[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[philipl]

Reading is not your strong suit is it 'drog?

Let me elaborate:

All the Prem outside of CL clubs face a dramatic drop in income from a double whammy of consumer resistance at the gates and the EU Commission acting where they feared to do anything in France against a more monopolistic deal than Sky have. In fact, I'd argue that Sky/PL probably had the balance of broadcast matches tuned just right before the forced cobbled compromise the EU Commission got two years ago.

The key issue is our relative position- Rovers are relatively stronger than all clubs in lower leagues and stronger than most in the Prem- the timing of contract expiries, the strengthg of young players coming through, the all round set-up including the Walker's Trust. In case you hadn't noticed, 'drog, Rovers can only go down if others who are stronger come up and stay up- name more than a dozen clubs unarguably stronger than the Rovers in England.

So do Rovers need LU to save our bacon?- no

Is LU in reality a stealth mechanism for absorbing and strangling the neighbours?- yes, that's exactly what the drog has proposed.

Does Sam Dingle want to be absorbed and strangling?- he seems to have better things to do with his time.

Would LU play to bigger crowds than the Rovers do?- the answer from the sample paying public represented by this MB is a resounding NO.

Unlike the dreamworld in the black and white simplistic absolutist thinking of one of our contributors, life is messy and the solution to football's ills will be even messier. There is a consumer revolt to the recent and relatively sudden dominance of negative unentertaining footballers paid £10,000 a week+++. It coincides with a TV crisis which the League, TV companies and Government don't want and with ManU falling into the hands of exactly the last people you'd want running Old Trafford at a time like this and Chelski looking good for the quadruple.

OK, ###### happens and its happening.

The Prem has had its good years and now it looks not so good- but gazillions times richer than football looked in 1990.

The solution for Rovers is simple - to make sure we stay at the top table.

We are getting headaches off the media because we are seen as the pioneers of 4-5-1 hard ball (we weren't but we are a higher profile club than those who were). Financially, relatively, we are OK and as I repeat ad nauseum, the expensive contracts of ageing players we will no longer need all expire together next summer. The youngsters out on loan are doing their stuff to play themselves back into contention, the Academy are national champions and we've got a squad which will pleasantly surprise many people this season.

And Bob Coar is at the absolute centre of everything that is happening at the FA, so Rovers should be better placed than most to work within whatever emerges.

As always for Blackburn Rovers (except for five glorious Jack years) the name of the game is survival.

We will, probably at the top, end of story....

Edited September 17, 2005 by philipl

[Ozz]

Oooh, I love a happy ending!

[Scotty]

Oh that reminds me.......... Hows BRISA coming along?  Is this going to be our future salvation?

Strange how Scotty made himself look a stupid and churlish tawt somewhere on here by having a right old go at me (quite wrongly as it happens btw) by saying all I did was criticise other people! 

Obviously you've not got a mirror at your house have you Scotty?  

347521[/snapback]

As I keep saying, if you're not confident on our running of BRISA then get involved yourself Theno.

Otherwise, you shut the ### up.

[thenodrog]

Reading is not your strong suit is it 'drog?

Let me elaborate:

In case you hadn't noticed, 'drog, Rovers can only go down if others who are stronger come up and stay up- name more than a dozen clubs unarguably stronger than the Rovers in England.

347524[/snapback]

Remembering things is not your strong suit either is it 'Philip'?

Let me elaborate:

Remember how many clubs were stronger than us for the 25-30 years since abolition of the max wage and before Jack Walker came along? About 30 imo.

The advantage that Jack Walker and his trust fund gives us will inevitably decline. Like everything else in this world it has a shelf life. When that day comes we will cease to defy gravity but will inevitably find our own level which unfortunately is down amongst the lower orders.

Worse still for Blackburn is the growing population of Asian descent in the town. The majority of which clearly do not have the same affinity with BRFC that we do, nor will they ever have imo. As this sector is increasing inevitably the number of indigenous people living in and around the town declines...... This board is an indicator of Blackburnians that have skipped the town and no longer visit the ground for whatever reason.

Afraid the situation needs much more thought and action than you are offering Philip.

Whatever course of action is taken it needs to be remembered that all negotiations are better if taken from a position of strength. One thing that people need to consider (which I'll wager few have in their headlong rush to diss me) is what would happen to BRFC if through necessity or foresight the directors of PNE and Burnley decided to merge their clubs? We'd really be up sh1tt creek without a paddle then.

btw Where do Leeds United figure in all this?

