New Orleans

[speeeeeeedie]

I find it very hard to believe that the US government deliberately held back rescue efforts to kill the poor. I've read my fair share of conspiracies but this one is up there. Despite what most people think of George W. Bush I do not believe that he is a genocidal tyrant. I think that too many people are very quick to judge the USA in this case, probably because of the Iraq war cock up. I'm no fan of Bush but what I'm trying to say is that how could a country that stands for democracy and equality do this in full view of the world.

Andy82, are you saying that Cowboy Bush sat in the White House and when notified that a hurricane might directly hit New Orleans he sat there rubbing his hands thinking "great, we'll get rid of a few"? A tad cynical even for a student's eager mind. There is one such conspiracy theory running around that tries to say that Roosevelt during the 1930's "New Deal" to get the US out of a depression moved loads of poor people to rural states such as Iowa so that they could all be killed off every year by tornadoes. Do you subscribe to that one too? If America deserved it so do the Germans as Glenn pointed out, as do the British, French, Spanish, and Portugese for their colonial adventures plus numerous other countries that have conquered over time. You should study history a bit. The human race is not a bunch of hand-holding, peace-loving, egalitarian creatures they are a selfish, self serving, greedy bunch who will quite easily run over another one for their own self gain.

Politicians survive by placating voters; I don't think that murder would get many of them votes.

The reasons for the delay are now turning into a childish "it's your fault" slanging match. The national government is run by the Republicans yet the state and local ones are Democrat. Each is now saying that the other should have acted first; this gives a clue as to why there was a delay, no-one had any idea what to do or who was giving out the orders.

FEMA, the agency getting the worst of it is made up of many volunteers and part timers, they are not thousands of ready professionals sitting in mess halls waiting for the next disaster. They have normal jobs, then when disaster strikes they are called by a private contractor (who won a government contract), then they have X amount of time to get to where they are supposed to go and await further orders. The only person likely to lose over this is the FEMA boss who has looked like a clown throughout. The fact that he got the job becuase he inherited it from his old boss and only got that one because he helped on Bush's 2000 election campaign with the former boss may have something to do with why he stands around sweating.

[andy82]

How can you say a single death is deserved ? Let alone 10,00 plus. This is a completely outragous statement. Did the German citizens killed by the allies in WW II "deserve it" ? After all, they voted a madman into power, just as the US did (as despite my misgiving about Bush, I'd would still class Hitler a bigger problem).

345295[/snapback]

I didnt say a single death was deserved. However, after what the yanks have done in recent years, its nice to see an american city crippled. ask those in Baghdad.

I don't think president Bush and cronies were sat rubbing their hands thinking 'lets kill all the poor black people'. However i do believe that they have not placed a single life above anything that has significant money making value.

I don't think things would have been a great deal different if Gore was in charge. There would have been less homes to flood (as many close to the canal have been built recently, despite complaints from democrats), and i don't think the canal breach would have happened, and the aid would have come in slightly quicker..... if Nader was in charge, well, i'm not gonna bother wasting my time speculating.

As for the looters, they are not scum. its human nature. But i notice you didnt see any of them robbing bars owned by private citizens who were armed with a shotgun protecting their livelihoods. My point isnt 'woohoo, walmart are really gonna feel that one', it was more that the companies themselves hadnt cared to prepare for it, like they actually believed it wasn't going to happen.

I don't wish death on any American, just a diet and a lesson in globalisation. When i read a news report of a woman old enough to remember the second world war complaining because she had to spend a night in a refugee centre without a toothbrush however, i do wonder.

Your comparison to Hitler is an interesting one. I am sure you are aware that Britain was almost on his side, and had it not been for the working class would have probably entered some sort of coalition with him. Makes you think.

[Ste B]

I didnt say a single death was deserved. However, after what the yanks have done in recent years, its nice to see an american city crippled.

NICE ??

FFS.. so its nice to see thousands killed ??? Idiot.

