[Archived] West Ham United V Brfc 3 - 1 Wham

[tcj_jones]

A bit late, but my sentiments are that none of the players looked up for this match. What the hell was this "a good start is vital" rubbish that the players were spouting in the media, because I certainly didn't see any will to win yesterday.

Mokoena was appauling in defence, but what lost us the game was Savage and Reid in midfield. West Ham were excellent on the break and have extremely fast midfielders and counter attacked us at every opportunity. Savage and Reid failed to break up many attacks at all, and worse, lost the ball WAY too many times for a premiership match.

The only time we looked strong was for a five minute period in the second half when Gresko was brought on and stabilised the team and for the first fifteen minutes. When we were getting the ball to Pedersen and winning free kicks / corners, we looked dangerous.

After Pedersen drifted out of the game, we had no creative outlets and Bellamy was starved of service. The ball was played in at chest or head height to him so many times and he just doesn't have the strength to trouble defenders. With Kuqi having an average match and Dickov being a very similar player to Bellamy, there was no-body for Bellamy to feed off and we didn't see any diagonal runs or anything really.

I really hope Hughes either pairs Jansen with Bellamy for our next match, because i know Jansen will really be willing to fight for his place and has the ability to win headers and feed Bellamy, or plays 4-5-1 with Mokoena, Reid and Tugay in midfield, with Jansen on his own up front.

Oh, and one last thing, when is Savage going to stop these ridiculous sliding tackles that succeed in nothing but gaining a yellow card and a free kick against us.

[Blackpool_Rover]

Drslowman, are you sure you didn't turn up at craven cottage yesterday, The only peep I heard from your lot is when you scored.

Moment of the day, savage thrown into the advertising boards by konchesky, quality.

good luck in the championship 

338976[/snapback]

I have to agree. I thought the west ham fans were excellent, i had a headache by the end it was so loud. Not that you can make out what they are singing...its just a noise, but loud.

As for the rovers singing....i dont know where you got that from drslowman. I know there were some songs comin from the back but i could hardly hear sitting at the front. I guarantee you west ham didnt hear a thing!

And LOL at savage...that was funny.

[McClarky]

It seemed to me listening to the game that it was scarily reminiscent of a few games under Souness. We were playing well until we conceded and then we fell apart. Also tactical changes led to almost immediate goals for the opposition.

I was alarmed to hear that we were over run in midfield. This was a Rovers midfield made up of 4 internationals and yet they are over run by West Ham. Does this mean that we have to play 5 in the middle or we can't cvope.

My main hope for this season was that we might play a bit of football and entertain a bit but if the first instinct is going to be to go on the defensive then it could be another long season.

As for Dickov, a disgrace. Did he have tickets booked for the Edinburgh festival and fancied a couple of weeks off on full pay or something? There is no excuse for that kind of challenge. I think that kind of thing is often confused with commitment. A player who is committed doesn't get himself sent off so needlessly and then leave the rest of the team to play with 10 for the rest of the game. Hope he gets fined.

[tcj_jones]

I have to agree. I thought the west ham fans were excellent, i had a headache by the end it was so loud. Not that you can make out what they are singing...its just a noise, but loud.

As for the rovers singing....i dont know where you got that from drslowman. I know there were some songs comin from the back but i could hardly hear sitting at the front. I guarantee you west ham didnt hear a thing!

And LOL at savage...that was funny.

339009[/snapback]

Try sitting in the West Ham centenary lower, with many of the loudest hammers fans! It's not too difficult hiding you glea when your team scores, but pretending to be jubilent when the opposition scores three times is just too much.

[bellamy11]

Not going to churn out a long match report this time because a lot of people have done a very good job. Just want to point out that the turning point was, IMO, the Savage booking. Beforehand he was throwing himself about, making West Ham uncomfortable and getting the crowd wound up. We were up for the fight and West Ham were a bit startled. His senseless booking meant that he had to be on his best behaviour from then onwards and they slowly got themselves a foothold in our midfield and went from there. By the second half, they were overpowering us in that area with ease.

Hughes did sense this and the 4-5-1 was the right call. We immediately looked better, albeit less likely to score a goal with a half-fit Bellamy on his own and lacking physical presence or decent srevice. It was the slack marking for Reo-Coker's goal which undid us because we could no longer use the 4-5-1 and had to gamble on 4-4-2 to get us another goal.

