[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[Paul]

There might be a temporary loss of income from allowing kids in for free, but the long-term benefits would outweigh this in my view.

I share the concern on this but I'm not sure kids for free is the solution. My kids have been attending Rovers virtually for free for 14 years, along with many others I know of. How? Well the ST pricing policy was free STs to the age of eight and then somthing like £40-70 until age 16. It's only as my two elder children passed 16 that I have paid any sort of serious money for them to watch at Ewood Park.

I appreciate people are arguing for free kids on a walk-up basis but I suspect the club know, as I do, that the family friendly pricing policy of the past 10-12 years is now back-firing on the club. With TWO exceptions every child I know who went regularly to Ewood for perhaps 8-10 years has stopped. It's very simple, they no longer live in the area ~ they are travelling, at uni, working etc. I can recall posting on this matter around 3-4 years ago and I regret to say I'm now proved right. One lad I took to every home game for maybe 9 years didn't go while he was home from uni this season. When my eldest started going to Ewood his was the only blue and white shirt in the village. This rapidly changed in the early nineties, sadly we are back to only one family that regularly sets off to Ewood on a Saturday, in days gone by you could almost set your watch by the cars leaving.

Rovers have to be applauded for the family pricing of STs over the last 10-12 years regretably the investment hasn't worked. The club invetsed in those children for nearly a decade and they no longer attend for a variety of reasons, with the benefit of hindsight it was money down the drain. The theory is right, make them Rovers when they are young, but in today's mobile society the chances of these kids remaining ST holders in the long-term is slight.

[den]

I feel the club do need to have a radical look at other areas including pricing policy. If this doesn't work, at least the Rovers have tried. The present situation unfortunately isn't working.

You think the club haven't been looking at pricing policy? They aren't stupid, nor are they out of touch with the fans. They know tickets are too expensive.

FYI, JW sees his role at Ewood as that of a fund raiser. He sees Blackburn Rovers as a club who's sole intention is to get a football team onto the pitch. As good a team as is possible. Rovers are different to some clubs in that sense.

So to do that, he needs to maximise income from all areas, including ticket prices. Now if anyone has a formula that hasn't been tried, then email him, he's always ready to listen.

The truth to me, is that the club have tried just about every method of maximising income that they know. This season they're obviously trying to bring in more money from away fans. One things for sure though, if the way forward was to reduce prices, they would have done that. There's absolutely NO evidence that reducing prices will bring in more revenue.

Of course, they could reduce prices, but what would the fans think of lower league football again?

[The1mattjansen]

I think the point has been reached were we must realise there is very little more we can do to attract people through the gates. As is mentioned over and over again, we are a very small town and one with a high ethnic population who do not seem to share the same interest in football (no racism involved, just stating facts).

Therefore the only way to get more people through the gates would be to charge uneconomically low prices and thus lose more revenue due to the extra expenditure incurred or to try and attract fans of other clubs to come and watch rovers, something that im sure all the real supporters dont want to see.

I still personally dont think ticket revenue is the be all and end all of income streams, and can easily be combatted with the celver budgeting instructed by JW. Its easy to say Spurs are in a greater position to compete because of there larger fanbase, but the fact remains that even if they earn an extra £5m per year from gates, this can easily be cancelled out with there pathetic transfer dealings, or paying somebody like danny murphy/steed malbranque/mido etc etc £30k a week to sit on there bench all season.

We must realise that there is no quick fix solution to attendances, if a solution is available at all, and therefore the job that JW and MH are doing is increasingly important to the club, and we must realise that.

[FourLaneBlue]

I don't think it's the case that lowering prices across the board will bring many more people into Ewood...my previous points have been more along the lines of how putting Cat A+ ticket prices on Sunday games against those teams who don't bring so many fans (such as Chelsea) is backfiring.

Ultimately though the club on the whole is charging as little as it can while also trying to bring in revenue. There are some little things the club can do (as have been put forward) but in reality nothing will really affect the overall situation.