[blue phil]

Your comparison to Hitler is an interesting one. I am sure you are aware that Britain was almost on his side, and had it not been for the working class would have probably entered some sort of coalition with him. Makes you think.

345323[/snapback]

The working class !! Britain "almost" on Adolf's side ? Have you been reading Stalin's version of the war and its build up ? The closet we would have come to being on his side was if the Fuhrer had been sat behind the desk at Downing St and dictated policy .

Still , nice to know that those workers , Churchill , Attlee , Eden , Chamberlain et al prevailed in the end .....

[blue phil]

I didnt say a single death was deserved. However, after what the yanks have done in recent years, its nice to see an american city crippled. ask those in Baghdad.

345323[/snapback]

But can't you see that it's the innocent and poor (largely) of both cities you mention who always suffer ? They aren't resonsible for anything .

Unless , of course , you hold the citizens of New Orleans directly responsible for their Governments' actions - in which case Bush was perfectly entitled to wage war on Sadaam's subjects....

[blue phil]

Likewise it would be out of order if I used the admin privs to my advantage in a discussion (i.e. edit/remove posts when it suited).

345301[/snapback]

I wish you'd tell Flopsy that .....

[Glenn]

I wish you'd tell Flopsy that .....

345372[/snapback]

He knows and whilst he has been guilty of breaking the guidlines he's supposed to enforce, as far as I'm aware he (or any other more) has never made use of the extra mod features just to win an argument.

[Modi]

its nice to see an american city crippled.

345323[/snapback]

There have been some odious comments on here in the past, but that really does take the biscuit.

[Alex Rover]

Your comparison to Hitler is an interesting one. I am sure you are aware that Britain was almost on his side, and had it not been for the working class would have probably entered some sort of coalition with him. Makes you think.

345323[/snapback]

Sorry to stray off topic but it's been a while since I've laughed out load reading this board. I just wish it hadn't been during this topic.

Andy, that's brilliant. Easily the most ignorant, ill-informed and downright wrong statement I think I've ever read, anywhere. I see they fed you the "Story of WW2 - According to Herman Goering" at school.

[adopted scouser]

its nice to see an american city crippled

Students

As for the looters, they are not scum. its human nature

Providing for your family is excused, human nature. How you feed your kids on trainers, baseball shirts and toasters mystifies me. No it doesn't, scum.

[LeChuck]

Students

Germans.

I don't actually think that, I just thought I'd throw it in and stereotype everyone that has something in common with him. Maybe being a Rovers fan has something to do with it too?

Edited September 7, 2005 by LeChuck

[thenodrog]

has never made use of the extra mod features just to win an argument.

345376[/snapback]

Extra mod features?! You mean just to win an argument Flopsy quickly dons a porkpie hat, parka, brogues and rides a Lambretta Li 150 ....... with suitable backrest, chrome wagon hub and knicker mirrors?

[thenodrog]

Here's an example from Sri Lanka 

http://www.lankalibrary.com/news/animals.htm

345058[/snapback]

Oh ffs Don! Dr Bonnie Beaver !!!!!!!!???????????? Somebody's taking the p1ss ......right?

Or in true Frank Drebble style "Hmmm Bonnie Beaver"

Edited September 8, 2005 by thenodrog

[pg]

Just remember that almost 50% of the US population didn't vote for George.

And I'm sure that the majorty of people killed/injured and affected by this disaster all vote democrat anyway.

George Bush isn't smart enough to be a genocidal tyrant. Dick Cheney though

I think George Bush is losing a lot of political capital out of this disaster... and the comments from his mother "they should be happy to stay in superdrome, its an improvement over what they had" certainly don't help.

I wonder if the establishment will now begin to criticise Bush and distance themselves from him.... whilst grooming a new folksier Republican nominee who is more down to earth.

[Shaddy]

I think George Bush is losing a lot of political capital out of this disaster... and the comments from his mother "they should be happy to stay in superdrome, its an improvement over what they had" certainly don't help.

