[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[philipl]

'drog your question is an old one and I answered the last time you asked it.

When I was in the UK I was a season ticket holder (which was of dubious value given as the most I got to was 20 home matches and usually 10 to 12) and sponsored the match ball and took an executive box at least once every season.

And that went from Division 2 to the Championship season and beyond.

Now tell us all about your financial support of the Rovers.

[AndyC]

I agree partly with the Jim sentiments, but for me, it's also a question of entertainment full stop.

There will always be a hard core element of blackburn Rovers fans that will watch the team come hell or high water. However, for many fans out there, myself included, who will always be supporters of the club, it's just we do not want to waste very hard earned money on watching terrible football. That's not entertainment it's punishment.

Scenario 1) bloke 'a' goes to watch 4 games on the trot and probably pays about £300 inc travel, beer etc. The team plays rubbish football and he goes away from every game wound up and thoroughly peed off. The only respite he gets is to 'bitch' about it on here.

Scenario2) bloke 'b' is also a rovers fan. he decides not to go to the games for a while, as he's not enjoying it. He still gets text alerts sent to his phone, watches sky sports / soccer saturday / grandstand to ensure he gets the results. If they lose, he's peed off, but nothing like he would be if he had gone to the game. He then spends £300 on a long weekend to Barcelona with the missus. Has an amazing time and plans to see a bit more of the world.

Now tell me why bloke b should carry on watching the team when they are playing so badly? just because 'you're not a real fan unless you go to every game' Well so what! I couldn't care less what label is put on it - it simply comes down to a straight forward choice between how you spend your hard earned spare time!

All that aside - Hughes has the boys playing exciting football again, so I think I'll be lifting my self imposed ban soon!

Football fans fickle? Yes! It's my right to be!

[BRFC4EVA]

Wigan have a complete sell out for their game against Arsenal on saturday. A record crowd will be there as both the home end and the away end are sold out for the clash.

That will see them pull further ahead in the crowd battle!!

Its up to us to respond against Everton, but with it being cat A+, i wouldnt hold my breath too much!

[joey_big_nose]

TND is completely accurate here.

If we do not raise the money to buy players through decent crowds then we are screwed.

The entertainment on offer at Rovers is improving but the fact of the matter is that other teams can play awfully and still get in 25k+.

If people are going to stay away for whatever reason, and that is perfectly their right, then we can expect, inevitably, to expire as a premiership force. Once the Walker money runs out it is all over. One bad manager and a relegation and that will be that as not only will we have tiny crowds but also vastly cheaper tickets than the other sides we are competing against.

It is absolutely a personal choice, but it is a personal choice that will end the club as a top flight team.

Lets just hope Hughes, his succesors and the board can put it off for as long as possible, or, somehow miraculously, BRISA can get 5k-7k extra fans in every week even if we play shocking football.

[thenodrog]

'drog your question is an old one and I answered the last time you asked it.

When I was in the UK I was a season ticket holder (which was of dubious value given as the most I got to was 20 home matches and usually 10 to 12) and sponsored the match ball and took an executive box at least once every season.

And that went from Division 2 to the Championship season and beyond. 

Now tell us all about your financial support of the Rovers.

360998[/snapback]

So you WERE a Rovers fan in those days? Good! Well done Philip. Are you now simply one of the 9000 less v Charlton than we had 3 years ago?

Whether you are or not

1. do you expect that BRFC have sold on your ST seat(s)

and......

2. Can you personally not support the principle of supporting the club financially without actually attending home matches?

As for me just a plain old 2 ST's every year, a few away games, a few kits and prezzy's bought at the store and funding the odd game under the heading of corporate hospitality. Is that OK for you? I do what I can.

Maybe I could use the Blues Bar more......I dunno........

Edited November 16, 2005 by thenodrog

[colin]

So you WERE a Rovers fan in those days?  Good!  Well done Philip.  Are you now simply one of the 9000 less v Charlton than we had 3 years ago? 

Whether you are or not

1.  do you expect that BRFC have sold on your ST seat(s)

and......

2.  Can you personally not support the principle of supporting the club financially with actually attending home matches?   

361093[/snapback]

1. Yes, those selfish so-and-so who have emigrated to the USA, Australia, Malta etc should expect Rovers to keep their seats for them and attend the home matches.

2. And they should attend home matches too. Blooming slackers, and I bet if they did they would leave before full time in order to get the plane back to Sydney or where ever. Useless part-time supporters.

[dave birch]

It goes further than that, Colin.

Now all those that support the English national Football team, do you send off your cheque when you can't attend the matches?

What about all those new found cricket supporters? Sent off your contribution yet? If any sport needs financial assistance it's cricket.

Then there's the Rugby, and the Netball........ and what about the tennis..... a never ending list.

