[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[waggy]

i reckon if we did a poll off the age groups this would be the lowest,just look around the ground/pubs etc.

[den]

An article that might bring a touch of reality to rovers fans.

[LeChuck]

"The last few years have seen a change in mood in Blackburn, Mr Souness' aiming low philosophy became a major turn off"

That sadly seems to be the most lasting effect from Souness' reign. The only reason he ever said that was to protect himself incase of failure. Complete and utter selfish behaviour which continues to cost the club money.

[AggyBlue]

An article that might bring a touch of reality to rovers fans.

397098[/snapback]

If that's the Pete Bamford I think it is, I remember he was once a regular seasider.

So has our support bottomed out at 18000 home fans or is this the new peak?

We really struggle to draw in many more than that.

[Tris]

"The last few years have seen a change in mood in Blackburn, Mr Souness' aiming low philosophy became a major turn off"

That sadly seems to be the most lasting effect from Souness' reign.  The only reason he ever said that was to protect himself incase of failure.  Complete and utter selfish behaviour which continues to cost the club money.

397102[/snapback]

Really???

I seem to remember a trip to Cardiff whilst Souness was manager, and there were about 34,999 other Rovers there dressed in Blue and White and many were waving big flags.

They all seemed majorly turned on.

The fact that crowds at Ewood declined on the back of that success, and following the subsequent Euro qualification through the league, indicates that it wasn't Souness' reign which caused the problem, but external trends and alternative spending options.

The 15,000 Rovers fans who only do cup finals will be able to answer this better than me, but does anyone really think that the average crowd will go up next sesaon, despite the great efforts being made by the players, current management, and board???

If ST sales drop yet again, will LeChuck and his ilk blame Mark Hughes, or the Blackburn public, or socio-economic trends -- or will it STILL be Graeme Souness' fault?!

Edited April 6, 2006 by Tris

[thenodrog]

"The sad loss of Rovers benefactor brought reality crashing down on the heads of Blackburn's board and fans alike. How to compete or even survive when cast adrift from the Premierships cash cow would mean a radical rethink. Promotion under Mr Souness lifted the gates back above the psychological 20,000 barrier with success in the league cup and a top six finish adding to the gates and feel good factor as well. The last few years have seen a change in mood in Blackburn, Mr Souness' aiming low philosophy became a major turn off, flirtations with the wrong end of the table and all too infrequent home wins made for a gloomy Ewood park. The sales of local favourite David Dunn and the mercurial Damien Duff added to the feeling that the good days had long gone even though the cash influx enabled the club to strengthen. "

After all that man did the spineless whingeing stay aways may as well line up and spit on JW's grave and his memory.

[Macky]

and that's why we have so few fans between 16-30 i'm afraid

396895[/snapback]

Rovers v Liverpool £32

Rovers v Brum £30 plus £12 coach

Rovers V Chelski £32

Rovers V City £32

On top of all of these games you have beer, travel and food...

Out of the 6 remaining games, I will more than likely be going to Liverpool, Birmingham, Chelski and Man City. Until starting uni in 2004 I had a season ticket in the b'burn end, but living in Newcastle has meant i'm unable to attend most matches So now that i'm back over Easter I have to spend over £120 on 4 tickets.

So...with a close to maxed out £1200 overdraft, as well as having other expenditure, how can John Williams not realise that there are plenty of people in a similar prediciment to myself?

It does not take much to offer a reduced price or a 3 home game offer to returning fans.

I'm not just being a student and wanting things handed to me on the cheap, but for the likes of myslef who have followed rovers all of my life, why the hell should it cost so much??

[thenodrog]

I'm not just being a student and wanting things handed to me on the cheap, but for the likes of myslef who have followed rovers all of my life, why the hell should it cost so much??

397108[/snapback]

Cos it does mate. It's tough at the top! Try asking the latest music sensation to lower their prices for entry into gigs. Students dont get an easier ride at OT, Highbury etc (never mind students even the disabled are under the cosh at Chelsea) Problem is that the 'big' clubs have people queuing up to get your old seat. You simply have to get used to tghe ways of the world.

btw NOWHERE IS FREE! If you were a Burnley / PNE fan would it be all that much cheaper to watch nameless and faceless players performing poorly? I dont know for sure and I stand to be corrected but I'd wager the difference will be less than you imagine.

[AggyBlue]

If ST sales drop yet again, will LeChuck and his ilk blame Mark Hughes, or the Blackburn public, or socio-economic trends -- or will it STILL be Graeme Souness' fault?!

397105[/snapback]

I know who Jan will blame

[LeChuck]

Really???

I seem to remember a trip to Cardiff whilst Souness was manager, and there were about 34,999 other Rovers there dressed in Blue and White and many were waving big flags.