[SouthAussieRover]

Hey folks it's better than Premiership footy at 3pm.

We have a MB love in.

Take it away guys

[andy82]

Worse still for Blackburn is the growing population of Asian descent in the town. The majority of which clearly do not have the same affinity with BRFC that we do, nor will they ever have imo. As this sector is increasing inevitably the number of indigenous people living in and around the town declines......

Rubbish. The asians won't support Rovers because the dickheads that have lived close by and given 'em racial abuse for the past 40 years do. Same round here, none of 'em will support Leeds - many choose teams like Leicester or Rovers where they have relartives.

[Exiled in Toronto]

as I repeat ad nauseum, the expensive contracts of ageing players we will no longer need all expire together next summer.

347524[/snapback]

You do keep saying this, but I'm not sure I see it as being as such a good thing as you do.

All these ageing players (8 is it?) are going to leave for nothing. If we are to replace them numerically in the squad so we have some real competiton for places, where are we going to get eight players for free who are good enough for a mid-table prem league outfit?

History would suggest 1 or 2 at the most from the academy - call it 3 to look on the bright side. My guess is one from the four out on loan (Derbyshire, - Gallagher has already turned out for us 50 times so a few games at Stoke won't make much difference), leaving at least 4 players needing to be bought. Add to that the need to replace certain crap mambers of the squad still under contract, who will then turn into the next lot of overpaid reserves (Emerton, @#/? etc), and we'll be looking at having to buy maybe six players to haver a decent squad. Add to that one trophy purchase up front, say Benni.

Granted the wages ought to be lower, but by how much? $1 million, $2 million tops? While the transfer budget is going to shoot up. I hope Chairman John is budgeting for this.

[Paul]

methinks he doth protest too much......

oh btw scotty that bits Shakespeare

How many monkeys are at your computer?

   

347435[/snapback]

You obviously see the joke Paul.  Care to explain?  I must be too hung over to 'get' it.

347518[/snapback]

There's a theory that if you sit a monkey in front of a computer for long enough it will eventually be able to write Shakespeare.

[Paul]

Oh that reminds me.......... Hows BRISA coming along?  Is this going to be our future salvation?

Strange how Scotty made himself look a stupid and churlish tawt somewhere on here by having a right old go at me (quite wrongly as it happens btw) by saying all I did was criticise other people! 

Obviously you've not got a mirror at your house have you Scotty?  

347521[/snapback]

It's doing fine thanks theno. It was never intended to be the club's salvation so please don't saddle us with that one.

[mhead]

Scared now to support thenodrug on the Lancs United strategy because you are not allowing the MB to be a collection of ideas. I have always said that the Lancs Utd suggestion is about the urban joining together of Preston/Blackburn over the next 20 years. Just watch what happens to Samlesbury and BAe from 2006-10.

Leaving that aside we should be looking constantly at Charlton,Ipswich and Norwich - the way they attract and keep supporters,the way they sell tickets,the way Charlton involves its non-white community.

We have to innovate....create Bleachers areas like US baseball and use the top of the Darwen End as a neutrals area with incentives to join the fans in the rest of the ground.

And we want the optimism of when we had the three gems .. Duff,Dunn and Jansen.

Now I am off to Bulgaria tomorrow...booking the flight before Sky moved the bloody match. So I missed the Wimbledon match in 96 and now the great man's last match. Pigsick.

[philipl]

'drog. 30 years ago Rovers were a little club but now we are about the 12th strongest club in the Prem.

We now have the resources through the Walker inheritance to stay there. Even thirty years ago when there was no money to pay the milkman, we still came mighty close to winning promotion back to the top in about half of the 26 seasons we were outside the top division.

Your argument for LU is a clear take-over by Rovers of our lesser neighbours.

Excellent if we can achieve it but not exactly a strategy grounded in anything resembling reality.

EIT- what happens if we (and all the other Prem clubs) are faced with a 25% drop in income? I think that's a very realistic prospect next summer. Having so many million+ earners out of contract is fantastic news for Rovers.

Edited September 17, 2005 by philipl

[OscarRaven]

I agree the bubble has burst but its not gonna go with a bang.... the air will slowly leak out and as long as the clubs respond quickly enough i.e. with the contracts and contracting thier wage bills at the same rate then it will be ok.