On this basis, if you don't attend every single match, home and away, then you're a part time supporter deserving of the contempt of those that manage to see the Rover play in every match.

[AggyBlue]

Talking of our absent friends contributing financially to the club.

Could an overseas supporters pack be produced, sent out monthly to our fans in far flung places, paid for by subscription.

Including items such as:-

Matchday programmes, Match reports, Newsletter, badges, stickers etc

Maybe this is something BRISA could look into.

Or is there not enough overseas fans to make this option viable

[RevidgeBlue]

TND is completely accurate here.

If we do not raise the money to buy players through decent crowds then we are screwed.

The entertainment on offer at Rovers is improving but the fact of the matter is that other teams can play awfully and still get in 25k+.

If people are going to stay away for whatever reason, and that is perfectly their right, then we can expect, inevitably, to expire as a premiership force. Once the Walker money runs out it is all over. One bad manager and a relegation and that will be that as not only will we have tiny crowds but also vastly cheaper tickets than the other sides we are competing against.

It is absolutely a personal choice, but it is a personal choice that will end the club as a top flight team.

Lets just hope Hughes, his succesors and the board can put it off for as long as possible, or, somehow miraculously, BRISA can get 5k-7k extra fans in every week even if we play shocking football.

361052[/snapback]

1) Not strictly true, luckily for us TV revenues and premiership place monies currently dwarf gate receipts so we are protected from the effect of falling gates somewhat. That said a pound is a pound from whatever source it comes from.

2) Other places probably have got a population of far greater than 140,000 to rely upon. That's even without touching upon the Asian debate.

3) The Walker money will not "run out" The Trust fund is a dynamic fund for the b enefit of all the Walker businesses supplemented by profits from all the businesses. Whether or not the Trustees choose to reduce or withdraw support at any time in the future is a different matter.

4) Agree on one point relegation would be an absolute disaster the way the club is set up at present.

5) The Board have hardly been "pulling it off" in recent years as we have had a deliberate policy over the last few seasons of running at a substantial deficit and paying a wage bill of more than we can really afford in an attempt to finish in the top half of the table. All at the end of the day supported by the largesse of the Trustees. That policy goes pear shaped when your manager is spending large amounts and not producing the goods as with Souness latterly. Luckily Hughes seems to be producing the goods without having had a penny to spend in net terms.

6) BRISA is a great idea but let's get away from the notion that the missing fans are suddenly going to flock back because it has been set up. If we do get back to average gates of 25-26000 it will take several seasons of attractive, reasonably successful football to achieve. A few home grown players coming through the Academy would work wonders in that respect as well.

[stuwilky]

Talking of our absent friends contributing financially to the club.

Could an overseas supporters pack be produced, sent out monthly to our fans in far flung places, paid for by subscription.

Including items such as:-

  Matchday programmes, Match reports, Newsletter, badges, stickers etc

Maybe this is something BRISA could look into.

Or is there not enough overseas fans to make this option viable

361145[/snapback]

I think that is a cracking idea. It needn't be limited to overseas either.

[dave birch]

It is ndeed a good idea, one that should be followed up, as is promoting the club overseas.

[cletus]

stickers etc...

The offer of 'stickers' does it for me!!

[Neil Weaver]

I sent this to BRISA about a month ago but as I haven't seen an acknowledgement and time is of the essence, perhaps it would reach an audience here?

One of the subjects discussed on that Attendances topic was the importance of encouraging young spectators. The club are making efforts in that direction (http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/SchoolsIncentiveMatches/0,,10303,00.html) and maybe there is something many of us more established (OK, older!) supporters can do to help.

A couple of weeks ago it struck me that it could be that a number of the folk that scheme is aimed at - schools, teachers, pupils - might not be aware of it. So I wrote a short letter to my old Primary School (Whalley), including the article from the Rovers website, and offered to help them fund an outing to Ewood. The school would do all the organising, logistics and so on. Guess what - they hadn't heard of the offer, thought it was excellent, and will hopefully organise something for early 2006.

Now I realise some of the Ewood faithful didn't go to school in E Lancs, or might not be of a suitable age to do this sort of thing, but are there a few fellow supporters who could contact a former school in E Lancs - not necessarily with any sort of financial incentive - to make them aware of the offer by Rovers?

There's also the offer that may be more relevant to local football teams (http://www.brfccommunity.co.uk/clubs.html). Again, could we help publicise?

I know it's not rocket science, but it doesn't cost us much individually but potentially offers a good day out for kids, gets a few more into Ewood on matchdays, and might even encourage a few to become long term supporters.

[Scotty]

Sorry you didn't get an acknowledgement Neil. We've all had loads to do since the launch and I'm afraid some things have slipped through the net.

Rest assured that every item of correspondance we've received regarding attendances will be going into the melting pot when we decide what we're going to take to the club at our next meeting with them.

