[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[Paul]

Contrast this with Phil Gartside, Bolton chairman, live on Five Live an hour back. Confronted with a Leeds fan talking about football crowds in general and citing:

Player arrogance

Facilities

Price

Lack of competitiveness

Over exposure

Gartside responded with the usual "good entertainment, competitive pricing compared to the rest of the PL, good facilities, good food etc" at Bolton Wanderers! and went on to say "maybe my good friend Ken Bates is charging you a bit more than Bolton"

After reading Murray's comments I felt quite encouraged, listening to Gartside I felt there is no hope of change. Very interesting all the fans who called in, except the scouser, cited all the points we made. Even the Sun journalist was making sense on the lack of competitiveness etc.

One thing is clear - the PL don't need to research this, the answers are all here.

[SamDingle]

Football is dead and I'm not even bothered.

[den]

Football is dead and I'm not even bothered.

347112[/snapback]

I'd be interested on what the take on this, is down at Turf Moor Sam.

Same kind of feelings as rovers fans?

[Roaming Rover]

Got this from a ex Man U fan who now follows FC United of Manchester:

I think the lack of any connection to your team and players, especially in the premiership is driving fans to watch lower league / non league football.

Love the last line though

And so it came to pass.

What started in August 1976 (a 2-2 draw against Birmingham) ended on

September 10th 2005 - fittingly with the Manchester derby. I have given up

my season ticket, I will not be following Manchester United. Instead, I

will go and watch FC United Of Manchester on a regular basis.

On Saturday, Joey Barton tapped in from a few yards to equalise and the Blue

corner went crazy. Reds around me ranted and raved - and I felt absolutely

nothing. Deep in my heart, I felt nothing. I have stopped caring and it is

time to move on.

The decision is a big one, but makes me feel like weight has been lifted. I

have not enjoyed watching United, or being associated with what United stand

for over the last 5 years. I have no connection with the club or the

players, in a way that I used to. And in the last 18 months, they have

become dull and one-dimensional - obsessed with 4-3-3 and then hoping Rooney or Ronaldo can sprinkle some magic dust. I don't hate the club (I am not

really bothered that rich Irish people and a couple of investment banks have

sold their shares to rich American people), but I have no connection.

Amongst many things, I cannot relate to Rio Ferdinand, who is banned for 8 months and the haggles an extra £20K a week "image rights" on top of his £100K week salary. What image is that, then? Part of my United heart was lost when Eric Cantona left, one of my great sporting heroes who understood the power of the bond with the fans - and left partly because United had tried to milk him dry through the medium of MUTV. In truth, I am bored by the Premiership, and Abramovich, and the 'unloved' Gerrard, and the only interesting bit being the last-day relegation battle.

I also have a young son, and any time spent away form him needs to be

enjoyable and worthwhile - and United has been neither of these things. The

best 3 matches I have seen recently have been the only 3 I have seen at FC

United. I have had a great time with MUFC (including 8 championships and

nine FA Cups) and have a death-bed memory of being there that night in

Barcelona. (In truth, I knew in Barcelona airport whilst we waited for the

delayed plane, that I would never experience another MUFC moment like it)

And so, I will look for United's scores and may watch them if they are on TV

(in my non-Sky TV world). But if anyone asks - I support FC United of

Manchester - a team so small, as to not trouble your world at all.

On Saturday morning, the morning of the Derby, I got a package delivered by

the postman. It was my brand new FC United shirt - one of the first batch

ever produced. It cost £20-odd quid and the material is cheap and nasty.

It contains no sponsors names and just has the club badge on it.

I tried it on and it fit me perfectly.

[cletus]

Is it not time for F.C Rovers of Blackburn

[CAPT KAYOS]

Good post RR- and words to the effect that Paul (primarily amongst others) has been reflecting upon over the last year or so.

Nearly reads word for word how I feel as well (including the young son) and probably could be reflected on many a fan.

Doubt I would go watching elsewhere though unless it related to watching my youngster as he gets older, which will probably more than likely happen - but then again Football will probably have died by then so it would probably be for something else.

This honestly does bring tears to my eyes

thenodrog Posted Today, 09:42

  BUT anyway fair play for reacting to 1500 less ST's by writing to the punters involved........ Have our lot done that?

Lee Posted Today, 09:44

  yes

So how many Lee - because people I know have not had any letters?