[Scotty]

Just about feel up to commenting on the game now - it was just all too depressing yesterday.

We were the better team for half an hour because we passed the ball better and were quicker into the tackle than West Ham. We unsettled them and they couldn't cope with the way we quickly pressured the ball all over the park. As a result we deservedly took the lead and could easily have gone 2 or 3 in front.

However, West Ham slowly found their feet, picked up the pace of the game, and started stringing a few passes together of their own. They finished the first half on top but 1-0 at half-time was still probably a fair reflection of what had gone on.

We were caught over-committing at the start of the second half. We lost possession deep in West Ham's half, they broke quickly, and we just didn't have enough bodies back behind the ball. All four midfielders and our right back were caught up field.

West Ham were lifted and they started to overrun us in midfield. Hughes rightly decided to address this by changing to a 4-1-4-1 formation but I thought he took the wrong player off. Kuqi was doing OK and we'd have been better off if one of our ineffective wide-men had been subbed.

The removal of Kuqi meant that we didn't have an outlet up front so we just kept giving the ball back to West Ham. This, coupled with some rank bad individual defending, resulted in us conceding another two goals and getting thoroughly outplayed. Dickov's mindless sending off just put the tin hat on an incredibly depressing second-half display.

There's little point in singling out individual players for criticism as the whole team were crap in that second half. I was particularly disappointed with our wide-men though. Emerton was at his frustrating worst and Pedersen was just awful. Bellamy didn't look fit, Kuqi did a few good things but didn't stand out, Savage and Reid started well but found themselves too far up field too often in the second half, and the whole defence were poor.

Next week's a big game now. We need to see a reaction after that display.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I wonder what Hughes is going to do to deliver on his comment, "This won't happen again."

Personally, I am of the opinion that while Hughes accepts players having bad days, he is particulalry intolerant of a lack of effort, be it physical or mental.

I thought Gray got sent to Siberia, not for having a couple of bad games, but for clearly dozing off for a couple of goals in the 0-4 at Chelsea. So it would not surprise me if Emerton was also despatched to the Gulag for a while.

I think a message has to be sent about the manager's expectations for the new season. Dickov will not suffer a similar fate as Hughes himself used to do that regularly, and I have no doubt he just sees it as a misplaced response to an appropriate leve of desire.

Lazy passes into trouble, on top of an ineffective performance, however are a different matter...

[LeChuck]

West Ham were lifted and they started to overrun us in midfield.  Hughes rightly decided to address this by changing to a 4-1-4-1 formation

339069[/snapback]

This is one thing I take issue with...I don't agree with it at all. Look at Wigan today, they coped with Chelsea's 5 man midfield despite playing a 4-4-2...it's about getting the team organised as a whole rather than appointing a babysitter to Savage and Reid.

That formation is great for keeping the ball in the defensive third of the pitch, you can get some nice triangles going with the spare man (I seem to remember us playing out the Everton game last season with similar tactics), but against West Ham we needed to find a way of getting more possesion in the attacking third...and that was completely the wrong move.

If we're going to retreat to a 4-5-1 every time someone starts getting on top of us then we're in for a disappointing (and boring) season, Hughes should have more ideas and flexibility up his sleeve than that.

[Jan]

Didn't read this as 18 pages of "oh woe is me" is more than I can stand. A few points

Bellamy was caught offside quite often. This was not because Bellamy was being stupid, but because he expected the pass to come way before it did. I watched him a lot the second half of last season, and with decent midfielders and defenders who know how to pass the ball, he's spectacular. Unfortunately we don't have any of those. Hence the offside. I'm not a footballer, but there were times when I was screaming at Pedersen to "give the f**king ball to f**cking Bellamy" much as I used to do with other players to Mr Cole. They always seem to chose the easy path, and it's never the right one.

Todd was our only credible attacking threat yesterday- how scary is that? (3 of our 4 shots on target I believe). This, and the confused individuals who are the rest of our "defence", may explain why Toddy appeared not to do well yesterday. He was, for great periods of the game, trying to play the game with only Brad for backup. IMHO the others should have been tied to the bus and made to run home.

