New Orleans

[philipl]

Ask the US State Department. It is evaluating the offers of help.

Obviously the US doesn't need Chavez's barrels of oil at sub-OPEC prices.

[philipl]

Some international comment on the plight of the USA:

Perhaps the much-abused and maligned French can be forgiven Le Progres: "Katrina has shown that the emperor has no clothes. The world's superpower is powerless when confronted with nature's fury."

Not entirel surprising comment from Kenya: "My first reaction when television images of the survivors of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans came through the channels was that the producers must be showing the wrong clip. The images, and even the disproportionately high number of visibly impoverished blacks among the refugees, could easily have been a re-enactment of a scene from the pigeonholed African continent."

A telling comment from HongKong: "This disaster is a heavy blow to the United States, and a lesson which deserves deep thought... [it] is a warning to the Bush administration that the United States must clear its head and truly assume its responsibility to protect nature and the environment in which humankind lives."

Perhaps the pot calling the kettle black but the Iranian take on things: "About 10,000 US National Guard troops were deployed [in New Orleans] and were granted the authority to fire at and kill whom they wanted, upon the pretext of restoring order. This decision is an indication of the US administration's militarist mentality, which regards killing as the only way to control even its own citizens."

Most disconcerting for those responsible for the relief effort is that it is not just Hugo Chávez who is expressing his amazement. Jack Cafferty, the CNN anchor known for his straight-talking, declared: "I remember the riots in Watts. I remember the earthquake in San Francisco. I remember a lot of things. I have never seen anything as badly handled as this situation in New Orleans. Where the hell is the water for these people? Why can't sandwiches be dropped to those people in that Superdome down there? It's a disgrace. And don't think the world isn't watching."

PS all the Homeland Security people FEMA supplies to Baton Rouge have been binned. Suprise, surprise, they didn't need the medicines to deal with an anthrax attack.

Edited September 3, 2005 by philipl

[philipl]

From Sunday morning's Observer newspaper:

"Bush was already under fire for taking the longest summer vacation in presidential history and he stayed put at his ranch in Texas as Katrina made her deadly landfall. On Wednesday, two days after the hurricane struck, he flew over the area in Air Force One, only arriving yesterday (but not in New Orleans itself) to see the scene for himself, though he did declare that relief efforts so far had been inadequate. He sounded grave, but spoke of hope ahead, even in these "darkest days". In previous public appearances, his tone and demeanour seemed inappropriate, further evidence of the tin ear he displayed when referring to Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers as "folks". It is hard to disagree with the New York Times, famously restrained in its use of language, whose editorial found that Mr Bush's response had been "casual to the point of carelessness". The Times' former editor, Howell Raines, wrote in our pages that his behaviour was "outrageous".

"More substantive points include charges that the president cut funding for the levees that were supposed to protect New Orleans from floods. Others have singled out the damaging and greedy redevelopment of coastal wetlands. Not all the criticism stands up to close scrutiny. Even with full funding in recent years, none of the flood-control projects would have been completed in time to prevent the swamping of the city. Staving off cuts to the budget of army engineers would not have helped since the destruction was vaster than any contingency. Still, there is a widespread perception that the sheer scale of the problems reflects a shuffling of resources - to pay for tax cuts and the Iraq adventure - that has left the US far too vulnerable. It is all a brutal reminder that government policies, sometimes followed only in the small print of rows over obscure budget allocations, can have real - and deadly - consequences for real people.

"The words "homeland security" now have a terribly hollow ring in the anarchic south: 35% of Louisiana's National Guard is serving in Iraq, where four out of every 10 soldiers are guardsmen. And recruiting is down because people fear being sent to Iraq. The priority given to law and order seems a troubling inverse reflection of what happened after the fall of Baghdad. Is it really more important to use deadly force against looters than to deliver humanitarian aid effectively?

"Elemental forces do not take account of secular political timetables, but Katrina struck at a moment when the president's ratings were at a second-term low. Americans, especially the poor black people who are the hurricane's main victims, will need to see a much more effective government response to this natural weapon of mass destruction if Mr Bush's reputation is not to sink further as the killer floodwaters start to recede."

[Ste B]

Nice to see the compassion you had for the Tsunami victims has moved over to the victims of this hurricane you jackass.

Where's your cry for the world to be giving more money for relief now?

344604[/snapback]

Agreed. In times of crisis such as this, its pathetic to try to score cheap political shots.

[AlanK]

As far as politics go, I don`t give a damn. Never followed them, studied them or understood them.

