the Rovers board because you picked up the phone this morning and some ticket office oik couldn't immediately sell you a 6 game season ticket (because no such thing exists) is ridiculous.

387197[/snapback]

It's your continuing defence of the club on any issue that is ridiculous.

Good managements react to changing situations quickly.

The light should have gone on in Williams' overpaid brain on Saturday night that because of Rovers' improved form there might, just might, be a chance to boost attendances and rake in extra cash between now and the end of the season.

And those new attendees might even come back next season. Ding ! Geddit ?

The ticket office should have opened for business on Monday morning with a package in place. As it is, it only confirmed its longstanding reputation for lack of enterprise and being extremely difficult to deal with.

[Paul]

Match bundling

Pairing high demand and low demand games

Sliding scale STs

I could give you the club's position on each of those right now as BRISA has asked the questions. The only reason I'm not prepared to post the answers here is because BRISA are very keen to put all the detail we have gained out to its members in a Newsletter. This should happen over the weekend - no pressure there for the Newsletter Editor!! We want to tell the members first because we feel that is the right approach.

Consider one thing though. 12-13000 people signed up for STs in July. I can't be bothered to look back over the whole season but consider the remaining games. Both Liverpool and Wigan have been re-scheduled. The reverse of the arguements being put forward here is ST holders who cannot attend these re-arranged fixtures should be given a refund.

I'm not an apologist for the club but I've asked the questions, received the answers and feel what BRISA has been told is reasonable. I've also sat across the table from JW and TF and told them I feel Rovers don't sell tickets but fans buy them. So we aren't pulling our punches.

The club needs to balance promotion, affordability and value. Afforability is pretty good, the value of an ST has been disastrously eroded over recent years, by Sky not Rovers, and suggesting selling an ST for 6 games would only contribute to that erosion. The club management have to consider both the long and short-term implications of ticketing policy - you don't do that on a Sunday morning based on a 1-0 victory over Arsenal.

[thenodrog]

Your attitudes are quite ridiculous really.

Just because Rovers have gone 5th on the back of a couple of wins, you expect them to suddenly put together a package which suits the immediate situation because - presumably - people are too lazy to contemplate buying on a match by match basis for the remaining 6 home games (and that is therefore an excuse for not going at all).

I bet nobody was making this rather strange demand after the crap defeat at The Hawthorns a couple of weeks ago.  Birthday present or not, it's a pretty big ask.

But to slag off the Rovers board because you picked up the phone this morning and some ticket office oik couldn't immediately sell you a 6 game season ticket (because no such thing exists) is ridiculous.

387197[/snapback]

1. Dont bother about the why's and wherefore's for a minute Tris. All I'm saying

is that I'll soon have collected a lump of money that will be spent somewhere on a birthday prezzy but not it appears at 'cash strapped' BRFC.

Another question do you think I am alone or would plenty of people / businesses be looking for a similar package now that some exitement has been injected into the end of season situation? It's only natural ffs. A wet summer attracts lots of late bookings but do holiday companies ignore the chance of a quick extra buck?

Do they hell! Their fixed costs like those of BRFC remain the same, variable costs are negligible so its nearly all extra bunce isn't it? It should be catered for.

2. At the end of a season there should be offers to stop the normal dwindling away of crowds anyway. You ask me why after going 5th I should expect them yo maximise the situation? Well of course I do........Question for you......if BRFC lose their next 3 home games how many match tickets will be lost for the last 3 matches? Bloody loads! At least this way they will have banked something! Strike whilst the iron is hot is true in this situation.

3. Also Tris..... I know it's bloody inconvenient for BRFC but its a fact that not everybody has a birthday in December isn't it? It's an option for a prezzy that was mentioned but is apparently impossible to supply by the club.

4. Crikey given our position with 30% of our stadium empty and with rivals within 10 miles on 3 sides I should be bidding the final 6 tickets down! Let me give you an example.........When we played at Preston away in the League cup a few years ago (after tonking em at home) I enquired about a private box for 10 with HT sarnies, it should have been a lot more but when I offered 150 quid all in they nearly snatched my hand off! The rules of the SOGA apply everywhere. Maybe Uncle Jacks legacy has dulled our commercial appetite.