[SamDingle]

I'd be interested on what the take on this, is down at Turf Moor Sam.

Same kind of feelings as rovers fans?

347114[/snapback]

Yup. Pretty much the same as on here. The prices, no atmosphere, defensive tactics adopted by all, life bans for swearing, Sky TV etc. It p***ed me off for a couple of seasons but now I've largely given up on it. I'll come back regularly when all the 'Nick Hornby' fans have gone back to Marks and Spencers on a Saturday afternoon, when the seats have been replaced with terraces and when it costs less to get on the Turf than fly to Rome and back.

Being a loyal fan seems to be reliant on a healthy disposable income these days. Well I dont remember seeing many of these prawn sandwich munchers who fill our grounds today getting on the bus to Brighton at six in the morning on Boxing Day ten years ago. But now, after spending £23 for a seat, I must watch my language so as not to upset them.

Well f*** 'em.

[1864roverite]

There is no point in giving in.

Football has priced almost every hardworking supporter out of the game.

Lets look at the recent facts, manure and chelsea cant even sell out for a game they would have sold twice over 2 years ago, the wages have spiralled, the cost of putting on a home match has spiralled and it really is unbelieveable just how much it costs for a day out at football.

just a quick summary

3 pints (drivers !) £5

ticket £23 (adult) £8-£15 (junior/oap)

programme £2.50

Pie and hot drink £4.50

says it all when you consider that just an adult is £40-£42 for a Saturday afternoon.

away game on your own add approximately a further £35 and you fast approach £100 for a day out.

JWilliams is right, football across the board has to adopt a strategy to keep the supporters coming through the gates.

I dont see any reason why the Premiership comittee cannot look into knocking at least 30% off the price of a match ticket, I dont see how they cannot look into a standard fee throughout the league for football fans.

Their could easily be a tiered pricing system

behind the goal £23-£25

main stand upper £25

main stand lower £25

It should be the same for every single supporter.

I certainly cannot see any justification for chelsea charging double prices for away fans or even charging £45 for a home ticket. It is purely scandalous and a rip off.

its time to take action or football is a dead duck

[CAPT KAYOS]

There is no point in giving in.

Football has priced almost every hardworking supporter out of the game.

Their could easily be a tiered pricing system

behind the goal  £23-£25

main stand upper £25

main stand lower £25

It should be the same for every single supporter.

347142[/snapback]

Agree 1864, but I still feel anything above £20 is too much for a game of football of 90 mins

Think it was either Den or Paul but £10 -£15 should be the max

[Paul]

It was me. I feel it's about perceived value, the product is widely available in countless different forms, consequently it's perceived value is plummeting like a stone. The average cost for our family, four STs, is £12.50 per game, it isn't worth much more than that....and if I really thought about it I'd say a game should not be more than £10 for adults and £5 for kids. If asked to stump up £30 on a Saturday, I simply wouldn't. I will not travel away because I refuse to pay those prices.

Too many people have taken a living out of football, press, radio, TV, agents, players, sponsors, shirt manufacturers. Everyone of them has devalued the game by contributing to it's over-exposure and their ever-increasing demand for money has fuelled the problem. Now the paying customer is saying "ENOUGH" - if the clubs don't react very quickly, like NOW, it will be too late. Where is the value in £30 for a ticket to watch Wayne Rooney? I'm asked to line the pockets of ignorant, uneducated teenagers who don't know how to behave. I simply won't. This is what is destroying the game. Players like Rooney aren't worth tuppence to football. If Bellamy doesn't perform in the first month I shall have much the same to say about him. Clint Eastwood's immortal line springs to mind - "Don't pi55 on my back and tell me it's raining"

Now interestingly I am ready and waiting to go to Wigan. Not even considering what it will cost. Why? Simple. It's unique. First visit in the PL, holiday time, local derby, crowd should be bouncing, Dave Whelan etc. etc. Wigan will be a bloody good day out. Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge, I'm just not interested, you blew it sometime ago with your arrogance and belief the fans would pay anything to watch their team. So I'll pay for something special, but give us the same old tat and I'll give you a tenner, tops. Football was once unique. if you really wanted to see your team, Liverpool, Utd whoever, you had to go to the ground. Now you can experience the whole thing with a better, comfier view plus surround sound on your home-cinema set up while enjoying a couple of beers.