However, I have studied meteorology at an enthusiast level. The USA were warned about this hurricane, they demanded that everyone evacuate, thankfully most people did.

So howcome with all this foresight it has taken 4 days for food and water to reach the survivors? Surely the national guard should have been on standby to deliver huge amounts of aid the very second the storm passed over. Why the delay? How the hell is a 3/4 day dealy justified. The aid convoy should have been waiting to cruise in to town the very second the storm passed by. They knew where and when it was going to hit. They knew the damage it would do? Just where was the convoy aid last Monday as teh storm hit? It was obviously 4 days away Good old US of A. What a ******* up..

[AlanK]

As for that ###### George Bush wrapping his arms around anyone gullible enough to be taken in by him just for his own photo oppurtunity, it disgusts me. The prick is a complete weasel and doesn`t give a flying fig what he does, where he does it or who he offends/manipulates.

Put him in a ring with Saddam.

[Glenn]

As for that ###### George Bush wrapping his arms around anyone gullible enough to be taken in by him just for his own photo oppurtunity, it disgusts me. The prick is a complete weasel and doesn`t give a flying fig what he does, where he does it or who he offends/manipulates.

Put him in a ring with Saddam.

344615[/snapback]

From the scanners, it seems the Red Cross are STILL being denied access !

However, the NOPD and NOFD are struggling to contain a burning mall in the CBD because they are STILL coming under sniper fire.

[philipl]

Agreed.  In times of crisis such as this, its pathetic to try to score cheap political shots.

344612[/snapback]

I completely agree.

A very expensive misjudgement.

Friends in the right places.

American hospitality? New Orleans is a tourist destination in case anyone has forgotten.

One figure says it all. It would have cost $2.5 billion to build defenses capable of resisting a Category 5 storm. Katrina was an upper Category 4. The Iraq war is costing $6 billion a week. Nothing about New Orleans and its situation is new; its vulnerability has been clear for centuries.

Edited September 4, 2005 by philipl

[Paul]

Glenn, thanks for all those links. I've been following them over the last few days. I haven't used things like this before, its been fascinating.

I can't make up my mind about these people, they talk of being freedom fighters and use quite militaristic language - Alpha Group etc. Are they ordinary people who are getting a little carried away or something else?

Moving on to Bush, who I don't have any real feelings for one way or the other, I was taken aback by one statement he made a few days back in which he indicated, by referring to it immediately, that Iraq is still top of his agenda. I can't recall the exact words but it was on the lines of "We'll defeat the terrorists AND we'll look after the folks at home" - I haven't seen the interview repeated anywhere, unlike his recent stuff.

It strikes me this disaster is probably more severe in its long-tem consequences than the tsunami. I realise many more died in the tsunami but I wonder if the recovery programme is in some way "simpler" for those affected. If one lives in a "simple" and relatively poor society the steps back are shorter? The USA is looking at having to rebuild cities and repopulate them, I seriously wonder if this is possible? Please don't shoot me down in flames, it's a thought process I'm trying to work out.

Over the last few days we've seen a hidden part of America. I suspect it exists in every country, it would be good to think the TV images would act as a wake-up call for us all. It won't happen, apart from a Panorama Special in 12 months time.

[cn174]

One figure says it all. It would have cost $2.5 billion to build defenses capable of resisting a Category 5 storm. Katrina was an upper Category 4. The Iraq war is costing $6 billion a week. Nothing about New Orleans and its situation is new; its vulnerability has been clear for centuries.

344620[/snapback]

Whilst Katrina has been called a once in a lifetime event, there is nothing to say it wont happen again. Lets not forget that the hurricane didnt actually hit the city, and if it had it may have been even worse.

What I dont understand is that they're planning on rebuilding it back to how it was. They may build the walls higher and stronger, but there is no defence that can hold back anything. If in say 10 years time there is a bigger hurricane and the defences are breached once again - the impacts will be a lot worse as the volume of water will be a lot greater. So the city will be rebuilt, but it will still be vunerable to these kind of events.

[Cocker]

sums things up

[Glenn]

Glenn, thanks for all those links. I've been following them over the last few days. I haven't used things like this before, its been fascinating.

I can't make up my mind about these people, they talk of being freedom fighters and use quite militaristic language - Alpha Group etc. Are they ordinary people who are getting a little carried away or something else?

Mike (Interdictor) is ex-special forces and took his job as DirectNics disaster management manager to the extreme. Donny and Sig (who are in there with him) are just a techie and a suit and from their chat sessions don't seem to share Mike's love of the military stuff, although they do admit Mike and his methods are the reason they are still alive and still transmitting.

