[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[thenodrog]

Can anyone explain how Bolton are managing to maintain their attendances? They play some of the dourest football in the land .... the club is run by charletans...most of their fans have to make extra effort to get to Horwich ... the pubs of Notlob screen their games .... and yet they still pull in 5k or so more home fans than we do when only a few seasons ago we clearly had the edge in numbers. Solve this riddle and we may start to get to the bottom of the problem.

Although part of GM now Bolton has a lot bigger population than Blackburn and is more affluent imo with a smaller %age of immigrants. However during our promotion season we had 5000 more supporters than them on average. I can only assume that a top six side, a new ground to be proud of, Europe, a great mgment duo in Gartside and Allardyce and the media dislike for them has given Notlob supporters a collective spirit resulting in their equivalent of the 'Walker years'. They are on an upward curve for the moment whilst the perception in Blackburn is that we are on a long term downward one.

[roversmum]

Was just about to say, I believe the population of Bolton is at least twice that of Blackburn, notwithstanding the surrounding areas.

[AggyBlue]

Was just about to say, I believe the population of Bolton is at least twice that of Blackburn, notwithstanding the surrounding areas.

The towns populations:-

Blackburn 105 000

Bolton 140 000

The Boroughs:-

Blackburn 140 000

Bolton 265 000

[roversmum]

my reckoning was slightly out, but there's the difference.

[USABlue]

Can anyone explain how Bolton are managing to maintain their attendances? They play some of the dourest football in the land .... the club is run by charletans...most of their fans have to make extra effort to get to Horwich ... the pubs of Notlob screen their games .... and yet they still pull in 5k or so more home fans than we do when only a few seasons ago we clearly had the edge in numbers. Solve this riddle and we may start to get to the bottom of the problem.

Perhaps I can shed a little light on that from my pespective over here. Now granted I do not see anywhere near as much coverage of the footy as you folks in dear old England but let me give you my thoughts.

As I saw it when Bolton started to do well, remember we did lots better than them in the Prem initially, they seemed to get a whole lot of positive media coverage (even though their style is crap). All the talk was of what a genius Fat Sam was and the constant parallels drawn to the little choo choo train that could really started to make me sick.

It seemed to me that Bolton were getting a hell of a lot of positive press. When we did well we got little or no positive press, in fact we still have a Stigma attached that we are naughty. When in fact we now are capable of playing some delightful footy. Take it as you want but many people do not want to be associated with a team that is drawing negative press, particularly the young uns, they don't want to be ridiculed for following the team constantly bashed by the media. If we can get a sustained run of positives and superlatives coming from the press and TV it will help, not sure we ever will cos I can't help but wonder if we still aren't "blacklisted" somehow for winning the Title.

I also wonder, though I did not realise it at the time, did we lose our identity to some of the locals when we flogged Messrs Duff and Dunn. Do we need some more local talent for the fans to relate to and feel more a part of what is going on.

The towns populations:-

Blackburn 105 000

Bolton 140 000

The Boroughs:-

Blackburn 140 000

Bolton 265 000

And what are the respective populations of.... well let's just say "people that may have no football interest"

[BRFC4EVA]

Talking of Bolton, ive just noticed that tickets for their end are prices at only £15 for adults and £5 for kids. Does that mean the same will apply for the BBE lower and other parts of the ground, or if its a misprint, or if perhaps both clubs have done a deal and we will get cheap tickets at their place??

http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ticke...~906722,00.html

[Paul]

Talking of Bolton, ive just noticed that tickets for their end are prices at only £15 for adults and £5 for kids. Does that mean the same will apply for the BBE lower and other parts of the ground, or if its a misprint, or if perhaps both clubs have done a deal and we will get cheap tickets at their place??

http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ticke...~906722,00.html

I do hope this is a mistake on Bolton's behalf. I'm all for price promotion etc but it will really take the biscuit when away fans pay less tham ST holders. Especially when it's Bolton who stitched us up good and proper 2-3 years ago on tickets at their place.

[blue phil]

And what are the respective populations of.... well let's just say "people that may have no football interest"

Too many ....and far too many

[ABBEY]

another radical idea.....

hows about at 10 mins past kick off open the gates...policed for seg of course,but if free walk on later and there will be extra food drink etc but it could fill the ground and create atmosphere and maybe get some to stay in the long term.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Come again Abs?

[ABBEY]

if the games not sold out,wait until 10 mins after kick off and open the gates or charge a quid ...rovers would get extra revenue etc

[Exiled_Rover]

And what about all those fans that have paid a good deal of money to watch the team? If Wigan's supporters are going to complain about free pies for four thousand travelling fans, what do you think thirteen thousand Roverites are going to say about your idea?

[Fife Rover]

And what about all those fans that have paid a good deal of money to watch the team? If Wigan's supporters are going to complain about free pies for four thousand travelling fans, what do you think thirteen thousand Roverites are going to say about your idea?

And what if nobody pays to go in and all wait for the free entry?

[American]

I thought it was very rude of Rovers to arrange a game when I couldn't make it. I'm on stage in amateur opera at the time!

Are you the one who signals that the opera is over?

[Ewood Spark]

Although part of GM now Bolton has a lot bigger population than Blackburn and is more affluent imo with a smaller %age of immigrants.

That's a smoke-screen. These ratios have not altered significantly in the last 5 years.

However during our promotion season we had 5000 more supporters than them on average. I can only assume that a top six side......,

ditto for Rovers

.... a new ground to be proud of,....

ditto

Europe,....

ditto

a great mgment duo in Gartside and Allardyce......

ditto. (for above read Williams and Hughes)

and the media dislike for them has given Notlob supporters a collective spirit .......

ditto.