However, I do think it is imperative that pubs are made to stop showing foreign broadcasts of games. It would bring a few more back to Ewood (stop them getting their football kick for next to nothing at the pub and some would come along at least every now and then) although hundreds probably rather than thousands.

Even this will only be a short-term measure however until all games are shown on Sky/Pay per view etc.

Tickets for English football matches are too expensive but that isn't the fault of Rovers - it's the greed of the Premiership as a whole.

[gumboots]

Well, the get them early and they'll be rovers for life certainly seems to have worked with my kids. My daughter still has a season ticket despite the fact that she'll be in France for most of the season because it works out that just attending the matches at the start and end of the season and the christmas holidays she's better off with a young adult's season ticket than with individual match tickets. Think the age group where we could perhaps look at our pricing policy is the bottom end of the young adults as my younger son has to have a young adult season ticket despite still being at school 6th form and I know many of my last year's year 11 pupils were looking at the cost of the young adult ticket - a big step up from juniors - and wondering if they would be able to afford it as they are still at college.

[RovertheHill]

The kids offers have been great for me and my family and I expect my daughters to keep attending.

I think a lot of people are disillusioned with football in general and the "nose in the trough" mentality these days. Idiots like Ashley Cole complaining about being offered £55k per week! Somewhere we've lost 5000 fans (and I'm not even counting those that turned up during the mid-90's). I can't see tonights Panorama programme doing anything other than turning a few more people off football

[OhmiBRFC]

Did we even get to see the goals from Saltzberg? I certainly didn't see them.

Just as an aside should John Williams now be expected to fall on his sword for letting the attendances slip so much? He appears to be doing an OK job with everything else but sweet FA in keeping attendances and interest in the club alive. His position in much of the entertainment industry not subsidised by a collective TV deal would surely be looking untenable. Despite excellent results on the pitch crowds (and I expect revenues too) are falling yet the club appears to be as dynamic as a wet dishcloth. The club must not allow itself to be a collective comfort zone for ex Granada staff and the like. In his own best interest and just like the manager of any relegation threatened team he needs to shift deadwood out and draft people in with new ideas. In short he needs to get rid of poorly performing staff....before they get rid of him.

Before the match there was an in-depth report into the game, about 30 min before kick off I think, and then after the game they was shown.

[Paul]

My daughter still has a season ticket despite the fact that she'll be in France for most of the season because it works out that just attending the matches at the start and end of the season and the christmas holidays she's better off with a young adult's season ticket than with individual match tickets.

Yes, same applies to my eldest boy. It would be interesting to know if the attendance figures include all ST holders or just those that came through the gates fopr any given match?

[The1mattjansen]

I don't think it's the case that lowering prices across the board will bring many more people into Ewood...my previous points have been more along the lines of how putting Cat A+ ticket prices on Sunday games against those teams who don't bring so many fans (such as Chelsea) is backfiring.

Ultimately though the club on the whole is charging as little as it can while also trying to bring in revenue. There are some little things the club can do (as have been put forward) but in reality nothing will really affect the overall situation.

However, I do think it is imperative that pubs are made to stop showing foreign broadcasts of games. It would bring a few more back to Ewood (stop them getting their football kick for next to nothing at the pub and some would come along at least every now and then) although hundreds probably rather than thousands.

Even this will only be a short-term measure however until all games are shown on Sky/Pay per view etc.

Tickets for English football matches are too expensive but that isn't the fault of Rovers - it's the greed of the Premiership as a whole.

All very true in my eyes, good post mate.

[jim mk2]

.

Rovers have to be applauded for the family pricing of STs over the last 10-12 years regretably the investment hasn't worked. The club invetsed in those children for nearly a decade and they no longer attend for a variety of reasons, with the benefit of hindsight it was money down the drain. The theory is right, make them Rovers when they are young, but in today's mobile society the chances of these kids remaining ST holders in the long-term is slight.