Until recently the main thing they were doing was getting real info on the real situation out to the world. At the time the news was concentrating on Biloxi as thats where they could get news crews too, NO was being classed as "under control" becuase thats what they were being told, when under control was (and still is) far from the truth.

Since yesterday NOPD has allowed news crews into the city (and the Sally Army ... but not the Red Cross FFS !) into the city, so more info is coming out, so the guys at outpost crytsal are now less essential.

It does now smack of "were staying until told because we can" a little, but they are also helping repair the citys comms infrastructure.

Right or Wrong ... following their plight has been compelling viewing/reading.

[SuperStella]

I think I'll wait til after the watershed before i comment on this subject

[SouthAussieRover]

I don't think I'll bother commenting in case it's construed as a cheap political shot (whatever that may be).

[Glenn]

I think the political implications of this need to be discussed. The pre-warning was botched, the pre-hurricane evactuation was botced and then the post-hurricane evactuaion and rescue who horrendously botched.

The big question is were the delays (at ever stage) deliberate or just buerocratic bumbling. How come a city built in such a vulnerable position had such an inadequate evacuation plan. How come DoHS and FEMA seemed to be completely unprepared for this kind of incident when managing such incidents is one of their main purposes. How did both the command and communications infrastructure fail in such a catostrophic way, when both are easly prevntable.

I don't but Kanye West's "George Bush doesn't care about black people" rant, but I do buy "Amercia was grossely underprepared for an entirely predictable situation".

[MCMC1875]

Is this all my fault?

[philipl]

The USA has finally told the EU and NATO what supplies it needs to help it with the hurricane. I do not know whether the US has replied to the offers of help received from the UN, neighbouring countries such as Cuba and Venezuela or any other countries which have offered assistance. Are all the domestic aid agencies that are offering help being allowed to operate yet?

Of course this has nothing to do with politics.

I hope the emmergency planning people in the rest of the world are looking and learning. With Global Warming off the American agenda, the fate of New Orleans could be facing much of The Netherlands in ten to fifteen years' time and London in most of our life times.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Some of the anti-american stuff on this site and others alike make me sick, yes the US gets alot of things wrong ( including no proper relief to the people including supplies medicine etc) but to have a pop at them over this is quite sickining. How can people blame Bush for one of the the most powerful storms to ever have reached te area. People say its what comes around goes around

1stly due to goverment spending resources in Iraq instead of flood defence, wrong take Rotterdamn for example they have spent Billions of euros on defending the city from both coastal ans sea flooding but If a storm of such manitude hit the area you wood get simalr results in terms of flooding / damage as in NO

And the second argument is even better " they havent signed the Kyoto agreement so thats what happens" when there is no sccientific link between global warming and the magnitude of a hurracaine infact I doubt many of the so-called experts on this site, no extremley little of the matter and are just having a cheap shot .

I didnt see anyone having cheap shots at Indonesian and Sri Lanken goverments over the boxing day events ( who are both members of the top 20 most corrupt goverments in the world)

[blue phil]

Some of the anti-american stuff on this site and others alike make me sick,

344865[/snapback]

You can almost feel the delight that some of the more self righteous posters are taking in seeing Bush's mistakes in responding to the situation in the South .

I can forsee a time when such disasters mean that the US is forced to become a more isolationist nation . Maybe one day they might have to lower their donations to the UN and to aid agencies and to the third world countries in order to concentrate on natural disasters at home . Maybe then the Yankee haters will appreciate that the US gives a hell of a lot more than it takes . As a super power they are slightly more preferable than Russia or China or , God forbid , some Islamic country - whether the Democrats (goodies) or the Republicans (baddies) are in office .

[cletus]

I think the magnitude of the whole event has taken everyone by suprise...even the U.S government.

They seems to be getting to grips with the situation now, but for the dead & homeless people, it`s obviously too late.

I hope alot of lessons will be learnt from this, by everyone....even the President of the USA. America will have more natural disasters in the future, like the big one which will someday hit San Fransisco/California, the caldera in the national park which could devastate thousands of miles of the U.S if/when it blows & the possible Tsunami heading towards the eastern seaboard if/when half of that canary island slides into the sea.

Hurricane Katrina may have done America a favour, by shaking itself out of its slumber & comfort zone. They will have to start looking at the possibilities of these natural disasters happening....as we all will.

[tmap]

It certainly seems like the authorities could have had better plans in place, but you need to bear in mind that they DID tell people to get out and they DID predict what was happening. It's difficult to think of a precedent for an entire city being evacuated. The federal and military response could have been quicker though.

