[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[Tris]

Rubbish, What was the gate today? About 17k of which 1500 - 2k ish were from Wigan. (They voted with their feet as well)

So straight away we've lost at least 4,000 walk on fans because of the ridiculous pricing today, probably more as not every ST holder would have been able to attend on Thursday night.

We seem to be making a misguided attempt to defy the law of supply and demand and it's backfiring disastrously.

People aren't that stupid and no-one is going to pay 36 quid to go in a ground that's nearly half empty. It would be a different matter entirely if the ground was full or nearly full.

We are driving support away in their droves with this categorised pricing.

When are BRISA going to get their act into gear and campaign strongly against the current pricing policy?

In your obsession to rant against the pricing policy, BRISA, etc, etc you've missed a few things out.

If Premier League games suddenly attracted the same pricing as UEFA / Carling Cup games, then Season Ticket holders would be the first to be up in arms (and Season Ticket revenue next summer would be destroyed).

15 quid in x 19 games = £285. Season tickets in BBE = £460. It's not rocket science.

YOU CAN GET THOSE 19 GAMES IN THE JACK WALKER LOWER (OR RIVERSIDE) FOR £28.89 PER MONTH, OVER 10 MONTHS. THAT'S £15.20 PER GAME. THOSE AREAS ARE NOT SOLD OUT, EVEN WITH WALK ON FANS JOINING ST HOLDERS.

Rovers are not driving support away with the pricing. Supporters are choosing not to attend for other reasons - have been for 5 seasons - and Rovers are doing what they can to get a gate revenue which allows the club to employ the likes of Mark Hughes and Benni McCarthy, and compete with the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (and Salzburg).

In addition Rovers have more schemes than any other Prem League club to encourage walk on fans to come back - not only the bargain areas in the JW and Riverside, but the membership scheme and the reward card.

Stop whinging and recognise the environment in which we compete. You are urging OUR Premier League club to price admission on a par with Bury - who are 80 places below us out of the 92 clubs. To do so would be totally unrealistic and would destroy what we have at Rovers.

[RevidgeBlue]

In your obsession to rant against the pricing policy, BRISA, etc, etc you've missed a few things out.

If Premier League games suddenly attracted the same pricing as UEFA / Carling Cup games, then Season Ticket holders would be the first to be up in arms (and Season Ticket revenue next summer would be destroyed).

15 quid in x 19 games = £285. Season tickets in BBE = £460. It's not rocket science.

YOU CAN GET THOSE 19 GAMES IN THE JACK WALKER LOWER (OR RIVERSIDE) FOR £28.89 PER MONTH, OVER 10 MONTHS. THAT'S £15.20 PER GAME. THOSE AREAS ARE NOT SOLD OUT, EVEN WITH WALK ON FANS JOINING ST HOLDERS.

Rovers are not driving support away with the pricing. Supporters are choosing not to attend for other reasons - have been for 5 seasons - and Rovers are doing what they can to get a gate revenue which allows the club to employ the likes of Mark Hughes and Benni McCarthy, and compete with the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (and Salzburg).

In addition Rovers have more schemes than any other Prem League club to encourage walk on fans to come back - not only the bargain areas in the JW and Riverside, but the membership scheme and the reward card.

Stop whinging and recognise the environment in which we compete. You are urging OUR Premier League club to price admission on a par with Bury - who are 80 places below us out of the 92 clubs. To do so would be totally unrealistic and would destroy what we have at Rovers.

In your usual rush to have a pop at me, you've made several unsubstantiated assumptions above.

I've never once said League games should be priced at 15 quid but I certainly don't think any of them should be priced at 36 quid. Not with the ground a third empty.

I actually think the cheapest games are slightly too cheap but that the categorised pricing should be scrapped until the ground is full or nearly full again. A standard price for all games which won't instantly put people off is what is urgently needed. People should be coming down to Ewood to watch us not the opposition.

[Jan]

It's no use, Tris. What the "walk-on" (or part-time) supporters want is to be treated like (or seemingly better than) season ticket holders without giving the club any loyalty in return.

There are many excuses why people don't come. None of them are the club's fault. It could be argued that any circumstance these people have is down to their own choices and since they WERE their own choices, that to then whinge on is a bit rich.

[Manchester Blue]

Incidentally did anyone else get the wonderfully timed email from Rovers Marketing dept. At 21.21 today I receieved an email thanking me for my support on Thursday and asking me to book tickets for the game against Wigan. That would be the one that took place 6 hours prior to this email. Apparently they also sent out mailings on Thursday urging people to come to the Uefa game, at 20.30. Genius!