Just wouldn't want to be a team making a push for it at the moment bringing in 50 grand a week players (opps!) as they will be the ones that will sufer the most. Still I couldn't abide it if we were told we were not going to be ambitious so we could ride out the football recession.....

In addition all this talk of volumes vs sales value for the tickets makes me sick... it seems I have gone from following a sport to a bussiness no wonder I dont get that Satuarday feeling anymore.

I would love to say lets take a stand as a club, show the rest how to do it - 10 pound tickets for all.... but then we would go bankrupt inside a season.

[DanLad]

Souness had the right idea when he was here. Attract the away fans with promises of lots of goals! ;-)

Edited September 17, 2005 by DanLad

[broadsword]

Exactly which million-pound earners will be out of contract?

I seem to have this idea that Amoruso still has a year to go.

And I bet the players that remain are hardly paupers, either.

[Scotty]

Why "Lancashire United" wouldn't work.

The Mechanics

Let's keep things simple and say that only two clubs want to merge, say Preston and Blackburn. How could they go about doing it?

Well, the "easiest" option that I can see is that they both disband, resign from the league, and form a new club - Lancashire United (for want of a better name). The problem is though that they would surely then have to start from the bottom of the football league pyramid - just like new clubs AFC Wimbledon and FC United have done. And as Theno's suggestion is aimed at maintaining a successful team in our area what does starting at the bottom achieve?

Another far more complicated option is that one club disbands and then merges with the other. As Blackburn are the higher-placed club, it would make sense (as much as any of this is sensible) for PNE to disband and merge with Blackburn. The problem then is that Preston fans won't want to come to Blackburn to watch their football. I suspect most would rather cut their own throats to be honest!

However, I guess that, in an attempt to reduce the feeling amongst Preston fans that they are simply watching a strengthened Blackburn team, Rovers could change their name to Lancashire United and play in a different kit. This would give the impression that Lancashire United is really a new club when, in fact, it's just Rovers with knobs on. But I think this would just alienate both sets of supporters and, rather than attracting bigger grounds and becoming more successful, we'd see far smaller crowds. You could argue that maybe, in a generation or two, these feelings of resentment within the fans would pass, but where would the "new" club be then? Certainly not in the top division - in fact I suspect they'd go bust long before then.

Another problem with the above is that we are getting close to franchise territory. I'm pretty sure that after the Wimbledon/MK Dons fiasco league rules have been tightened up to prevent franchises being set up and to basically stop clubs moving to another geographical area. So there may be rules in place that simply don't allow Preston to merge with Rovers.

The only way I could see Lancashire United possibly working is if the whole Premiership and Football League structure was changed. In effect, all the existing clubs would have to resign from their respective leagues (or enough to bring about the change) and new leagues would be set up in their place. Lancashire United could then apply to be in the new league, preferably in the top division. However, there would still be huge problems.

The Ground

The new club could presumably use one of the existing two grounds to play their football on, I guess Ewood would make more sense as it's bigger, but then how many Preston fans would travel over to Ewood to watch their footy? Not many I suspect. So I suppose the sensible option would be to build a new ground somewhere between Blackburn and Preston e.g. BAe Samlesbury.

But who pays for this new ground? Neither club has enough money to compete as it is so where are they going to find the extra millions needed to build a new ground? The sales of Deepdale and Ewood would help, but I suspect that the new club would still be well short of the money they needed.

The Fans

As I've said before, if the new club has too close a tie to one of the existing clubs (e.g. plays at Ewood) then the fans of the other club won't watch them. Football fans are too loyal and tribal for that to happen. They would rather not watch football at all, or follow a smaller local team, than support their rivals.

So the new club would have to be as neutral as possible. But even if you made the assumption that a new club (Lancashire United) playing on a new ground (Samlesbury) then had the combined fanbase of PNE and Rovers - a huge assumption to make imo - there would still be all the other problems currently affecting football attendances. There'd still be too much footy on TV, there'd still be the likes of Chelsea and Man U way ahead of the rest, the new club would still probably charge too much to watch the team, the players would still be paid too much and act like cocks half the time. Merging PNE and Rovers won't solve any of those problems. The whole infrastructure of the current domestic and European game would have to be changed to solve all the current problems in football. There's no easy fix.

