[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[Paul]

(hello Paul  )

Hi Tris. I've certainly enjoyed my copy of The Observer for the last four weeks. I'd agree they are anti-Murdoch etc. My distaste for the gentlemen is based on four factors:

1. His stable, that I have had access to, is largely made up of pap. I'm being very calm about this, a question I have never had answered: Outside of sport name a quality production from the Murdoch Empire?

2. Titles Murdoch purchases are dragged down to the lowest common denominator resulting in a loss to serious journalism

3. I very strongly object to media attempts to manipulate and influence government. I appreciate all media are guilty, to an extent, of this action but I feel Murdoch is the worst. I would expect this to concern you Tris?

4. The UK media, in all forms, responds to the nastier side of our character. I feel the role of the media is to inform, educate and entertain - young women's breasts don't need to be included, nor does the latest antics of the Beckhams.

Back to the footy - your figures make a convincing arguement but I don't feel we can view TV in isolation to the general malaise which is growing amongst fans. As a fan I now find myself in the strange position of only being interested in Blackburn Rovers and the occassional big story. It's rare for me to watch or read anything connected with football, years back I would devour the weekend papers and make a point of watching all I could. MOTM is on the box at the moment as the kids still watch it - I haven't been in the room.

In my view TV and the media is largely responsible for this situation through over-exposure of a product. In my youth staying up on Saturday night for MOTM was a treat I had to earn. In my less than rational moments I will blame Murdoch and Sky for this. Why? because I'm still passionate about a game that I believe is being destroyed. I feel the the Sky money was the catalyst to begin this destruction. I'm trying to seperate things here - it is the Sky money not the Sky organisation. Why? Well I'm sick to death of:

1. Over paid footballers who believe they are gods

2. The media reporting of every sexual, drug related excess

3. The heavily biased media reporting of all things MU, Chelsea etc

4. The outright lies and untruths that are reported

5. The pathetic, childish actions of those who should set the standard. For example the recent MU/Arsenal thing. Here we have intelligent men (e.g. Ferguson and Wenger) reducing themselves to gutter level by their scholl boy reractions. I've lost all respect for anyone associated with those clubs. Much as I admire their football I hope they win nothing.

Ultimately you can trace all of this back to one thing - money. It's true money and real professionalism was desperatley needed by the game when Sky came along. The problem is we only got the money and a mask of professionalism.

Do I make more sense now? I object to Murdoch on a political and intellectual level; Sky TV on a general quality issue; Sky money because it has been used so badly and is ultimately going to destroy the game.

It coud have been anyone's money.

This week my reaction to the Spain/England thing was to shrug my shoulders and think so what. I'm saddened to find myself ignoring (and therefore condoning? ) racism. When I analyse this, and I truely hope I'm right, I feel my reaction is against the hysterical outcry in the UK media. This was not our problem yet the papers devote pages to it, Five Live even ran a phone-in for pity's sake, the Prime Mimister gets involed. All to whip an environment for every English fan to wallow in self-righteous indignation at the appalling behaviour of the Spanish. Yet some of those same fans will happily spend two weeks in the Costa del sex/drugs/drink behaving in a manner that makes me ashamed to be English.

Do I make sense and do you understand a little of why Im and I think thousands of others, are beginning to turn away from the game we love?

[Paul]

I think it was blue phil who posted on the lines of "if it wasn't for the kids I'm not sure I'd go".

I'm in the same situation, I shall continue to go because I don't want to disappoint the kids. If it was just me? Well I'm not sure. The day of the City game was beautiful here, in the morning I found myself wishing I wasn't going to the game because it was beautiful day for cycling.

[jim mk2]

The day of the City game was beautiful here, in the morning I found myself wishing I wasn't going to the game because it was beautiful day for cycling.

Perhaps you're just getting older ? It happens to us all eventually !

I've long held the view that television will ultimately destroy football. Familiarity breeds contempt (who needs Sky anyway ? - there is so much football on terrestrial TV to satisfy even the most ardent fan) and that is certainly the case now. I rarely watch a live game and only Match of the Day when Rovers have drawn or won (I can't bear to watch defeats).

