New Orleans

[Dan Furness]

I agree with them on radio Glenn, America has more than enough resources to pull themselves through this, that is my own personal opinion.

And when I get my suspected slating, how many of the brits on here supported Carlisle earlier this year?

[Ewood Spark]

Oh yeah - and global warming, my a$$.  Even global warming enthusiasts can't come up with a good explanation as to why CO2 would intensify a storm,  there are plenty of worse storms on record through the centuries, and the only "rising sea level" effects recorded are from local levee subsidence, not melting icebergs.

344972[/snapback]

Increased C02 levels can have an indirect effect on the intensity of a storm. CO2 is a greenhouse gas and acts in a similar way to glass in that it is transparent to short wavelength radiation (ie light) but acts as a barrier to long wavelength radiation (ie heat). The net result is that the planet is warming up. Storms are fueled by the heat of the oceans they form over. The warmer the sea the more energetic the storm. Measurements of ocean temperature taken a few months ago showed the Atlantic off the coast of Africa being 2degrees above average for the time of year, leading climatoligists to predict a particularly bad storm season for the Gulf region. There are still around eight weeks of the storm season left.

[USABlue]

Well, I read through this garbage and it was just about as I expected. All Anti American political laundry airing, only American and I think one other actually mentioned anything about the human suffering, no mention of any compassion on here. Perhaps your hearts would go out if New Orleans had been choc full of British Holiday makers a la the Tsunami.

As I mentioned during the Tsunami no one cares when there are disasters here. You were all too worried about how much America had or had not given at that time, I wonder where the dollar totals lie now.

You are all bloody hypocrites, queueing up to have a go.

As for America having enough of it's own resources, is that really the point. I feel a deep sadness for many of you since you do not fully understand humanity, plastic is what you are, plastic.

[Glenn]

I agree with them on radio Glenn, America has more than enough resources to pull themselves through this, that is my own personal opinion.

And when I get my suspected slating, how many of the brits on here supported Carlisle earlier this year?

345023[/snapback]

My point is "America" does have enough money, but how much of it will filter down to those that need it ?

Also, two people died in the Carlisle flood, NOLA could reach tens of thousands !

[Glenn]

Well, I read through this garbage and it was just about as I expected.  All Anti American political laundry airing, only American and I think one other actually mentioned anything about the human suffering, no mention of any compassion on here.

345036[/snapback]

May I suggest you go back an re-read my posts then. I have done little for over a week with my spare time other than try to raise awareness of the suffering that was going on (both on UK forums like this and through a bit of helping with scanner/cam transcribing and posting info to www.nola-intel.com).

Sure, I've ranted about the bureucracy that has prolonged the suffering, but I don't think that is Anti-American.

[USABlue]

May I suggest you go back an re-read my posts then. I have done little for over a week with my spare time other than try to raise awareness of the suffering that was going on (both on UK forums like this and through a bit of helping with scanner/cam transcribing and posting info to www.nola-intel.com).

Sure, I've ranted about the bureucracy that has prolonged the suffering, but I don't think that is Anti-American.

345043[/snapback]

Well done Glenn.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

My point is "America" does have enough money, but how much of it will filter down to those that need it ?

Also, two people died in the Carlisle flood, NOLA could reach tens of thousands !

345039[/snapback]

A slight difference in the magnitude of the two events events .Maybe the reason I for one am not having a go at people for airing there views its just the typical line of " this has happened due to the US not signing the Kyoto agreement , so its the US's own fault " which is utter pish . AS i have said before if a storm of this size hit any low lying cityof simalr populace then the results would be catostrophic

Edited September 6, 2005 by Bazzanotsogreat

[speeeeeeedie]

Aid from Cuba has certainly been rejected (despite Cuba algready having coped with several Cat 5 hurricanes before).

I think that when Cuba got battered last year the US offered aid and Cuba refused it. It is all political with Castro; he's trying it on, but I'm also sure he would send the aid if they let him.

It's sad to say but I'm now getting a bit fed up of what is happening. The US media (where all the info comes from) are dividing their time between human interest stories of people being rescued from their rooftops and slating every politician they can blame anything on. Celebrities are jumping on the bandwagon, most sensing some free publicity, with others talking complete sh!te. The worrying thing with most American issues is that is has now been turned into a race battle with one side blaming the slowness to react on the fact that many locals are black.

Over the next month or so we are going to see dead body after dead body coupled with stories of heroism hereunto never seen before. I wonder how many dead animals they will find? Still now though there are hundreds refusing to leave their homes, for whatever reason. The sad facts are that there will probably be over 10,000 dead once it's all finished with New Orleans, Biloxi, and Gulfport being ghost towns.

[SouthAussieRover]

I wonder how many dead animals they will find?

345055[/snapback]

Probably very few given the reports of how animals seemed to "use their sixth sense" in the prelude to the tsunami.

Here's an example from Sri Lanka

http://www.lankalibrary.com/news/animals.htm

[SuperStella]

Two plane loads of volunteers left Liverpool airport today bound for Mississippi; to assist with looting

[speeeeeeedie]

SAR, I read reports on the Tsunami animals, but was this a bit different. Most animals in NO are urban creatures. How would they find higher ground? Go into hotels? I'm not having a go, I just think this case is different from the tidal wave.