[tonygreenbank]

Football is rapidly becoming a Television Sport. Why pay £40 when you can watch the match for a fiver? The Champions League is being rumbled now as shown by the empty seats last night at Chelsea who were charging £48 for a child!! Andy Gray was criticising our support at Bolton but I enjoyed the game from the comfort of my armchair with a bottle of Merlot to boot.

Sky`s Football First gives you 50 minutes of highlights and since the ball is in play at a normal game for around 70 minutes you are not missing much. I cant agree that football is dead yet but there is need for a Full Body scan fairly soon to see if remedial treatment is necessary.

[waggy]

the great brian clough once stated supporters would be let into football grounds for nothing,because tv would kill football as we knew it.this time has arrived no matter how good the game is,empty seats spoil the viewing

[Lee]

Good post RR- and words to the effect that Paul (primarily amongst others) has been reflecting upon over the last year or so.

Nearly reads word for word how I feel as well (including the young son) and probably could be reflected on many a fan.

Doubt I would go watching elsewhere though unless it related to watching my youngster as he gets older, which will probably more than likely happen - but then again Football will probably have died by then so it would probably be for something else.

This honestly does bring tears to my eyes

So how many Lee - because people I know have not had any letters?

347124[/snapback]

As far as I know there were phone calls made.

[USABlue]

Yup. Pretty much the same as on here. The prices, no atmosphere, defensive tactics adopted by all, life bans for swearing, Sky TV etc. It p***ed me off for a couple of seasons but now I've largely given up on it. I'll come back regularly when all the 'Nick Hornby' fans have gone back to Marks and Spencers on a Saturday afternoon, when the seats have been replaced with terraces and when it costs less to get on the Turf than fly to Rome and back.

Being a loyal fan seems to be reliant on a healthy disposable income these days. Well I dont remember seeing many of these prawn sandwich munchers who fill our grounds today getting on the bus to Brighton at six in the morning on Boxing Day ten years ago. But now, after spending £23 for a seat, I must watch my language so as not to upset them.

Well f*** 'em.

347139[/snapback]

Perhaps your best post ever Sam.

[Claytons Left Boot]

The extract from the United fan is superb.

I very rarely watch Rovers away these days mainly due to the cost factor. None of my mates do either. Gone are the days when we used to hire a mini bus or at least get two or three cars together to set off to an away game, pick a pub, have a few beers, pub grub and a few games of snooker.

Last season I watched Stanley away at Oldham in the cup and at Northwich in the league. I don't support them in any particular way, just a mate of mine has a connection with them. Cheap tickets, turned up just 15 mins or so before kick off, stood or sat where we wanted, had a bit of banter with the directors/players. Surprisingly good followings from Stanley also, producing a great atmosphere at each game, especially Oldham.

Like Rovers of old.

[blue phil]

the great brian clough once stated supporters would be let into football grounds for nothing,because tv would kill football as we knew it.this time has arrived no matter how good the game is,empty seats spoil the viewing

347165[/snapback]

That's correct . Apart from the top few clubs who have a chance of winning something there will be a downward spiral in attendances that will only be stopped by slashing prices . Even Sky can't exist on a few big clashes a season with absolutely no interest in mid table games .

Gate prices will fall eventually - especially when the big clubs leave the prem (or are told to leave ) by those other clubs who will no longer tolerate their greed . They are not as powerful as they - and many other clubs - seem to think. IMO they are perfectly expendable and the sooner they are put into line the better .

Edited September 15, 2005 by blue phil

[thenodrog]

Well I dont remember seeing many of these prawn sandwich munchers who fill our grounds today

347139[/snapback]

Good post Sam but 'Prawn sandwiches' in Burnley? You're having a laff!

[philipl]

What do you think they use earwigs and pink paint for in Burnley 'drog?

Edited September 15, 2005 by philipl

[thenodrog]

It seems people on here are inevitably coming around to my way of thinking. To solve the present malaise and apathy I've advocated the following at various times in the past......

1. Boycotting Chelsea away. In the hope that the move will spread to other clubs visiting Stamford Bridge and serve as a warning to the Prem, the FA, Sky, the entire media, UEFA and Uncle Tom Cobley and all. It might hopefully result in Abromovich sacking the odious Peter Kenyon too.