Anyone remember snooker ? The whole country was glued to the box 20 years ago when Steve Davis et al were in their pomp but, again, overexposure, too many televised tournaments, killed interest. In all honesty, who watches snooker on TV now apart from housebound old folks ? And who's interested anyway ?

My feeling is that Premiership crowds outside the top few clubs may have peaked last season and that there will be a gentle decline in average attendances. I say the top three or four because Arsenal, Chelsea, ManU and Liverpool are all in the process of or planning to increase capacity at their grounds. More money and more power to them: a depressing thought.

In my view it is not acceptable for people to shrug their shoulders and say that lower crowds are OK as long as the TV money keeps rolling in and clubs are profitable. In the long term the game will suffer as fans get out of the habit of watching football live.

There is a ray of hope though. Italy and Russia, to name two, are suffering severe drops in crowd numbers and Uefa is finally waking up to the fact that the Champions League, television money, the G14 junta is distorting the balance of power in European football and that middle-sized and smaller clubs, international football and the game itself is suffering. Whether they will actually take decisive action is another matter.

[American]

Jim, while the other leagues might be suffering from drops, the Bundesliga has higher attendances. All at the time where their clubs make more than most off of Champs League TV money. Why? They have lowered the prices for matches, with some seats as low as 5 euro, and not just on days where they think attendance will be low.

[Paul]

The day of the City game was beautiful here, in the morning I found myself wishing I wasn't going to the game because it was beautiful day for cycling.

Perhaps you're just getting older ? It happens to us all eventually !

Probably true jim.......anyway it's time to wrap up, get out into the cold, wet, Lancashire afternoon and head down to Ewood.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

No real increase in the crowd today even with the cheap tickets,its plainly a catch 22 situation...unless the team is winning and winning well it would appear the floating supporter will not come full stop.

[waggy]

20,290 is a lot better than i thought,brum brought 500 tops so we had 19.5k home fans,we should do the same for the spuds game,better opposition,bigger away following and more time to talk folk round

[92er]

There were certainly people there who don't go regularly.

[billy]

Wrong day, wrong time, lousy opposition, lousy weather, on T.V. and still 19.500 rovers supporters are there, I think the ticket scheme worked O.K. now try it for the next game, with the publicity starting now.

[Hughesy]

I know a few people who went that dont usually and i think overall the scheme was a success.

The game was on tv, the weather was awful and we are bottom of the league. Yet we still had around 19,000 - 19,500 fans there.

[Paul]

Dark Sky ahead

Initially I was very against the idea of 5.15pm kick offs but after two in a row my view has changed. I appreciate this isn't good for the travelling fan, home or away, but I like having the whole day in front of me and footie. In our household Saturdays are busy and most things come to a grinding halt at 1.00pm as we start to get ready for the game. The late kick off makes a big difference to the day and I actually prefer this to a 3.00pm KO.

On the attendance debate, a conversation I had with a club insider suggests it is NOT just Rovers who are struggling to sell seats. Apparently even the top three are finding this increasingly difficult, although their problems are masked to some extent by their crowd size and perhaps also because there is strong demand from casual fans who have not been able to purchase tickets in the past.

[blue phil]

The late kick off makes a big difference to the day and I actually prefer this to a 3.00pm KO.

On the attendance debate, a conversation I had with a club insider suggests it is NOT just Rovers who are struggling to sell seats.

Paul , that is a near blasphemous comment The thing is ,these staggered times , as Ferguson states in your quoted article , are turning people off the game . Away fans don't know whether they're coming or going and the temptation is always going to be to just watch the match on the box - ironic , really , as it's the TV which is causing the match to be moved from its holy slot of 3pm in the first place .

The implications of fewer away fans travelling are more relevant to the Rovers than most other clubs.

As I've said before , the market will eventually decide . If TV continues to show as many games , and at silly times , then ticket prices will have to fall if grounds are going to be filled . Nobody wants to watch a game on the box being played to an empty ground. This could even benefit the Rovers in the long run if not the short.

[Paul]

Paul , that is a near blasphemous comment

Quite agree phil and I've been vociferous in my opposition to anything other than a 3.00pm Saturday. just thought I'd better own up about quite liking the 5.15 ones. Not keen on any other times though and I agree with all you say.