[Tango]

Two plane loads of volunteers left Liverpool airport today bound for Mississippi; to assist with looting

345059[/snapback]

I'm holding you responsible for making me laugh out loud in the office!

[SouthAussieRover]

SAR, I read reports on the Tsunami animals, but was this a bit different. Most animals in NO are urban creatures. How would they find higher ground? Go into hotels? I'm not having a go, I just think this case is different from the tidal wave.

345074[/snapback]

Aye fair point speeeeeeedie though it's still interesting many animals in the tsunami areas escaped unharmed.

And now I can't get this vision out of my head of all these pet animals queing up at hotel reception desks looking for a room

[pg]

This was posted by the US weather service (NOAA?)

They are probably the only government dept. that can't be criticised, as they certainly gave an accurate forecast.

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA

413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

EXTREMELY DANGEROUS HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE

MISSISSIPPI RIVER DELTA

DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WATCH IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 TO 36 HOURS.

LAZ038-040-050-056>070-MSZ080>082-290300-

ASSUMPTION-HANCOCK-HARRISON-JACKSON-LIVINGSTON-LOWER JEFFERSON-

LOWER LAFOURCHE-LOWER PLAQUEMINES-LOWER ST. BERNARD-LOWER TERREBONNE-

ORLEANS-ST. CHARLES-ST. JAMES-ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST-ST. TAMMANY-

TANGIPAHOA-UPPER JEFFERSON-UPPER LAFOURCHE-UPPER PLAQUEMINES-

UPPER ST. BERNARD-UPPER TERREBONNE-

413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

[philipl]

I wonder how that was related by the TV weather forecasters on the afternoon of 28 August?

[andy82]

Well, I read through this garbage and it was just about as I expected.  All Anti American political laundry airing, only American and I think one other actually mentioned anything about the human suffering, no mention of any compassion on here.  Perhaps your hearts would go out if New Orleans had been choc full of British Holiday makers a la the Tsunami.

As I mentioned during the Tsunami no one cares when there are disasters here.  You were all too worried about how much America had or had not given at that time, I wonder where the dollar totals lie now.

  You are all bloody hypocrites, queueing up to have a go.

As for America having enough of it's own resources, is that really the point.  I feel a deep sadness for many of you since you do not fully understand humanity, plastic is what you are, plastic.

345036[/snapback]

1. If anywhere deserved it, it was America. Fact. You are the worlds biggest problem.

2. From the massive amount of 'small town' american press, your countries making themselves look even worse. Why are we reading all these stories about how rich white folk are demanding to be housed as refugees together, in certain areas, with certain people etc etc, whilst they don't even acknowledge half the poor people can't even get out the city? If you won't even help yourselves, why should you get help from elsewhere?

3. Dollar totals? Dont be so daft. Its americans that think in dollar totals. We are all hoping for a maximum devastation, minumum deaths. Its clear to see who is thinking in dollar totals when you look at what has and hasnt been destroyed in N.O - Note all government property seems to be fine, and the only tourist attractions showing any sort of strain are the Superdome and Convention Centre.

4. Human suffering? You think that doesnt happen elsewhere every single day? Shell have shot up half of Nigeria to get the fuel to your car. Nike exploit sweatshop workers worldwide - yet these companies are seen as trendsetters, world leaders, something to be admired, thanks to American freemarket ideals. Don't see any of you yanks whinging about that ever though. Nice to see the minute the sh*t hits the fan, Walmart and Foot Locker are raided instantly. At least there is a couple of people left in your country with their head screwed on.

5. Halliburton were given the contract for the cleanup (probably uncontested, but i havent found proof of that yet) way back in July. Alarm bells are ringing.

6. I geniunely believe, from what i have read, that there was NO INTENTION to save many of the poor in N.O. This is why it was several days before red cross etc was allowd in.

Your governments shafted you, again. Nay mind, you'll still vote for the same party next time, because you 'always do'.

[Glenn]

5. Halliburton were given the contract for the cleanup (probably uncontested, but i havent found proof of that yet) way back in July. Alarm bells are ringing.

345276[/snapback]

Before I tear the rest of that apart, can I just point out this is grossely incorrect (and has been sensationalised by many bloggers already).

Halliburton have been CALLED IN (not given a new contract) to repair the NAVY BASE (not all of NOLA) under and EXISTING CONTRACT for such maintainence signed in 2001 (renewed in 2004).

So, no big conspiracy here. In fact, even the distinctly anti-halliburton guys at Halliburton Watch give a more accuarte account the most of the net.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/hurricane_katrina.html

[Glenn]

1. If anywhere deserved it, it was America. Fact. You are the worlds biggest problem.

345276[/snapback]

How can you say a single death is deserved ? Let alone 10,00 plus. This is a completely outragous statement. Did the German citizens killed by the allies in WW II "deserve it" ? After all, they voted a madman into power, just as the US did (as despite my misgiving about Bush, I'd would still class Hitler a bigger problem).

