[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[mhead]

Out of 16 suggestions only the Lancs United got sledged.

Agree with 1864 and Savage and Bellamy are a way forward.

Its my memory that says how much certain players used to do around the Town e.g. Parkes,Garner,Colin,Dunny.Thats all missing now and will be until 2009 when Big Col comes back as Manager(unless he cocks it at Pool or the next club)

Meanwhile there is now only 24 hours 29 minutes to the closure of Transfer Window.Hope John W. is still working.

[jim mk2]

Leicester Tigers Rugby Union club recently attracted a crowd of 12,000 for a RESERVE team match.

The first team is a 17,000 sell out for every game and the club are going to leave Welford Road and share the 32,000-capacity Walkers Stadium with Leicester City to accommodate growth.

We all know rugby union is a crap sport compared with football, so how do they do it ?

This article explains how and makes for a fascinating read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...1456550,00.html

To me, the best quote from the article is this one:

"Twenty to 30 years ago, the club gave season tickets to children at rugby-playing schools. Those children are now the core of our loyal support,” Sam Rossiter-Stead, the club’s communications and marketing manager, said

[Billinge End Blue]

<The traditional so called working class fans will stick with what they know ( yes - the loyal hard core ) but the middle class who even in this area are now a large majority which is steadily growing are not so loyal.> - From Tashor.

The working (or non-working) class fan has already been discouraged from attending Ewood on price, particularly as a live footie fix is so easily available via TV, now in direct competition with nearly all Rovers matches. The more recent Premier League audience (used advisedly) - middle-class, glory hunters, women, young children – definitely tend to be much more fickle and choosy as to where their leisure pound is spent.

Yesterday - a lovely clear day, perfect for watching football - the fair-weather fan was almost certainly also discouraged by the fiver price hike on the day. Perhaps the difference between fifteen and twenty quid is insignificant to many but it is almost certainly enough to act as another disincentive to the armchair/barstool brigade.

For every additional fan Craig Bellamy in a Blue n White shirt would attract to Ewood Park, a similar number ( those repelled by the tarnished image of the greedy, spoilt modern professional football player, Bentleys and all) would likely be lost.

The recent marketing of football has sanitized the match-day experience to such an extent that, win or lose, the event itself is increasingly diminished. With the 15 – 25 year old young male fan constituting a reducing percentage of the total crowd, things are going to get worse.

As a teenager, I remember standing on the Blackburn End terrace and the singing,pushing and jostling was akin (admittedly not ALL the time!) to a Clash or Jam gig at King Georges Hall. Even though attending Ewood Park these days with my daughter in more sedate (literally) surroundings would preclude such fun, I wish the Blackburn End was still like this…

Nobody seems bothered by what has been lost nowadays; not all change has been for the better (queue moans about past poor facilities, urine on the terraces etc). The baby has definitely been hurled out with the bath-water.

[Manchester Blue]

I'm afraid "use it or lose it" doesn't wash with me. I earn my living trying to sell products, the next time a customer won't buy do I tell him "to use it or lose it". In business it's often very difficult to see what is wrong with your product because it is YOUR product. On Friday, and I'm repeating myself, it was suggested the club can't see the problem is on the pitch because they are paid to to watch it. This wasn't my insight but I think it could be very, very close to the mark.

There in lies the problem once again though. As much as football clubs have to run themselves like a business the sport itself is not one. Crikey if it was it would have gone bust long since. You just can't draw parallels. In any business most of the behaviour of players would not be tolerated and they would be sacked. In many other businesses if you feel the product is not up to scratch you get your money back, in football it's almost expected that you will be let down.

[Paul]

Agreed MB it is very difficult to draw parallels between football and "normal" business. What you say is very true. Player misbehaviour would not be tolerated in any other industry - you have to wonder why it is in football? The only parallel I'm trying to draw, because I believe this to be very true, is between the product and the customer base. In these two, very closely connecte areas, we can draw comparisons with other industries.