Investing in children is never money down the drain.

Those kids may have moved away because of university/work/travel but many of them return to where they grew up and some return to their roots later in life (as I did). If they were like me, those years away would have strengthened their love for Rovers more than ever.

[Johnno_160]

I fully agree with you - jim mk2 ! I myself have moved away due to work and now commute to the games from Peterborough, i will always come back to watch the lads as Ewood is classed as home !But on average a 7 hour round trip plus the cost of a match ticket isnt cheap so now i cant do this week in week out.

The attendance is always going to be affected by people who now live away and have to pay petrol for 7 hours journeyclike myself and then a massive £36 a ticket for some certain games to sit in the Blackburn End.

I'm gutted that i cant afford to do this week in week out like i used to when living close by, and therefore i will admit that i tend to go to the majority of away games as these can be closer to me and sometimes cheaper !!!

As i stated on the official site a few weeks back....i even went to watch Villa vs Newcastle with my girlfriend (aston villa fan) for £20 an adult ticket and then watched the Rovers Chelsea game on sky, we would have watched the Villa game in the pub and Rovers live if it wasnt for £36 an adult !! I'm ashamed about that but that is what is happening to the fans due to the price war !

[AggyBlue]

The cost of watching top flight football in this country.

http://survey.sky.com/morethan/Default.asp...sarticle_id=288

Shocked to see ticket prices in Germany are so cheap, from £7 to £8 and not much more in Spain and Italy.

[Athlete]

You think the club haven't been looking at pricing policy? They aren't stupid, nor are they out of touch with the fans. They know tickets are too expensive.

FYI, JW sees his role at Ewood as that of a fund raiser. He sees Blackburn Rovers as a club who's sole intention is to get a football team onto the pitch. As good a team as is possible. Rovers are different to some clubs in that sense.

So to do that, he needs to maximise income from all areas, including ticket prices. Now if anyone has a formula that hasn't been tried, then email him, he's always ready to listen.

The truth to me, is that the club have tried just about every method of maximising income that they know. This season they're obviously trying to bring in more money from away fans. One things for sure though, if the way forward was to reduce prices, they would have done that. There's absolutely NO evidence that reducing prices will bring in more revenue.

Of course, they could reduce prices, but what would the fans think of lower league football again?

JW seeing his role as a fund raiser - well most of us on here would gladly like/take JW's role for a lot less than JW gets paid ! - is he not on an handsome salary of around £300K per annum or something similar ?

[roversmum]

well most of us on here would gladly like/take JW's role for a lot less than JW gets paid

No offence, Athlete, but I've just choked on my cup of tea at the thought of your good self in JW's shoes.......

[thenodrog]

Rovers have to be applauded for the family pricing of STs over the last 10-12 years regretably the investment hasn't worked. The club invetsed in those children for nearly a decade and they no longer attend for a variety of reasons, with the benefit of hindsight it was money down the drain. The theory is right, make them Rovers when they are young, but in today's mobile society the chances of these kids remaining ST holders in the long-term is slight.

Excellent observation Paul. Every response on here appears to suggest that their kids are still going so does anybody know the results of any research which has been done to identify which age group / social class etc is leaving in greater or fewer numbers?

Its easy to say Spurs are in a greater position to compete because of there larger fanbase, but the fact remains that even if they earn an extra £5m per year from gates, this can easily be cancelled out with there pathetic transfer dealings, or paying somebody like danny murphy/steed malbranque/mido etc etc £30k a week to sit on there bench all season.

Ditto for BRFC or have you forgotten the likes of Ferguson, Amoruso, Gresko, Matteo and dare I say it your namesake?

Edited September 20, 2006 by thenodrog

[den]

The concern within the club, is that kids go down to Ewood until they have to pay full price. Then they don't come along any more. Not all kids, but quite a lot. It's the price that forces the issue.