The Community

The biggest objection I have with a Lancashire United is the loss of Blackburn Rovers to the community of Blackburn. The demographics of the town have changed over the years and there's no doubt that the Asian community in Blackburn don't support Rovers as much as we'd like. However, for tens of thousands of people that live in Blackburn, Blackburn Rovers generate a huge sense of pride. The town doesn't have a lot to shout about, but what it does have is a famous old football club that has achieved great things in the game. If Blackburn lost this what else would it's residents take pride in?

The same would be true for Preston as well. Lancashire United, with its neutrality and faceless name and ground, would not generate that same sense of pride and community spirit.

[Paul]

Thames Valley Royals anyone?

[philipl]

Exactly which million-pound earners will be out of contract?

I seem to have this idea that Amoruso still has a year to go.

And I bet the players that remain are hardly paupers, either.

347583[/snapback]

Lee put up a list on the official site.

I seem to remember that it included Flitcroft, Amo, Tugay, Dickov, Matteo, Gray. The last three are high wage earners as they came on free or near free from clubs where they were earning a fortune.

Brad might have been there but he has extended. Jansen is on pay for play so he wouldn't be much of a saving if he doesn't work out.

[92er]

I think Emerton's contract is also up and he's supposed to be one of the highest earners.

[Billinge End Blue]

The club seem to have given up on getting fans to actually go to watch Rovers games now. Has anybody else received the personalised email as follows?

Picture the scene, It’s Saturday afternoon, you’re out around town shopping with the Mrs and Blackburn Rovers are playing an important fixture. You’re desperate for news on the game but you just can’t seem to get in contact with anyone. - Who’s starting? What’s the score?

FRUSTRATED?

Not any more, sign up to the official Blackburn Rovers SMS service and get:

Managers Comments

Goal Alerts

Official Club News

Divisional Round-ups

And much much more

With official news and information direct from the heart of the club, you’ll never be left frustrated again!

[philipl]

Premiership initiative- seems rather half-hearted.

This analysis has rather more weight. As Waggy, is finding out, it is as expensive to watch lower division non-league football as to watch Schalke 04 in the Bundesliga.

I unashamedly copy the list of lowest prices for one adult and one child for the next home game (my italics and bold):

Chelsea £90

Birmingham £60.50

Newcastle £56

Portsmouth £52

Everton £46

Real Madrid £28.60

Bolton £26

Valencia £24.80

Crawley Town £24

Hereford £22

Roma £21.40

Juventus £20.70

Aston Villa £20

Blackburn £20

Woking £19

Bayern Munich £12.40

Borussia Dortmund £12

Bayern Leverkusen £11.70

Schalke £9.30

That should cause a reaction or two.

Edited September 18, 2005 by philipl

[waggy]

Premiership initiative- seems rather half-hearted.

This analysis has rather more weight. As Waggy, is finding out, it is as expensive to watch lower division non-league football as to watch Schalke 04 in the Bundesliga.

I unashamedly copy the list of lowest prices for one adult and one child for the next home game (my italics and bold):

Chelsea £90

Birmingham £60.50

Newcastle £56

Portsmouth £52

Everton £46

Real Madrid £28.60

Bolton £26

Valencia £24.80

Crawley Town £24

Hereford £22

Roma £21.40

Juventus £20.70

Aston Villa £20

Blackburn £20

Woking £19

Bayern Munich £12.40

Borussia Dortmund £12

Bayern Leverkusen £11.70

Schalke £9.30

That should cause a reaction or two.

347615[/snapback]

i remenber when accy stanlet got promoted to the conferaence,i was going to go to a game until i found out it was £10 to get in

[Paul]

Very hard to argue with those figures philip. Those prices are available in the CIS and JW sections closest to the Darwen End. Question might have to be:

Why are people unaware of this?

Would it be better to offer these prices in the thick of the home support?

To sit with the majority of home support would cost £30 and put us in sixth spot behind Everton

[philipl]

...and what would equivalent seats cost at Everton?

Should always compare like with like.

[Paul]

Very true, I'm not criticising it just observing. Checking Everton's prices it appears for the Wigan game (I'm assuming this is the one referred to) the prices would be between £43 and £46 on three sides of the ground but excluding what I presume to be the two "best" stands - the Main and Park Stands.

[thenodrog]

There's a theory that if you sit a monkey in front of a computer for long enough it will eventually be able to write Shakespeare. 

347551[/snapback]

Oh right. That's umm err ....a very good joke guys...... and very relevent to the topic too.

hardly worth 3 smilies though Paul.