As a general rule producers are selling into an ageing market. There are fewer young people, who have more money in their late 20s/30s and broader horizons; for them Ewood or any other PL ground on a wet Wednesday is not very attractive. I think all the basic rules of marketing apply to football and the number one and two rules are: Understand your customer's wants/needs and how your product can uniquely satisfies those wants/needs.

I haven't had time to read jim's link from Leicester Tigers but "Twenty to 30 years ago, the club gave season tickets to children at rugby-playing schools. Those children are now the core of our loyal support,” says everything. I've bored people with it before but my kids all had to be turned away from Utd to support Rovers. It worked, sure I think they will leave Lancashire and not be regulars at Ewood but they will always be Rovers. Now we are not talking baout the entire population leaving Lancashire so if you grab enough while they are young enough the fan base will be there in 20 years. The seats are empty now so what diffrence does it make.

Perhaps make it free for all games except the obvious ones and include a voucher guaranteeing priority when the big boys come to town?

[stuwilky]

The seats are empty now so what diffrence does it make.

This is the key Paul. We have between 5 and 10 THOUSAND empty seats for every game held at the theatre of dreams.

If we are going to have that we might as well have a few screaming kids in there, they will enjoy it. And perhaps in years to come become our most partisal and vocal supporters.

Hows about for a few games a season those empty seats at the top of the darwen end could be utilised - wouldnt it be nice to have some home fans up there? £5 for adults and £1 for kids?

We are all full of ideas between us but for some reason the club either havn't cottoned on or for whatever reason think it isnt worthwhile.

[thenodrog]

You may have heard it all before thenodrog but what you fail to acknowledge is the world has changed...............

.............. Garner, Sellars, Barker, Gennoe, Patterson, Price, Keeley, Beamish, Mail, Miller, Reid, Brotherstone, Fazackerley, Hamilton, Rathbone, Parkes, Branagan, Wagstaffe, etc. I deliberatley ignored many from the 90s. Maybe not one could make a mark in the PL but I know one thing - they at least appeared to care for or respect our club. We don't have a single recent arrival at Ewood who has demonstrated an ounce of passion for Rovers. It was more fun sitting in Nuttall Street or standing in the enclosure because you could at least believe it mattered to the players.

Not one of them would have stayed if a top club had come in for them. We were their comfort zone. Their loyalty was largely down to necessity.

Paul you keep banging on about comparisons with business but in this instance you are letting your Prem League heart run your 2nd div head. Talk to most 'Big' club supporters and I'd wager that loyalty from players doesn't figure that highly. The majority with even half a brain will have always known that their players have only come for the money ever since 1963 and the abolishment of the max wage. I dont want loyalty from players and anybody who does is looking for fools gold. I just want professionalism, ability and passion from our players.

When KMD , AS , Sutty, et al all turned up we were paying them then what we felt were considered ridiculous salaries BUT we had far more supporters going in those days. Unfortunately you are right that the newness has worn off, the emphasis of our place in the Prem has changed and thats why we must move with the times. And like it or not (and abbey can carry his piles around in a skip for all I am concerned) we must raise our fan base. Winning the Prem didn't achieve that effect in the long term so use your 'business acumen' for a minute and you must realise that as we cannot move the town so by any means necessary we must eliminate choice.

[Mike Graham]

There is a general misconception on this MB that if we offerered cheap or free tickets that members of the public would actually want them. I have tried to loan my very decent JW ST's out on a number of occasions, as have my friends; the general response is that "I wouldn't even go and watch that s**t for nought". The problem is we play garbage and we can't even give tickets away.

Yes it is a chicken and egg situation but the simple answer of free/cheap tickets = bums on seats does not work. Indeed it could have the opposite effect and turn people off for life if exposed to the lack of quality at Ewood.

[thenodrog]

There is a general misconception on this MB that if we offerered cheap or free tickets that members of the public would actually want them. I have tried to loan my very decent JW ST's out on a number of occasions, as have my friends; the general response is that "I wouldn't even go and watch that s**t for nought". The problem is we play garbage and we can't even give tickets away.

Yes it is a chicken and egg situation but the simple answer of free/cheap tickets = bums on seats does not work. Indeed it could have the opposite effect and turn people off for life if exposed to the lack of quality at Ewood.