[thenodrog]

The decline since has been alarming. I don't agree with Thenodrog about Lancashire United,

I think that you will have to in the fullness of time aesf.

Rem I have been down this falling attendance road before in the 60's. Sod all could stop it then and sod all can stop it now. Too many people have simply already 'bought the Premiership T shirt' as they say.

The concern within the club, is that kids go down to Ewood until they have to pay full price. Then they don't come along any more. Not all kids, but quite a lot. It's the price that forces the issue.

But has any valid and worthwhile research been carried out into the breakdown of the absentees?

[den]

I wouldn't think so, Theno. Having said that, it should be quite easy to use the existing database to find the answers.

[FourLaneBlue]

The concern within the club, is that kids go down to Ewood until they have to pay full price. Then they don't come along any more. Not all kids, but quite a lot. It's the price that forces the issue.

Surely this should be about making thems fans for life? Not that many people would be able to go every year of their life, especially with leaving for university etc, but may well come back in years or even decades to come.

As for kids going along until they have to pay full price...surely that is better than them never going at all?

[gumboots]

The problem area would seem to be first the 16-18 year olds who have to pay young adult prices despite still being in full time education and quite often have saturday jobs anyway to help pay for all the other things they have/want to do. Then there must be a problem with those who have just left Uni and are already saddled with debts of £10,000+ and may be struggling to get a job, buy a car/house etc. Then there are those who have full time employment but are buying houses, starting families etc often on low incomes. There are those who don't have jobs etc When our kids were small we had one adult and one junior season ticket and the little one had a free ticket. Affording that was a nightmare and even now we're probably still paying for those early years in ongoing credit card debts. We can now afford to spend more but not everyone finds themselves in that position. The cost of matches in France is, as in germany etc, much lower than here. We paid 15 euros for our seats to watch Lorient play Bordeaux in August and if we'd gone to watch Lorient - Lyon last week it would have cost the same.

[OhmiBRFC]

I'm taking my friend to her first football match on thursday against salazburg, shes already talking off going to more games and maybe away games aswell. I think with enough encouragment I can get her to go to a few matches and maybe a season ticket next year. I've already managed to get my younger brother to get one.

[thenodrog]

But has any valid and worthwhile research been carried out into the breakdown of the absentees?

I wouldn't think so, Theno. Having said that, it should be quite easy to use the existing database to find the answers.

If it hasn't then it's disgraceful and the powers that be need to be sticking their size 10's up JW's lazy arse.

[roversmum]

Hold on a minute. There is now a database manager who is able to pull out all kinds of stats. JW told us that each match attendance is analysed thoroughly - I'm sure it was at one of our meetings earlier this year where others were present (one Den missed perhaps?)

Possibly the only thing that may not yet have been picked up on is that away supporters have lately got crafty (re Hannah's recent post about the Man City match) in that they are buying cheaper tickets eg in the JWL outer and then getting themselves transferred to where their own supporters are sitting in dearer seats at the Darwen End. As yet I don't suppose it's enough to make much difference though a bit cheeky.

Incidentally, I am no longer a season ticket holder in my own name as I come as Mr Roversmum's carer; however I still get letters/stuff about various offers (eg the membership thing) etc through being on the database.

Edited September 20, 2006 by roversmum

[gumboots]

It's not cheeky by City fans - it's typical. Remember when they got promoted and gatecrashed the family stand towards the end of the game soaking kids with their beer despite it being a criminal offence to have alcohol within sight of the pitch. they also intimidated a lot of fans outside the ground to try to get tickets before the match. I think I dislike their fans as a whole more than any others although I do know individual nice City fans.

[92er]

The problem area would seem to be first the 16-18 year olds who have to pay young adult prices despite still being in full time education and quite often have saturday jobs anyway to help pay for all the other things they have/want to do.

Before the young adult season tickets were introduced, the 17 year olds went on to full season tickets and most people could not afford that, so there are likely to be more 17-21 year olds than before.