[Tris]

In your usual rush to have a pop at me, you've made several unsubstantiated assumptions above.

I've never once said League games should be priced at 15 quid but I certainly don't think any of them should be priced at 36 quid. Not with the ground a third empty.

I actually think the cheapest games are slightly too cheap but that the categorised pricing should be scrapped until the ground is full or nearly full again. A standard price for all games which won't instantly put people off is what is urgently needed. People should be coming down to Ewood to watch us not the opposition.

The ground hasn't been nearly full on a regular basis for 11 years. Every other pricing policy has been tried - including those which have ST holders spitting dummies out all over the the local media - so now we have one which generates great income from away fans we should support it.

Especially when the cheapest areas for home fans don't sell out.

[Paul]

While I agree with all the points made by Tris and others regarding the club's efforts surely the Wigan/Salzburg comparison demonstartes price is the only real factor? Pricing policy is not entirely Rovers fault, the PL has created the ridiculous pricing policy which exists in the game today. Rovers are simply trying to compete. Premier League football is an over-priced, over-exposed, poorly promoted, widely available, product with an unsavoury image for many. No wonder it doesn't sell at these ludicrous prices.

I can't imagine any realistic circumstances under which I'd watch any away PL game. I simply refuse to pay these prices and only continue going to Ewood because the ST is such good value. If I was a walk-on I doubt I would have bothered with Wigan. I'm mean Wigan? So what it's only Wigan. It was a nice day, I'd probably have gone out on the bike.

Against Salzburg we had 18888, Wigan was 17859. It's widely accepted we have 12000 ST holders, giving nearly 7000 walk-ons for Salzburg. Wigan had around 1500 at the game, meaning 4359 Rovers fans paid on the day. Salzburg are not exactly the creme de la creme of European football yet they attracted nearly 19000 home fans. Wigan, local rivals, a member of the EPL "the most exciting league in the world" (I'm told), no TV coverage, etc, etc. and the home crowd falls by around 2500.

The reason and solution is obvious. The PL as a whole needs to wake up to the simple fact that fans all over the country are turning away from a boring**, over-priced, over-hyped, over-exposed league which at best only four teams have any realistic chance of winning. Then what do I know, I'm just a customer/fan and Sky is more important than me. Thursday's game had relevance, the result mattered and the price was right, you can't say the same of the Wigan game.

The attendance against Chelsea in the league cup will be interesting. See sponsorship really works I don't even know what it's called these days. Which delights me.

** boring needs defining. Rovers are playing some scintilating football which I'm really enjoying. The PL though is utterly boring, the champions are decided, yesterday's result has little impact in these terms. Who is top of the league? I neither know nor care. Who is in the bottom three? Ditto.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Paul

[philipl]

Side-stepping the current bitching (perhaps)

- The club has said that Season Ticket sales are over 13,000 this season which means a slight INCREASE on last season at this time,

- I'll comment again that the steady decline in attendance coincided with the introduction of the drummers. They clearly annoy many people intensely.

- Less tongue in cheek, the ease of availability of foreign TV in pubs in an area where TV watching and pub going are way above the national average is probably a straight causal link to Rovers suffering a disproportionate loss in attendance

- without getting 'drog going but when we had 26,000+ averages, we had local rivals doing not very well. Now, virtually all our local rivals are having strong seasons and/or playing in divisions higher than they are normally to be found. I know when travelling in from my mother's the days of seeing masses of fans coming from west and north Lancashire are dramatically a thing of the past.

Two observations of hope:

- will the Prem attendance group recommend a pause in increases or a general reduction in attendance costs for this summer? Prem clubs will be getting a 60% windfall increase from TV rights so a cross the board 25% cut in attendance charges is EASILY affordable.

- in the past, when Rovers have been playing well there has been a general increasing buzz in the town which isn't reflected in gates until suddenly a game comes along which is a must-see and bang, gates permanently shifted up by two or three thousand. In 80/1, league gates were around 5,000 to 8,000 until the Cup run and tickets for the Villa tie went on sale at the Blackpool game. 14,000 turned up and there wasn't a sub-10,000 gate for any game in the rest of the season.

Is there any chance of this pattern repeating in modern day Blackburn?

[thenodrog]

While I agree with all the points made by Tris and others regarding the club's efforts surely the Wigan/Salzburg comparison demonstartes price is the only real factor?

Some good points Paul but never mind supporters have you compared revenue of the two games? Dare I say it but it's prob of far more importance.

[Jan]

Some good points Paul but never mind supporters have you compared revenue of the two games? Dare I say it but it's prob of far more importance.