[ABBEY]

i hate 5.15 ko's me belly was rumbling like mad.

[bellamy11]

I don't know why, but I always seem to enjoy night matches a lot more than ones during the daylight. Some of my favourite matches at Ewood were played at night.

The 5.15 isn't traditional but it's a makable game. Much better than 12.45 in bloody Fulham.

[Alan75]

If TV continues to show as many games , and at silly times , then ticket prices will have to fall if grounds are going to be filled . Nobody wants to watch a game on the box being played to an empty ground.

There is allready a decline in tv viewers, people are tuning off to sky and more and more are signing up to the freeview digital service.

Media Report. Freeview v Sky

[Scotty]

This article states that the next TV deal isn't going to be worth anywhere near as much to the clubs as the current one.

Observer article

Finally, it looks like the Premiership clubs are going to have to look at cutting their wage bills in order to survive.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Not good news for Rovers who rely heavily on the tv coin I'm afraid.

Can see some forced cost cutting/rectructuring of the club and not all for the best.

[jim mk2]

Not good news for Rovers who rely heavily on the tv coin I'm afraid.

Can see some forced cost cutting/rectructuring of the club and not all for the best.

Looking at the team photo, I'd say there's plenty of fat to be cut out.

As well as goalkeeping/forwards/defensive coaches, do we also need coaches to tie up their bootlaces, blow their noses and wipe the poor luvvies' bottoms as well ?

And the squad is too large: do we really need nine (mediocre) defenders ?

I think not.

[BRFC4EVA]

I think our crowds have been very strange this season. We seem to have more Rovers fans at the games vs pompey and spurs rather than l'pool or united. Considering the crowds vs l'pool and united were 26k but there was 8K away fans that leaves 18,000 rovers fans. However, vs pompey the crowd was 20,500 and there was nowhere near 2,500 away fans, so that means more rovers fans turn up to pompey game rather then the big 2?! Same applies to spurs as the crowd was 22,000. Again around 2,000 away fans so there was 20k Rovers in the crowd, compared to only 18k vs l'pool or manure. Very weird imo.

[waggy]

i think the poor gates against utd and liverpoo were due to the poor displays and the liverpoo game was on sky,they were cat a games as well.the spuds game more home fans turned out due to an upturn in form and cheaper prices/were they cheaper?the everton game could be our highest gate off the season,if we beat palace and everton are given the whole off the darwen end,on what is traditionally a day for poor gates/the last saturday before xmas.

[Paul]

They really are taking the p1ss. Enquired about tickets for the Bolton game for our family of five:

Four Adults (over 16) plus one under 16

Bolton Wanderers v Blackburn Rovers £159 + £2 booking fee = £161 - 90 minutes football

For roughly the same money a family of five can:

EuroDisney £140 – 12 hours

Scrooge The Musical Manchester £67.50 – 2.5 hours

Sainsbury – weeks family shop £120 and £40 left to take the kids out to the cinema, bowling and a burger

Liverpool – Barcleona for Mr and Mrs Paul - £80 return total. Hotels?? £120 plus spendies £50– 3 days £250

Household Gas and Electric for month - £76 – one game of footie or two months heat, light, hot water?

Christmas booze – 2 x bottle malt (£40ish) 40 bottles Stella (£20) Case of wine (£80) Total £140 change for a half decent bottle of champagne

I really do think I've had enough

[Paul]

That's a comment on the PL not Rovers

[Alan75]

I think the penny has dropped for a lot of people Paul.

Especially when they see the salaries that even the average premier league players are picking up.

[waggy]

there is no one more committed to rovers than me and junior but i have reached cut off point this season,fanatics like the lads who went too palace yesterday and paid £35 must be either mad or dedicated,i think the former being the case except for jordan[whats happened to him]and scotty.

took junior in town yesterday,and for £60 he bought his xmas presents for 10 relative's,makes you think!i love going to bolton but we will not be there this season,even at xmas i refuse to pay them prices.football has a price on it,if me and junior can get to the game for £40 we will buy the tickets and go,otherwise radio lancs and the chatroom will do