If we all agree that your suggestion is workable (sounds good to me) then expect to hear from us again in the future.

[Alan75]

Links to Neil Weaver's posted web pages above.

SCHOOL INCENTIVE MATCHES

BRFC COMMUNITY

[Guest Vinjay]

The Walker money will not "run out" The Trust fund is a dynamic fund for the b enefit of all the Walker businesses supplemented by profits from all the businesses. Whether or not the Trustees choose to reduce or withdraw support at any time in the future is a different matter.

BRISA is a great idea but let's get away from the notion that the missing fans are suddenly going to flock back because it has been set up. If we do get back to average gates of 25-26000 it will take several seasons of attractive, reasonably successful football to achieve.

361199[/snapback]

I thought they already had withdrawn support as unlike some I've noticed the loss of a multi million pound budget in the last few years. Of course I'm supposed to be pleased about that according to some people on here.

Average gates of 25,000-26,000 might come back when the Walkers make decent funds available. I'm not the only one who feels the club has gone backwards. Still I should be pleased about that as well perhaps?

[Claytons Left Boot]

I thought they already had withdrawn support as unlike some I've noticed the loss of a multi million pound budget in the last few years.

361563[/snapback]

So tell us then, who are the ones who haven´t noticed the loss of the budget?

[American]

Flitty, Amo, etc.

[Guest Vinjay]

I'm sure Gary's noticed more than anyone. When he joined he probably expected to be at a club that would be challenging for titles for the next several years.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Vinjay

[Lee]

1. Lower ticket prices to around £15 for adults.

2. Under 16's get in for £3-5 for unfashionable games

3. Free/Damn cheap tickets to schools

4. More publicity-Rovers as a good night out for everyone.

5. Somehow convince more Asian families to go. No ideas at this end.

6. Target areas that are not in Manchester, Liverpool catchment areas with publicity, coach services to the game etc.

These may help the situation in the long term.

360963[/snapback]

To answer each point:

1: We very rarely sell out the £15 adult tickets that are available for all Category B games. Price is not the be-all and end-all.

2: Again, all B games are £5

3: As has been mentioned we have School Incentive Scheme

4: I doubt there is a club in the Premiership that has done more promotion than us. Talking buse stops, adverts in the local paper all the time, website, emails, radio promotions on RockFM and Century, and thats just off the top of my head.

5: The fans forum used to have a representative from Asian Image magazine as a member, and there were often promotions and competitions aimed at that particular community. The club regularly has meetings with relevant people in an attempt to rectify that issue. The number of asian fans at the ground is rising, and this will certainly be helped if the number of Stewards who are Asian report back to their friends and family that Ewood Park is a thoroughly decent place to go.

6: This is precisely the reason why we play our reserve games at Morecambe, and why I was involved (before I worked for the football club) in the involvement in the North Lancs Supporters Club. They regularly run a coach from up the M6 to Ewood Park on matchdays.

There aren't THAT many areas for us to market to. As a club we have the highest percentage of supporter that lives within a five mile radius*. Something like 82%* of our fans are within BB postcodes.

* I might be slightly off on those figures, they are off the top of my head.

If Rovers did nothing to address problems, then obviously there'd be an issue, but feel free to continue (like us) to search for ideas that may help the football club in the long term.

As has been alluded to, when the transfer window comes around and fans are wondering why we've no dosh to spend, take a look at those average attendance figures.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Lee

[Dan Furness]

Its Garry.

Money is covering debts we currently have, many many clubs run in debt due to their assets. Its about time you actually thought before you post you idiot

[Guest Vinjay]

The only idiot you know is your hooligan father.

Going to the BRISA meeting tonight? Is that how you're going to respond if they disagree with you?

Yes I know perfectly well it's Garry. I believe I was typing too fast my apologies.

[Dan Furness]

HA HA HA best you can come up with. Starters you don't even know my father so keep your face out my business, unless you want it to be your business and believe me I wont back down.

Back to topic..... you know nothing of the day to day running at Rovers, actually think why were 'weeing with the willy we have' more efficiently than ever before, think back to Hodgson/Kidd, relegation, promotion, big signings, big wages

If you can post a proper answer then lets see what that mouse running on a wheel in your head can come up with

[JihadOnBurnley]

HA HA HA best you can come up with. Starters you don't even know my father so keep your face out my business, unless you want it to be your business and believe me I wont back down.

Back to topic..... you know nothing of the day to day running at Rovers, actually think why were 'weeing with the willy we have' more efficiently than ever before, think back to Hodgson/Kidd, relegation, promotion, big signings, big wages

If you can post a proper answer then lets see what that mouse running on a wheel in your head can come up with

361590[/snapback]

GO ON FURN!!!

[greggyk]

Vinjay never seems to respond to the fact what we were relegated under Jack Walker's millions.