Doing a quick and dirty calculation, Rovers probably received less than half the revenue for the Salzburg game than it did for the Wigan one.

[thenodrog]

And I bet we didn't sell half as many pies either!

[den]

And I bet we didn't sell half as many pies either!

Pies? Discussed by Wiganners here

[FourLaneBlue]

Incidentally did anyone else get the wonderfully timed email from Rovers Marketing dept. At 21.21 today I receieved an email thanking me for my support on Thursday and asking me to book tickets for the game against Wigan. That would be the one that took place 6 hours prior to this email. Apparently they also sent out mailings on Thursday urging people to come to the Uefa game, at 20.30. Genius!

OK so the timing leaves a little to be desired, especially as I only received mine for the Wigan game in the early hours of today, but once that is sorted out this will be an excellent initiative by Rovers. It means they can be sure that all the fans receive the information as well as a reminder. Much better than just advertising in the LET (which it actually also did as well) as it can reach those outside the local area. With the new initiatives and the membership scheme as well as 'The Card' scheme, the club is coming up with plenty of new initiatives. We are often quick to harrangue them for not doing anything but right now they are pulling out all the stops.

So well done to the club

Again though I'd hope they look at getting kids in cheaper, some have suggested being quoted a price of £13 for a kid which is pretty expensive when there are so many empty seats. As they are accompanied by adults we should be looking to get them in cheap as they'll have to be coming along with an adult paying full whack hopefully. Having cheap tickets for league games can be self-defeating as many season ticket holders will begrudge those who can afford to pay more getting in for cheap and rightly so. However, I don't think many would begrudge kids getting in for less.

Edited October 2, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Ste B]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ste B @ Oct 1 2006, 21:22 ) 449146[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Perhaps if you got off your arse and contributed something to BRISA rather than bitch about it on the internet then BRISA would be able to.

Why, is it up to me personally?

Its not up to you personally, but if people want BRISA to take a direction then they should contribute in some way rather than sit on their arses complaining.

[Manchester Blue]

Well done to the club? I don't see how they can be applauded for emailing people to come to games, after the game has taken place. We were informed that John Williams was surprised that people had a negative impression of our Marketing dept. It's all well and good saying at least they are trying and ok the emails were a waste of time but the intentions were good. These people are paid a large amount of money for the job of marketing this club. Everything I have heard and seen shows they are not in any way earning that money.

[Fife Rover]

7,000+ walk ons v Salzburg DMF for a night match......where there even half that number today?

Could it also be down to the fact that there were only two intervening days for the finances to recover?

[Jan]

Could it also be down to the fact that there were only two intervening days for the finances to recover?

From £15????

[92er]

I'm sure there will be refence to the "card" elsewhere on here but I have been unable to find it.

Anyway, I got a letter recently about it. Every time you buy a Home League ticket, you get a "proof of purchase" sticker.

Reward A with a minimum of 3 stickers-£10 off any game.

Reward B with a minimum of 5 stickers-£20 off any game.

Reward C with a minimum of 7 stickers-free ticket to any game.

I have spoken to 2 people about the scheme today. "A", who is a young man who works Saturdays and would not buy a season ticket, went on Thursday and will go to a number of games during the season. He didn't know about the card, but was really quite interested in it as an idea and will look to use it. "B" is an old codger like me. He lives outside the area and can have problems coming to week end matches because of his business. He often comes with one of his sons. Again, the Reward is of interest, especially to his son.

It will be interesting to see if the "Card" does catch on. What I like about it is it can get people into the habit of going to Ewood.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Doing a quick and dirty calculation, Rovers probably received less than half the revenue for the Salzburg game than it did for the Wigan one.

Perhaps the best comparison, not that we are privy to the numbers to make it, would be the gate revenue received this game versus the same fixture last year, which is bound to be down substantially as the number of people paying on the day was down by around 40%.

I see the logic in bumping up prices for when the visitors are a) full of famous stars, and/or bring a huge following, but I think the new strategy for this year had been over-zealously applied. Personally, if Man City, Everton or Wigan were playing on my back lawn, I'd shut the curtains. And I suspect their fans view a trip to Blackburn as something less than a grand day out as well.

By all means charge Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool at 35 quid and accept a less than full house, but Wigan is not a premium game for Rovers fans, nor is Blackburn for Wigan.

[BrianPotter]

Sorry guys, but the facts are that we had a great season last year, we're through to the group stages for the UEFA Cup, we have won four games on the bounce, we are playing attractive attacking football at the highest level and we have some great players. THAT SHOULD MARKET THE CLUB TO SUPPORTERS ON ITS OWN. No need for marketing campaigns.