They all seemed majorly turned on.l

The fact that crowds at Ewood declined on the back of that success, and following the subsequent Euro qualification through the league, indicates that it wasn't Souness' reign which caused the problem, but external trends and alternative spending options.

The 15,000 Rovers fans who only do cup finals will be able to answer this better than me, but does anyone really think that the average crowd will go up next sesaon, despite the great efforts being made by the players, current management, and board???

If ST sales drop yet again, will LeChuck and his ilk blame Mark Hughes, or the Blackburn public, or socio-economic trends -- or will it STILL be Graeme Souness' fault?!

397105[/snapback]

I never said it was purely Souness' fault, as you rightly pointed out there are external factors that come into it. However, I still firmly believe that the ast couple of years in the Souness era are still damaging the club and, as many people have rightly pointed out, it will probably take more than one good season to repair the damage. Unfortunately it seems easier to make the decision to stop attending than it does to start again.

If you're still wondering why I believe Souness has something to do with it then I'll try to explain further. Many of our fans (myself included) are of the age where they've only been a supporter since the Jack Walker days and therefore are used to success at the top level. Speaking personally...whilst I really enjoy reading about the club's history and how we came to be at the level we are now, it all seems as distance as the World Wars and any other piece of history you care to mention. The phrases 'punching above our weight' and 'it's better than the days of...' are thrown around a fair bit by older supporters and, whilst they're blatantly true, they're not really relevant to a sizeable amount of the club's supporters. Again, personally, I just don't get that 'we're lucky to be where we are' feeling. I can fully understand how supporters from the 80s and earlier can have that mentality, but I just don't have it myself, and niether does any Rovers fan I've met that's my age. To use a painfully weak reference (it's the best I can do at this hour), it's basically the same thing as how our generation can't appreciate how lucky we are to have freedom, despite how many older people tell us so, because it hasn't been threatened in our lifetime.*

The sad fact is that those 'survival is our aim' comments from Souness were the first I'd heard from the club that suggested the 'glory days' were over. Even in Division One there was still that belief that, if we got promoted, the money and ambition would be there to get back towards the top. In fact, the final 18-24 months under Souness were, by far, my least enjoyable as a Rovers supporter...Kidd/Hodgson/relegation/Division One included. For that very reason I will continue to believe that period is still having a direct impact on the club. Hughes and the board are doing everything possible to put it right, there's nothing but positive comments coming out of the club now. It will take more than one season though to get rid of the apathetic approach towards attending that the late-Souness era (and other external factors...) created.

I suspect I'm going to get slaughtered for some of that. If I were ten years older reading it I can guarantee it would ###### me off a great deal.

*I've just finished watching a war film in case anyone is worried about the obscure comparisons.

Edited April 7, 2006 by LeChuck

[Paul]

Rovers v Liverpool £32

Rovers v Brum £30 plus £12 coach

Rovers V Chelski £32

Rovers V City £32

397108[/snapback]

Please don't think I'm having a go but:

Liverpool £24

Chelsea £24

City £22

are the cheapest in the ground. The club can do nothing about Birmingham's prices. Sit in the Riverside, don't go to Brum and save around £50. If you want to sit in the most popular area of the ground expect to pay top $.

[Paul]

........ but does anyone really think that the average crowd will go up next sesaon, despite the great efforts being made by the players, current management, and board???

397105[/snapback]

Simple answer, No. The club are making enormous efforts but the best we can hope for is to maintain the average. I know folk who will not be renewing STs because of fixture times and missing too many games. The ST is great value but only if you attend every match. They won't stop attending but will pick and chose.

Two things I know Tris and I disagree on are Souness and Sky. I still feel the negativity from Souness towards the end of his reign has a lasting influence. I was seriously considering packing it in or at least chucking the STs out. Great success under Souey but he simply lost his way.

Sky? Greed from every angle has finished the game. Yes, money has brought a great deal to the PL but over-exposure has ruined the game. Football is now so freely available I find myself bored by media coverage. I rarely watch football on TV, rarely read anything other than the Saturday sport page, I'm bombarded by the radio every 30 minutes with the same meaningless crap. I'm just not interested any longer. I didn't buy a programme, the LET, etc because there is rarely anyhting meaningful in any media outlet. Less would be more. The only worthwhile football experience, for me, is live. A million camera angles can't improve what my eyes can see in front of me.

......and when I do want to watch a game, like Middlesbrough last night and Arsenal on Tuesday. Can I? Of course not because it's on Sky and I refuse to shell out £40+ a month for a service I might use once a month at best. Sky has screwed our game and every fan from every angle and now the clubs are suffering. It will get much, much worse.

This isn't anti-Murdoch, though I'm not keen on him, it's simple economics. The product has become too widely available, is available virtually for free in the local pubs. Who are the mugs? The regulars or the stay-aways?