They are on an upward curve for the moment whilst the perception in Blackburn is that we are on a long term downward one.

So back to my original question....Why?

[Paul Mellelieu]

If I can find it I'll dig out a new report called "The State of English cities" which is a survey of economic performance, growth and wealth. It makes for depressing reading for Blackburn. I've reported some of this before, but the town is ranked as the highest in terms of fall in family disposable income - quite a shocking statistic. I'll find it today at work and come back with some details.

[thenodrog]

So back to my original question....Why?

Well I have had a go sparky so now you try.

But....If our attendances were examined along with all those since the war our gates in the 90's would be seen as a temporary 'spike' on the graph as a result of the Walker factor and not as a norm. Lets wait to see what Macca comes up with tonight.

Edited October 4, 2006 by thenodrog

[gumboots]

Still seems to me that the immigrant population is one of the areas that we have a problem with. Most people are brought into football by grandparents, parents or other family members or friends. When your family first arrived here to settle Rovers were lower league and teams like Liverpool and Man U were reasonably local and well-known. Many of my Asian heritage kids in school follow Liverpool and Man U simply because their parents latched onto them and never thought of going to Rovers. Rovers will struggle to bring in support from among the Asian heritage population until they can compete year in year out with the big clubs and not just in a good year. Add to that that if our school population is anything to go by then the Asian heritage population is growing and there are bound to be problems with crowd numbers. When you then factor in low income for many families (we have a huge number of families on benefits, free school meals etc) then you have an even more significant problem. Then add in the fact that in towns like Clitheroe, where Rovers could expect to pick up fans, the population is as much Burnley supporting as Rovers fans and the rise of Accy stanley has attracted many people. Many of the population of Clitheroe are now elderly as it's not a place young people can afford to move to and if they haven't been rovers fans before they're unlikely to start coming now. Young families moving in tend to be from outside the area (people moving from high priced housing areas who can afford clitheroe prices) and so already have their allegiance to a different club. That's true of most of the ribble Valley towns. Many of our young people go away to University and, although those who have been season ticket holders may make real efforts to get back for games, those who might have been walk on fans probably don't.

[Blue blood]

Personally I think that the card and sticker scheme is an excellent idea. Focusing an initiative on fans who go regularly but do not have season tickets is great as often they seem to be overlooked in favour of improving season ticket offers and ways to draw in more new fans.

The way I see it this segment seems to be the link in the chain between new fans and season ticket holders, and schemes focussing on this segment will hopefully ensure that more fans progress along this spectrum. Getting new fans to come once is one thing, and rovers do a fair bit with various pricing initiatives to do so. Keeping people coming is a different matter, and hopefully schemes like this one will be one way of retaining and rewarding those who go on a fairly regular basis. Hopefully it'll encourage those who are coming for the first time to come again as it helps out with the prices, whilst also acknowledging the loyalty of those who come on a regualar basis. The fact benefits are available for a range of fans from those who'll come to three/four games a season to those who will be getting towards half the home games or greater shows what a well thought out scheme it is. Full marks to rovers on this one.

[92er]

It was the card that actually got me and the wife back in the habit of going, and after a season on utilisign it to its fullest value we got ST's.

I obviously think it's a good idea! Until the details of the card came through the post, I had only really known about the £20 membership, which also makes sense, but the "card" is something many people could publicise.

[Paul]

Looks like Bolton at home is £15 adult and £5 concession, possibly in all areas. Tickets should be on sale tomorrow.

Any opinions from ST holders on this? If you're sat in the BBE end you will have paid £23 for your seat while visiting walk-ups, home and away, will pay £15.

[gumboots]

Season ticket from our point of view is not just matchday ticket but investment in club and guaranteed ticket for any final we happen to get to. However, I would not like to see too many games where tickets for walk-ons are cheaper than my season ticket. Don't have a problem with the occasional promotional offer and I think the club understand this. Season ticket holders are still what gives them a guaranteed income and they will not want to upset us, especially those who have had tickets for a long time, as we are the fans who enable any forward planning to take place because income from us is already in the bank or promised.

Besides we need support against Bolton because who in their right mind would actually choose to watch their football over that of some other clubs.

Edited October 4, 2006 by gumboots

[Ozz]

Looks like Bolton at home is £15 adult and £5 concession, possibly in all areas. Tickets should be on sale tomorrow.

Any opinions from ST holders on this? If you're sat in the BBE end you will have paid £23 for your seat while visiting walk-ups, home and away, will pay £15.

Happens every year Paul, comes as no surprise. It is still far cheaper for me to by a ST, as I go to every home match. As long as you expect the odd game like this when you commit to a ST, then no problem.

[Paul]

Happens every year Paul, comes as no surprise.

I don't ever recall away fans paying less than ST holders? Home support yes, away support I'm less sure about.

[FourLaneBlue]

For years there has been the argument as to whether cheap tickets really will bring in those who have lapsed...yet usually it has been for unattractive fixtures such as early round of the cup or not so attractive opposition such as Charlton and Fulham, who rarely if ever bring a large following.

Yet nobody can state that a local derby at home to a high-flying Bolton team isn't one of the bigger games. They are connected by a train line and it's a short drive through Darwen that connects the towns. This should be the answer to whether Rovers lowering the prices will result in a much larger attendance. Man City and Wigan were both well under 20,000. It'll be disappointing if such an initiative doesn't see another 10,000 on the gate - I'd expect Bolton will be bringing many more fans in any case so it certainly isn't too much to ask.