5. What else would Tom Finn be doing this week to earn his corn?

Edited February 28, 2006 by thenodrog

[thenodrog]

Plenty of good ideas kicking about on here, all of which BRISA has already discussed with the club. We are expecting to publish the detail next Monday.

So why you dissing mine then?

As for the club not being able to suddenly magic ticket packages out of the air? Well consider this, if we'd been tonked 4-0 by Arsenal we would be 9th - cash still burning a hole in your pocket at that point theno?

See my reply to Tris Paul.  BRFC's fixed costs would remain the same, income would go down, at least this way they have banked the money.

But that wouldn't matter beacuse I'm sure Lancashire United would offer such packages.

Tee Hee gang........giggle giggle After years of trying I've managed for once to put drog in his place!  Are you proud of me guys?  simper simper......

Well done!  But have you guys at BRISA ever heard about fiddling whilst Rome burns Paul?  What about Canute? What about the boy with the dam?  What about flogging the daed horse?  Credit to all for trying but without the demise of some of our neighbours the inevitability of the situation remains. 

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[den]

The old gate debate is an excellent debate. Hopefully, it will remain an open debate without people taking entrenched positions simply because of personalities.

[Paul]

You seriously expect Rovers to come up with an end of season ticketing strategy between 5.00pm Saturday and 9.00am Monday?

Do you really think the commercial people are not busy on the phones trying to sell pacakges to local business?

What of all those who have already purchased tickets for Villa?

What of the implications for the away ticket prices for Villa and Boro?

If you care so much about the frigging football club you'll buy the tickets and give them to this person. It might inconvenience you a bit but if you're as concerned as you previously state that should be a minor consideration. Afterall you only have to log on to the website and order them and guess what there's no booking fee for online sales. Why? Because the club are trying to encourage online ticketing!!!!!!!!!!!!

When do you ever have anything positive to say about any subject? We're 5th and all people can do is moan. There must be a fair few people working at Ewood who wonder if there is any point in making an effort.

[AggyBlue]

When do you ever have anything positive to say about any subject?

387257[/snapback]

The club are averaging 18K home support, WTF can you say that's positive?

[roversWASmylife]

At the end of the day, we can go on about this all day.

But until we start playing well, which we are now finally, on a more consistant basis then we won't get the other fans back.

People will pay decent money for good quality, whether it's a microwave or watching Blackburn Rovers.

[roversmum]

The club are averaging 18K home support, WTF can you say that's positive?

387268[/snapback]

It's a lot better than 16,000...................

[jim mk2]

You seriously expect Rovers to come up with an end of season ticketing strategy between 5.00pm Saturday and 9.00am Monday?

an effort.

387257[/snapback]

Why not ?

The world does not stop at the weekend. For many of us, Saturdays and Sundays are normal working days.

A few telephone calls between a small number of key people is all it would have taken.

[stuwilky]

Do you go to Sainsburys / Tesco online and do the weekly shop, and then find an option to duplicate it for the next six weeks without having to lift another finger??!

387197[/snapback]

Pretty much, yes.

[Eddie]

The club are averaging 18K home support, WTF can you say that's positive?

387268[/snapback]

That's a reflection on the public and not on the work going on at the club.

[Paul]

Errr....... obviously not if Paul's figure of the average take being 13 quid per seat is correct. And obviously there's no reason to believe it isn't.

Assuming the figure is right i.e. 247 quid per season, then either season ticket holders are paying at least full whack if not more, or there are an enormous number of juniors/ OAP's bringing the average take figure down.

387229[/snapback]

The figure is certainly correct, or at least it came straight from John Williams. I'm not in the frame of mind to do all the calculations but must stress this is revenue per seat, per game. Not just the ST holders. I have presumed this average is based on the total income from:

ST holders of all types

Kids for a quid

Other promotions

Boxes - not sure on that one

I think the £13 figure shows the real difficulty/danger with price lead promotions. Every child allowed into the ground for £1 has a dramatic effect on the average income, and no the spend at the bar/burger concession does not compensate.