[gumboots]

But if nobody goes to the ground then there is no product. It's alright saying that people watch it in the pub but how much do you spend there and what will there be to watch in a few years if the club can't raise income ? We can't really afford to go to all the games we go to and we're certainly not well off but as far as possible we try to support the club by attending games. I know the cost of season tickets is high for a lot of people but it's a case of how low the club can afford to make them. You want a high quality product in pleasant surroundings then you have to pay for it.

[waggy]

Please don't think I'm having a go but:

Liverpool £24

Chelsea £24

City £22

are the cheapest in the ground. The club can do nothing about Birmingham's prices. Sit in the Riverside, don't go to Brum and save around £50. If you want to sit in the most popular area of the ground expect to pay top $.

397126[/snapback]

there were no £24 tickets on monday night for the liverpool game

[den]

I know folk who will not be renewing STs because of fixture times and missing too many games. The ST is great value but only if you attend every match. They won't stop attending but will pick and chose.

397127[/snapback]

Sadly, I think the evidence says that those people giving up their season tickets do stop attending.

Every year some people say the decline in ST numbers wont affect the gates, but they always do.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The sheer stupidity of some folk amazes me,just been around a few football message boards and many are slating Boro for only having 24,000 at last nights televised game!!!!

2-0 down from the first leg,televised...how would we have faired?

[trs]

***GAV`S £50 BET UPDATE***

A poor crowd of only 20410 bothered to turn up & watch this dire Lancashire derby.

Seems like most people decided to watch it at home or in the pub (which is what i should`ve done) I spent £30 (ticket, pie & pint) & came away feeling rather short changed. Anyway, here`s how Gav`s £50 bet looks:-

Rovers   average home league gate is now 20261 after 16 games (up 10)

Wigan`s average home league gate is 20904 after 16 games

(Rovers are an average of 643 behind with 3 home games left each)

Rovers   total home league attendances stand at 324172

Wigan`s total home league attendances stand at 334462

(Rovers are 10290 behind)

with only 3 home games left each, for Gav to win his bet Rovers have to get 3430 or more people each game than Wigan.

Rovers   have to play:- Liverpool, Chelsea & Man City

Wigan have :-BIG club, Villa & Pompey

Can it be done??

396286[/snapback]

Wigan's attendance today: 18,669

[cletus]

***GAV`s £50 BET UPDATE***

A 1-1 draw at home against BIG CLUB attracted a gate of 18669 to the JJB stadium. Here`s how it affects Gav`s £50 bet :-

Rovers average home league attendance is 20261 after 16 homes.

Wigan`s average home league attendance is now 20772 after 17 homes (down 132)

(Rovers are now an average of 511 behind)

Rovers total home league attendances stand at 324172

Wigan`s total home league attendances now stand at 353131

(Rovers are 28959 behind having played 1 game less)

Rovers still have to play :- Liverpool, Chelsea & Man City

Wigan have to play :- Aston Villa & Portsmouth

If Rovers can attract a bumper crowd for the visit of Liverpool on easter Sunday, it could go into the last 2 home games level pegging. Can Gav pull off the unpulloffable??!!

[stuwilky]

If we get 27k against Liverpool I reckon we are home and dry. The City game should attract 25k+

Fingers crossed Gav.

[Blue blood]

If a place in europe is riding on the City game I reckon its a certainty that we'll have a large crowd.

[philipl]

Gav ought to win his bet now. In fact if the Blackburn/Liverpool public's imagination is grabbedby Sunday's game, the leeway could be made up in one match- surely 28,000 is a feasible number?

Signs that things are going rightish behind the scenes. But even with the drummer, Rovers gets a huge thumbs down for crowd atmosphere.

[FourLaneBlue]

But even with the drummer, Rovers gets a huge thumbs down for crowd atmosphere.

397712[/snapback]

Even with??? Surely they are hindrance rather than a help to the atmosphere? They have been there too long and are way past their sell-by-date.

However, not to distract from the gates...GAV should win the bet but it may be close. Wigan may still be in the chase for a place in Europe themselves for the Villa game.

Edited April 9, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[BRFC4EVA]

The Wigan crowd against Villa wont be that great cos its a midweek match and that always seems to affect their crowds quite badly, as it does ours. However i do see a problem on the horizen in the fact that pompey might take close to 5k there, as the club is laying on free transport and its their final away game to avoid the drop. Considering that it will also be wigans final home game, and they will want to thank their team for having an amazing 1st yr in prem, it might be enough to win the bet.

Its gonna be very tight, jeez this is almost as fun as the champs league place battle

[SAS]

im putting my beans on the table

we will have a higher average attendence

[Presty On Tour]

im putting my beans on the table

we will have a higher average attendence

397962[/snapback]

i have to agree, liverpool on a bank holiday weekend, chelsea will be a classic and the last game of the season where it could be all on the line we could have a sell out!!!