[Glenn]

2. From the massive amount of 'small town' american press, your countries making themselves look even worse. Why are we reading all these stories about how rich white folk are demanding to be housed as refugees together, in certain areas, with certain people etc etc, whilst they don't even acknowledge half the poor people can't even get out the city? If you won't even help yourselves, why should you get help from elsewhere?

345276[/snapback]

I'm struggling with this one. Is your point that American press is influenced by outside sources ? If so, then I whole heatedly agree. Certainly the Internet was a powerfull tool in this disaster, just and the worlds press was concentrating on Biloxi and saying "New Orleans escaped the worst", it was plainly obvious to anyone reading the right places this was far from the truth.

It very "National Enquirer" but These Guys are worth a look. Ceratinly, over the last few years I've learnt to view CNN/FOX etc with a healthy dose of sceptacism.

If your point is that part of American have a huge rich/poor and black/white divide, then it's hard to argue. However to tar the entire popular of the country with the same brush is moronic.

[SouthAussieRover]

Oh stop ranting Glenn.

Admin should stay out of political issues and not pick and choose which ones they want to intervene in a debate about

[Glenn]

3. Dollar totals? Dont be so daft. Its americans that think in dollar totals. We are all hoping for a maximum devastation, minumum deaths. Its clear to see who is thinking in dollar totals when you look at what has and hasnt been destroyed in N.O - Note all government property seems to be fine, and the only tourist attractions showing any sort of strain are the Superdome and Convention Centre.

345276[/snapback]

Speak for yourself. I was hoping more minimal devastation too. I don't get my jollies from watching people periously close to the poverty line loose everything they have.

ALL government property is far from fine, the stuff located in the Central Business District if more or less fine, but that is an accident of geography not conspiracy theories. As for tourist attractions (and as someone who has never visited NO), other than boubon street what were they ?

Any A-Level geography student (or Sim City player) will tell you they dangerous or undesiable land results in cheap housing, therefore it was a given that any impending fire, flood, or nuclear disaster will always hit low cost housing worse (because the folks that can afford to live elsewhere do). No where else in the world is any different.

[Glenn]

Oh stop ranting Glenn.

Admin should stay out of political issues and not pick and choose which ones they want to intervene in a debate about  

345299[/snapback]

I don't know if you're being serious or not Don, assuming you are, then why the hell not. I used to have an alias I'd rant under, but I figured if I can't join in there is no point me being here.

I would however be worried if people responded differently (or didn't respond at all) because I'm Admin. Likewise it would be out of order if I used the admin privs to my advantage in a discussion (i.e. edit/remove posts when it suited).

[Glenn]

4. Human suffering? You think that doesnt happen elsewhere every single day? Shell have shot up half of Nigeria to get the fuel to your car. Nike exploit sweatshop workers worldwide - yet these companies are seen as trendsetters, world leaders, something to be admired, thanks to American freemarket ideals. Don't see any of you yanks whinging about that ever though. Nice to see the minute the sh*t hits the fan, Walmart and Foot Locker are raided instantly. At least there is a couple of people left in your country with their head screwed on.

345276[/snapback]

Every day, 10,000+ dead, several 100,00 made homeless ? No I don't. Sure, I'll be the first to acknowledge that US owned companies things are doing some appauling thing in countries they can get away with it in (Coca-Cola turning farmlands in India in deserts through water extraction and executing union leaders in Mexico is something I've campaigned against). But, no you don't see this scale of deverstaion every day.

As for looting, there was a fine line between survival and opertunism and many crossed that line. However I doubt that those loading dozens of pairs of Reeboks into trolleys in Walmart did so as a statement against capitalism. They did it because they are theiving scum.

[Glenn]

6. I geniunely believe, from what i have read, that there was NO INTENTION to save many of the poor in N.O. This is why it was several days before red cross etc was allowd in.

Your governments shafted you, again. Nay mind, you'll still vote for the same party next time, because you 'always do'.

345276[/snapback]

I'd like to finish my wasted lunch hour by not pulling this bit apart. If the delay wasn't intentional, then a whole chain of folks screwed up big time.

As for the politics of it ..... that's not something I feel is needed for discussion now, however I've not seen anything to convince me that if Gore, Kerry or even Ralph Nader had been in power, things would have been any different.

[SouthAussieRover]

I don't know if you're being serious or not Don, assuming you are, then why the hell not. I used to have an alias I'd rant under, but I figured if I can't join in there is no point me being here.

I would however be worried if people responded differently (or didn't respond at all) because I'm Admin. Likewise it would be out of order if I used the admin privs to my advantage in a discussion (i.e. edit/remove posts when it suited).

345301[/snapback]

Cheers you've clarified a few points there.

Carry on ranting.

I wonder if heads in the major levels of the government and its agencies will roll as a result of the long delays in getting help to the affected.

Knowing the way the Bush administration seems to get away with things maybe not.

BTW glad to see you have the courage to post as Glenn and not via an alias anymore

Edited September 7, 2005 by SouthAussieRover