The next point is a personal opinion and has no basis on anything I've been told. I guess ST holders are "paying full whack," if full whack is defined as what the club feels is the affordable price and best value for the average ST holder. The match day ticket is then priced accordingly higher. Many businesses set prices on the basis of the income required from regular customers, the infrequenbt customer then pays a premium. Discounted prices are usually the real price of the product.

I'd stake my house on Rovers making a very healthy profit if our average crowd was entirely made up of ST holders.

[krislu]

I'm planning on coming over for the Liverpool game as I can get very cheap plane tickets to Manchester (£60). Just wondering if anyone would care to answer some questions:

1. Is it only at the Blackburn End Lower there is a decent atmosphere and loads of people? (do not want to be seated somewhere with noone around me)

2. If so, how do I ensure that I do NOT get a ticket two feet from the drummers? (Do not want to get a serious hearing problem just yet)

3. Where do home fans meet up before kick off? And after (if we win)?

4. Are supporters allowed to bring digital video cameras into the stadium?

5. Any idea what a cat A+ game would cost at the Blackburn End?

For the record I'm not some sorry geek who is coming over all by himself with his video camera..

[mhead]

Just passed the Ground...a very quiet Tuesday. No one in the Shop and no one queueing. What's the next match then....and the sign says Home Sunderland and Home Arsenal.

Now if anyone REALLY cared and if there was true teamwork at Ewood Park(rather than Brockhall) what should have happened monday morning?

- Barry you do this

- jim get on to them

- Bill get the sign changed and get more signs for when the Women's match is on(and when the BwD signs come down)

- anyone got ideas as to how to push sales...alright Jill do flyers in Blackburn Town Centre for the 'kids for a pound' scheme.

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE THEY DID ANY OF THIS OR THE EQUIVALENT?

And that is what BRISA have to gently get across. They don't really really care and they do not act smart. I have been a Senior Manager since 1985 and a rovers Season Ticket holder since 1972 and we have always bought our Tickets in spite of the Rovers management...not as a result of their pro-active Marketing.

Arse needs to be kicked but gently at first.

[Paul]

krislu

1. Yes

2. Dont' buy a ticket on Row 1, around seat 50 or so. Most of the singing seems to start from the middle, right of the BBE.

3. Various pubs, others will comment

4. The ground regulations say you can't, but hey...........

5. Liverpool in the BBE will be £32

[jim mk2]

Just passed the Ground...a very quiet Tuesday. No one in the Shop and no one queueing. What's the next match then....and the sign says Home Sunderland and Home Arsenal.

.

387335[/snapback]

If that is correct then the club is making itself look foolish.

It's little "details" like that which people notice and is usually indicative of poor management.

[waggy]

I'm planning on coming over for the Liverpool game as I can get very cheap plane tickets to Manchester (£60). Just wondering if anyone would care to answer some questions:

krislu can fly from norway for £60 but his match ticket cost £32,does not add up,and thats were the problem lies

[krislu]

krislu

1. Yes

2. Dont' buy a ticket on Row 1, around seat 50 or so. Most of the singing seems to start from the middle, right of the BBE.

3. Various pubs, others will comment

4. The ground regulations say you can't, but hey...........

5. Liverpool in the BBE will be £32

387341[/snapback]

thanks Paul

[greggyk]

yes but, a return train to/from London from/to Blackburn costs over £50!!

There holds another problem. The cost of actually getting to Ewood!! And im sure places closer to Blackburn still cost way more than the actuall match tickets do.

Edited February 28, 2006 by greggyk

[Jan]

I'm planning on coming over for the Liverpool game as I can get very cheap plane tickets to Manchester (£60). Just wondering if anyone would care to answer some questions:

krislu can fly from norway for £60 but his match ticket cost £32,does not add up,and thats were the problem lies

387345[/snapback]

And I'll wager that the airline doesn't pay even its best pilots as well as we pay our worst players. It's economics. You can whine all you like, but running a professional football club costs money. As has been said, we already get a ridiculously low average price per ticket (£13) so reducing prices isn't the answer. Also remember that the percentage of our income that comes from ticket sales is much lower than that from other sources. We get on Sky if we're either "very good", playing someone "very good" or very bad. Bumbling along doesn't get their interest. 5th qualifies as very good, by the way!!!