Relative lack of qualty? I can rem far far worse! Trouble is that in the last decade we have been spoiled in a way that the fans of other teams similar in stature to ourselves have not.

[den]

There is a general misconception on this MB that if we offerered cheap or free tickets that members of the public would actually want them.  I have tried to loan my very decent JW ST's out on a number of occasions, as have my friends;  the general response is that "I wouldn't even go and watch that s**t for nought".  The problem is we play garbage and we can't even give tickets away.

Yes it is a chicken and egg situation but the simple answer of free/cheap tickets = bums on seats does not work.  Indeed it could have the opposite effect and turn people off for life if exposed to the lack of quality at Ewood.

Relative lack of qualty? I can rem far far worse! Trouble is that in the last decade we have been spoiled in a way that the fans of other teams similar in stature to ourselves have not.

Theno, you don't seem able to accept that the last two seasons have been absolutely dire.

I struggle to remember a game which could be called entertaining.

[krislu]

I struggle to remember a game which could be called entertaining.

3-3 Birmingham against Birmingham two months ago...

[den]

I struggle to remember a game which could be called entertaining.

3-3 Birmingham against Birmingham two months ago...

One.

[Eddie]

1-1 Manchester United Game

[den]

Two. 70 odd to go.

[bellamy11]

2-2 at home to Liverpool.

[Eddie]

3-4 Bolton last year

4-3 Fulham

[den]

Three. Still 70 odd to go.

[coffeeman]

3-3 Birmingham against Birmingham two months ago...

What?

Didn't Brum think any of the clubs were big enough to play against, so the only option they had to play a big game was against themselves?

I missed that one

[CAPT KAYOS]

1-1 Manchester United Game

Wouldn't say that was entertaining - they battered us for most of the match

[bellamy11]

1-1 Manchester United Game

Wouldn't say that was entertaining - they battered us for most of the match

I thought it was terrifically gripping watching us hang on in the face of an onslaught.

Maybe "entertaining" is the wrong word, but very very dramatic, which is also a good thing.

[Eddie]

I certainly greatly enjoyed the game, and had it not been for saha's attempts to make the french national volleyball team at the end I think we would all have enjoyed it even more.

[Blue blood]

Have to agree with Paul. The football on show has not been exciting for a long time. Even the two league home wins we've had this season have been pretty dire 1-0 affairs and very scrappy. Last season I didn't see a single Rovers win despite going to over half the home games and a couple away. For the average none ST holder to see that it's pretty likely that they're going to have second thoughts about going. This is where attractive football, heros, players who look as if they care and atmosphere all play a big part in retaining support.

Another factor which IMO has an effect is the increased number of 18 - 22 year olds at Uni. I know quite a few people who used to be ST holders for various clubs but now they've moved away to university, it's too impractical to see their team and the costs in time and money are too high. Maybe between terms Rovers could make more of an effort to attract returning Uni students.

Overall though Rovers need to shape up more on the pitch. With any other product if it isn't good enough you change it or stop using it. Football is slightly different but the principle is the same, if you don't produce a satisfactory service people aren't going to come. Yes, football is a chancy form of entertainment, there is always a chance you'll get laced but if there's a good chance you'll win a few games too then people will be willing to take the 'risk'. Sadly Rovers haven't been doing this for a while.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

£1,£5,£10 tickets !!...........Where the hell is the revenue going to come from to sustian top flight football when the JW money runs dry?

Have some of you learnt nothing,people are reluctant to come to Ewood even when the prices are lowered ffs!

There goes good old Rover, round and round he goes chasing his tail going nowhere......

Some of you arrogantly state you want to see 'exciting football' at Ewood with 'top class players' but then you moan about the prices?,the club cannot afford these players anymore without backing from the Blackburn public.....our benefactor/sugar daddy sadly passed away some time ago now you know.

Its a no win situation I'm afraid to say

Edited January 31, 2005 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Flopsy]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/sto...1401645,00.html

Interesting

[mhead]

The Burnley match should certainly kick-start interest , even of the Inter-East Lancs nature.

The acid test would be if there was a replay - could we sell all our tickets?