Oh yeah - and global warming, my a$$. Even global warming enthusiasts can't come up with a good explanation as to why CO2 would intensify a storm, there are plenty of worse storms on record through the centuries, and the only "rising sea level" effects recorded are from local levee subsidence, not melting icebergs.

[Glenn]

It certainly seems like the authorities could have had better plans in place, but you need to bear in mind that they DID tell people to get out and they DID predict what was happening. 

Governer Nagin DID decide to delay the evacuation order by 24 hours for no seemingly good reason. They DID order an evacuation with the full knowledge that those without cars had insufficient time to make it.

(Much respect to Nagin for holding his hands up afterwards and admitting he screwed up and for shamming the government into actually doing something).

[Glenn]

. How can people blame Bush for one of the  the most powerful storms to ever have reached te area.

I don't think anyone is blaming bush for the storm. People are blaming nagin for being vastly underprepared for something that has been predicted for decades and blaming Bush/FEMA/FedGov/NG/USArmyCommand for not taking control of the situation much faster.

.

1stly due to goverment spending resources in Iraq instead of flood defence,

The funds allocated to maintain the levees had been cut over recent years, but it would be unfair to say these funds had been sent directly to Iraq. However there is no denying 30% of the NO National Guard and it's equipment is currently in Iraq. The NO NG were the only group with ANY kind of functioning command structure in the city by day 5.

.

wrong take Rotterdamn for example they have spent Billions of euros on defending the city from both coastal ans sea flooding but If a storm of such manitude hit the area you wood get simalr results in terms of flooding / damage as in NO

Rotterdam, like Florida has also spent HUGE amounts of money and planning for such an enventuality. I have no doubts whatsoever that both cities would have coped with a Cat 5 Hurricane far far better than NOLA. NOLA seemed to be burying it's head in the sand over this for the last decade.

For those that form opinions based on skim reading, please NOTE. I AM NOT ANTI-AMERICAN, sure I am anti-Bush, but believe his government was only one of many agenceies that dropped the ball. I also am not putting the hurricane down to global warming. I believe it's simply chaos theory in action.

[Glenn]

The USA has finally told the EU and NATO what supplies it needs to help it with the hurricane. I do not know whether the US has replied to the offers of help received from the UN, neighbouring countries such as Cuba and Venezuela or any other countries which have offered assistance. Are all the domestic aid agencies that are offering help being allowed to operate yet? 

Of course this has nothing to do with politics.

I hope the emmergency planning people in the rest of the world are looking and learning. With Global Warming off the American agenda, the fate of New Orleans could be facing much of The Netherlands in ten to fifteen years' time and London in most of our life times.

344732[/snapback]

Aid from Cuba has certainly been rejected (despite Cuba algready having coped with several Cat 5 hurricanes before).

The "big" domestic aid agencies (Red Cross etc) were allowed unrestricted access at the same time as the news crews ! (Note for two days, the only aid group inside the city was the Sally Army !!!) However, non-ratified organisations and individual are still denied access (apart from a few outlying and dry parishes). There are hundreds of people with cell phone access to stranded folks who the NG won't allow them to go to. Currently if you leave it's on a sanctioned bus or hellicopter and have in many cases have little or no choice where you are flown-on to.

An aside. As so many (pre-hurricane-probably-mentally-ill) homeless refused to leave without their possesions, Chinooks now allow them to take shopping trollies on them

An Aside 2. There is a huge oil slick off NOLA now and a 1000ft x 1000 ft x 1000 ft toxic (reported as Sulphuric Acid) cloud surrounding a chemicals factory.

An Aside 3. A combination of buidling materials and flood water contents means almost all flooded residentail housing will have to demolished (thats what happens when you build with wood not bricks).

[Glenn]

You can almost feel the delight that some of the more self righteous posters are taking in seeing Bush's mistakes in responding to the situation in the South .

  I can forsee a time when such disasters mean that the US is forced to become a more isolationist nation .

344870[/snapback]

Driving back from Blackburn last night there was a very intresting programme on 5 live convering the fact that often people won't donate to relief efforts becuse they feel no association with a bloke in a hut in Niger, however now, many are refusing to donate to NOLA appeals because "America has the cash to sort it's own problems out".

Whilst I understand that feeling (because, quite simply it does), how much of that is going to filter down to the refugees ? Personally, I'll be sending a sizable chunk to the Red Cross, at least that way I can pretty much gaurentee it's going to somewhere it's needed.