2. Levelling the playing field somewhat (as in the World Cup) by 'Handicapping' teams and allowing only 22 pro players on the books (other than under 20's home-grown talent plucked from within 25 miles of the club). Thereby equalizing the quality of squads in the Prem Division to some extent. As it is the top teams have top quality players in their squads who would walk into other teams but who rarely see any action and would serve the game and spectators better by playing for another team.

Also Horse racing and Formula 1 find handicapping necessary to keep the sport interesting to the punters.

3. Reducing the number of pro teams in the country and particularly in this area. There are simply not enough fans of any one club in this area to provide the finances required to support one a top team.

4. Do something about the stupid disciplinary situation. Sure keep the red card for extreme stuff but for christs sake rem that red cards actually spoil games for the spectators! I cannot believe that no one at the FA has considered the average fan spending his £100 on an away day only to have it spoilt by an over zealous linesman / ref or by a mistimed tackle being punished overly hard because of crowd reaction. Whether there should be a 'sin-bin' card (blue) or a 'replace this player with a sub before I send him off proper' green card, I dunno but its a thought. Nobody could have whinged if Neill had been given a 'green' v Spurs could they? How about Rooney getting one too? and a 'blue' would have been perfect for the clot in Belfast.

The above may be viewed as a right load of brollox but as football is in a downward spiral and if we (and the authorities) want something different to happen the we (and the authorities) need to do something different!

[philipl]

Delia is doing her bit for keeping Norwich ticket prices low by publishing a book of recipes collected from the 92 League grounds.

Sam Dingle submitted a Prawn sandwich:

1) Sweep under wooden seats at t'Turf

2) Get Groundsman to bring left over line marking paint

3) Add Ketchup scrounged from McDonalds

4) Dunk earwigs from sweepings

5) Spread on mother's Pride

Dead sophisticated them dingles...

[FourLaneBlue]

It seems people on here are inevitably coming around to my way of thinking.

3.  Reducing the number of pro teams in the country and particularly in this area.  There are simply not enough fans of any one club in this area to provide the finances required to support one a top team. 

347247[/snapback]

In other words...Lancashire United. Would you support this team? Certainly I wouldn't, I'd rather support the new Blackburn Rovers AFC (or whatever) that would be set up in its place.

As for..."people on here are inevitably coming around to my way of thinking"... . What gonna have on your tombstone? The Words "see...I told you so."

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

3. Reducing the number of pro teams in the country and particularly in this area. There are simply not enough fans of any one club in this area to provide the finances required to support one a top team.

[Claytons Left Boot]

In other words...Lancashire United. Would you support this team? Certainly I wouldn't, I'd rather support the new Blackburn Rovers AFC (or whatever) that would be set up in its place.

347282[/snapback]

Agreed - I would rather stick pins in my eyes than watch Lancashire United. The idea is ludicrous. I am sure the fans of Preston, Blackpool and Burnley would think the same. The day they create Lancashire United (although, of course, it will never happen) is the day I quit football.

[philipl]

Ok drog. I'll humour you.

Lancashire United:

1) Where would they play?

2) What colours would they play in?

3) Which clubs would they absorb?

4) Would this be a merger of equals or would some clubs get more shares than others?

5) Which season do you propose this would start?

6) Would you simply fire all the lower division players brought into LU?

What do you expect the average attendance to be and how soon do you expect them to win the World Club Championship?

Edited September 16, 2005 by philipl

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I said some time ago that Rovers were once again trail blazing in terms of our lowering attendances. This season my prediction seems to be bearing fruit with most existing premiership clubs seemingly suffering from similar problems.

Sorry - though all the reasons mentioned on this thread do have a bearing on attendances - for me the single reason for the Premiership's decline is what made it in the first place - SKY.

For me it is simple - why bother paying £30+ to watch a match, when you can enjoy it on television ?

Forget loyality etc - for the average supporter what real benefit is there on actually going to the match ? For me there was more atmosphere at Rovers when we were getting crowds of 7k to 10k back in the old second division - so what do you actually gain by going to a match besides a hole in your bank account and cold feet ?

The Premier League should never have agreed to the Football First edited highlights on Sky - even though general coverage was slowly killing the game, the coverage wasn't 100%. Now it is - you can see the best bits of every match without the cost etc etc. and the decline in attendances is accelerating.