Emerton. Are we sure HE didn't have a motorbike crash in the close season? Much as he was never very good at crossing, or passing accurately, or winning the ball, or heading the ball, now he seems to have forgotten how to play football completely. He gets the ball, the head goes down and he dribbles slowly into the nearest bunch of defenders for the other team he can find. then once the ball has gone he stands and looks at it as if to say "now what am I doing here again". If anyone offers us some magic beans for the lad we should bite their hands off. I don't care we have no-one else to play there. Being ten men would be better than having someone who is, in essence, on the opposition's side anyway.

Here's hoping for a BIG improvement against Fulham.

Edited August 14, 2005 by Jan

[krislu]

we deservedly took the lead and could easily have gone 2 or 3 in front.

339069[/snapback]

I think we had something like two clear cut chances the whole game.. And to be fair West Ham should have scored more than 3 goals, we were lucky not to be losing with 4 or 5.

[thenodrog]

Strange game..... All Rovers for the first 40 mins then WHam equally dominant for the second half.

1. Amateurish mistakes (Emertons for both 2nd and 3rd goal) gave away the goals.

2. Most worrying was the way our central defenders couldn't get anywhere near Harewood for pace nor won a header against him and the 39 year old Sheringham. They looked frighteningly vulnerable and sorry but Nelsen wont fix that on his own! It means a 4-1-4-1 more often than not again. When we reverted to that yesterday WHam hardly got a touch or at least they didn't until Emerton decided to argue with the ref over a throw-in rather than marking his man who supplied Reo-Coker for his goal which came out of the blue.

[American]

People forget that while we were safe with a few games to play, those games ended up being miserable failures (in fact, weren't 2 of them similar to yesterday?). I'm one of those that forgot, but that, combined with the first match here, makes me think that we'll be around 13-15 when all is said and done, but I also think we will be avoiding a relegation dogfight.

Then again, the year we finished 6th, I thought we were crap and not going to finish near the top 10 after the awful performance against Villa.

[wicklowrover]

First game of the season, was so excited as was being shown on Fox Sports over here in Australia, half time came and felt we were bloody lucky.

Todd had a shocker in the first half - had the job of marking Harewood and could not touch him for pace, it was only that he was uncapable of scoring in a brothel that this wasn't reflected on the scoresheet.

The other worrying thing was the tactic of play it long for bellamy to run on to was a waste of time and the opportunity to be more creative, I know Bellamy is fast but he is not that quick and it is a tactic that should be reserved for sunday league.

Kugi spent more time moaning than attempting to play soccer, and he definately deserved to be dragged off. It was not a good sign that when it went ot 1-1 that we changed our formation to 4-5-1, if this was going to happen should have been done at half time, it sent the wrong message that we were happy with the draw.

IMO the only decent performance came from MGP, whose created the majority of our chances. It is obvious we need to get a defender with pace from someone, the thought of facing Arsenal or Chelsea with that defensive performance worries me.

After this weeks performance, we desperately need Nelsen fit and another striker to come into form.

[philipl]

Three observations having seen the TV recording:

- West Ham were smart. They saw our weaknesses and gradually played to their strengths to exploit them. There seemed to be no equivalent intelligence on our side. Where was the experience and leadership from Savage/Todd.

- Savage and Reid seem to be too similar in terms of style to be effective together. All action, good runners, strong tacklers but limited otherwise. Passing from Reid was woeful and from savage very limited.

- Pedersen was very lazy when he lofted that shot over the bar. The player seems to have a problem with concentrating which is the biggest failing in his game. Bellamy also missed a sitter when we were 3-1 down. Combined with the goal line clearances, we created enough chances to have beaten W Ham even though we disintegrated.

This defeat is a huge wake up call for everybody at the club.

Edited August 15, 2005 by philipl

[John]

Very pi**ed off still!

In summary

- we looked very stretched as a team compared to last season

- kept playing hopeless through balls to Bellamy, we don't seem to have anyone who can read his runs (even though he had a quiet match)

- The Axe does not convince me as a centre back

- Savage was our best midfielder (best of a bad bunch), he needs more matches though.

I would not go over the top but it's the way in which we lost which is most annoying. Really shot ourselves in the foot with very casual defending against a very average team.

Edited August 15, 2005 by John

[roversmum]

It's reminding me a bit of last year. The players finished the 2003/4 season looking very jaded and I thought that they were bound to come back looking fitter and more up for it. But no. They looked worse if anything.