For me as a supporter our attendances are becomming worrying, so god knows what the board and Walker Trust must be thinking. I don't honestly think that the problem lies with the club - its down to the supporters who continue to choose, for whatever reason, not to attend Ewood. The club can do little else to increase the gates other than giving away tickets for free (and I'm honestly sure that if we did that some people would still not attend!).

The gate against Salzburg was just short of 19K, made up of 13K season ticket holders and 5.5K paying spectators. Prices for this game were £15 for adults and £5 for juiors - so for me this scheme attracted a decent gate for this game, bearing in mind it was on TV. Rovers have allways struggled with gates in the cup matches for years (even in the Dalglish era). The very worrying trend is that this is now breeding into the prem fixtures as well.

Take the Wigan game, a local derby played on a Sunday afternoon and not on TV. A gate of 17.8k is frankly pathetic. I would estimate that there were probably 2.5k fans missing from the previous game against Salzburg. Now I have no doubt that the reason behind this was probably the difference in price. But now look at this from the clubs point of view, if slashing ticket prices is only going to add 2.5k onto the gate it is simply not worth doing. The revenue generated from a 16.5K home attendance paying full price will be greater than a 18.5k home attendance paying reduced prices, so whats the point.

What needs to happen (and I can't honestly ever see it) is for the club to reduce the pricing and the supporters respond. A home turnout of 23-25k should be what we get when prices are reduced, and then and only then will the club consider a long term reduced pricing strategy.

It is about time the Blackburn public showed some committment to the club by attending Ewood.

[Tris]

but Wigan is not a premium game for Rovers fans, nor is Blackburn for Wigan.

So it didn't get premium pricing - it was the middle category so the vast majority of walk on tickets were available for £24 - £32.

You could venture that it should have been the lowest category (£15 - £25) but charging 2500 Wiganers the extra 7 quid brings in £17,500.

[Fife Rover]

From £15????

This may come as a surprise to you Jan, but there are a significant number of people around to whom an unbudgeted sum of £15 or more coming twice in the same week is a mortal blow. How do I know? I'll leave that one for you to work out.

[trs]

Take the Wigan game, a local derby played on a Sunday afternoon and not on TV. A gate of 17.8k is frankly pathetic. I would estimate that there were probably 2.5k fans missing from the previous game against Salzburg.

The fact is the Rovers match yesterday was shown on TV and from what I'm led to believe every single match this season has been shown live on 1 station or another. (bar salzburg away)

We left a certain pub at 2.50pm yesterday with the landlord telling us we must be mad to pay what we do instead of sitting in the warmth of his pub, enjoying the match on tv and havin a few pints for half the cost.

Now whilst I would never consider such a thing, believe me, there are many that do. To see lads coming in as we were leaving with there rovers shirts on, ordering thier drinks and parking down for the next couple of hours or so was a sad sight indeed.

[Jan]

This may come as a surprise to you Jan, but there are a significant number of people around to whom an unbudgeted sum of £15 or more coming twice in the same week is a mortal blow. How do I know? I'll leave that one for you to work out.

But the Wigan game was a Premiership game (therefore shouldn't have been unbudgeted) and it WAS known from last season that we'd have 2 European games, so you had at least 4 months to budget for them!!!

[Fife Rover]

But the Wigan game was a Premiership game (therefore shouldn't have been unbudgeted) and it WAS known from last season that we'd have 2 European games, so you had at least 4 months to budget for them!!!

And how do you increase your fixed income to do that Jan? When it barely covers life's absolute essentials and does not allow for sudden un forseen increases in things like gas and electricity or mortgage interest rates etc.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Fife Rover

[stuwilky]

I'm sure there will be refence to the "card" elsewhere on here but I have been unable to find it.

Anyway, I got a letter recently about it. Every time you buy a Home League ticket, you get a "proof of purchase" sticker.

Reward A with a minimum of 3 stickers-£10 off any game.

Reward B with a minimum of 5 stickers-£20 off any game.

Reward C with a minimum of 7 stickers-free ticket to any game.

I have spoken to 2 people about the scheme today. "A", who is a young man who works Saturdays and would not buy a season ticket, went on Thursday and will go to a number of games during the season. He didn't know about the card, but was really quite interested in it as an idea and will look to use it. "B" is an old codger like me. He lives outside the area and can have problems coming to week end matches because of his business. He often comes with one of his sons. Again, the Reward is of interest, especially to his son.

It will be interesting to see if the "Card" does catch on. What I like about it is it can get people into the habit of going to Ewood.

It was the card that actually got me and the wife back in the habit of going, and after a season on utilisign it to its fullest value we got ST's.