The finish to the 2004/5 season was very similar, a lack of desire and interest led to a few disappointing results - particularly galling was the loss to Fulham on the last home game.

Pre-season looked reasonably good, but Saturday's game was very worrying. A general lack of desire even for the better first half imo and then complete capitulation.

This bunch of players need a good shake-up. Sparky has improved their general fitness and game and on a good day they are equal to any Premiership team. However, playing in the Premiership needs every game to be 'on a good day', a point not lost on him - question is, can he do anything about it with the squad at his disposal?

I'm not looking forward to Saturday at all now.

[AggyBlue]

Shake up, more like a good kick up the backside. I am looking forward to saturday though and a big improvement.

[BigDom]

Oh dear....not a good start

1st it's a drop in season ticket sales and then I find out Nelsen is injured....I thought it could not get any worse....how wrong could I be !!!

I thought we made too many mistakes (even though it was the 1st game) and in this league mistakes tend not to go unpunished. The defence looked shakey without Nelsen and the usual man sat just in front. Midfield seemed overrun at times during the second half and I also think that buying 2 strikers will not end the goal drought if there is no one to feed them the crosses/passes they need to get into the danger areas to score.

On that basis, I think we could still struggle this season but I am going to remain optimistic for as long as possible

Role on Saturday !!!!

[salothsar]

We were crap and deserved to loose. But if we're going to be that bad I'd rather it be the first game of the season. If that had come on the back of a 6 or 7 game unbeaten run it would be getting passed off as an anomaly, not impending doom and relegation. There is a real need to improve in almost all areas but at least there is plenty of time to do it.

And, has been said before, the only way is up

[arealbrfcfan]

Your right though, it wont make a difference who is up front right now. We lack creativity and Savage is not able to do this it would appear. Which makes me wonder what difference Bellamy ( as much as i like him) will make rather than Stead.

I'm still looking forward to saturday. I am too loyal to do what many other people did and run away when the football aint too great.

[Ronin]

First game of the season, was hoping for the good start, but nope. Hammered on the first day of the season, will definitely give up a very big boot up the bum, and should instill a good improvement for Saturday's game, which is a must win.

Hope that Nelsen and any potential signings come in soon.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Reading the teletext last night and it stated that Bellamy is a doubt for Wales this week.

Apparently he had to have injections just prior to Saturday's game...doesn't sound too clever to me,hope the injury isn't worse than first thought because we have jack ###### else up front!!.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Emerton.  Are we sure HE didn't have a motorbike crash in the close season?  Much as he was never very good at crossing, or passing accurately, or winning the ball, or heading the ball, now he seems to have forgotten how to play football completely.  He gets the ball, the head goes down and he dribbles slowly into the nearest bunch of defenders for the other team he can find.  then once the ball has gone he stands and looks at it as if to say "now what am I doing here again".  If anyone offers us some magic beans for the lad we should bite their hands off.  I don't care we have no-one else to play there.  Being ten men would be better than having someone who is, in essence, on the opposition's side anyway.

339080[/snapback]

Close Season

What about since he has been here - take it you don't read what alot of us have been saying since he started here - theguy is plain and simply crap - which is not saying much considering the way the rest of the team played.

Puts it all into context when the hammers sneak into the Premier and demolish us, yet Charlton so easily disposed of the Champions of the Championship

Wake up and smell the coffe folks - no creativity no way forward.

[tcj_jones]

I'm very surprised to hear people say that we were the better team in the first half and shocked to hear people say that it was all Rovers.

For fifteen minutes or so we were passing quickly and tackling well, and the game was end to end and quite entertaining. However, from then on West Ham were by far the better team and should have gone into the break at atleast 1-1, maybe even 2 or 3-1 up. Their midfield was just too quick and ours was static and hopeless - how many times did one of Reid and Savage just giuve the ball away with useless passing and control?

Well, that's how I saw it atleast.

Edited August 15, 2005 by tcj_jones

[KimberleyBRFC]

As for the rovers singing....i dont know where you got that from drslowman. I know there were some songs comin from the back but i could hardly hear sitting at the front. I guarantee you west ham didnt hear a thing!

339009[/snapback]

That's typical at all away games.. us at the back make all the noise whilst the ones at the front sit looking pretty. As for West Ham fans i didn't hear much singing from them in the first half ) and i guarantee you they heard our burnley chant lol