345463[/snapback]

Surely that was not said, right ?

[Rovermatt]

I wonder if the establishment will now begin to criticise Bush and distance themselves from him.... whilst grooming a new folksier Republican nominee who is more down to earth.

345463[/snapback]

Oh dear. I hope not. You can't get much 'folksier' or 'down to earth' than Dubya.

Edited September 8, 2005 by Rovermatt

[blue phil]

I wonder if the establishment will now begin to criticise Bush and distance themselves from him.... whilst grooming a new folksier Republican nominee who is more down to earth.

345463[/snapback]

Hopefully the wonderful , intelligent Ms Condaleeza Rice . It might be a bit difficult branding her as a dumb , southern hating racist .....

[Rovermatt]

Hopefully the wonderful , intelligent  Ms Condaleeza Rice . It might be a bit difficult branding her as a dumb , southern hating racist .....

345631[/snapback]

I imagine it would be hard to brand Dubya as 'Southern-hating' also, since he is from the South.

[pg]

Surely that was not said, right  ?

345546[/snapback]

The Age

(snip)

Hurricane Katrina victims in Houston, Texas, were "underprivileged anyway" and life in the Astrodome sports arena is "working very well for them," former first lady Barbara Bush said.

The comments by the mother of President George W Bush have fueled the ire of some Americans, who see the Bush family as out-of-touch patricians.

"Almost everyone I've talked to says 'we're going to move to Houston,"' Bush said in a radio interview after visiting evacuees at the Astrodome with her husband, former president George Bush.

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this - this is working very well for them."

(snip)

She may as well have said "Let them eat cake"

Edited September 9, 2005 by pg

[American]

I find it very hard to believe that the US government deliberately held back rescue efforts to kill the poor. I've read my fair share of conspiracies but this one is up there. Despite what most people think of George W. Bush I do not believe that he is a genocidal tyrant. I think that too many people are very quick to judge the USA in this case, probably because of the Iraq war cock up. I'm no fan of Bush  but what I'm trying to say is that how could a country that stands for democracy and equality do this in full view of the world.

Andy82, are you saying that Cowboy Bush sat in the White House and when notified that a hurricane might directly hit New Orleans he sat there rubbing his hands thinking "great, we'll get rid of a few"? A tad cynical even for a student's eager mind. There is one such conspiracy theory running around that tries to say that Roosevelt during the 1930's "New Deal" to get the US out of a depression moved loads of poor people to rural states such as Iowa so that they could all be killed off every year by tornadoes. Do you subscribe to that one too? If America deserved it so do the Germans as Glenn pointed out, as do the British, French, Spanish, and Portugese for their colonial adventures plus numerous other countries that have conquered over time. You should study history a bit. The human race is not a bunch of hand-holding, peace-loving, egalitarian creatures they are a selfish, self serving, greedy bunch who will quite easily run over another one for their own self gain. 

Politicians survive by placating voters; I don't think that murder would get many of them votes.

The reasons for the delay are now turning into a childish "it's your fault" slanging match. The national government is run by the Republicans yet the state and local ones are Democrat. Each is now saying that the other should have acted first; this gives a clue as to why there was a delay, no-one had any idea what to do or who was giving out the orders.

FEMA, the agency getting the worst of it is made up of many volunteers and part timers, they are not thousands of ready professionals sitting in mess halls waiting for the next disaster. They have normal jobs, then when disaster strikes they are called by a private contractor (who won a government contract), then they have X amount of time to get to where they are supposed to go and await further orders. The only person likely to lose over this is the FEMA boss who has looked like a clown throughout. The fact that he got the job becuase he inherited it from his old boss and only got that one because he helped on Bush's 2000 election campaign with the former boss may have something to do with why he stands around sweating.

345315[/snapback]

My nomination for post of the year.

[USRoverME]

My nomination for post of the year.

345771[/snapback]

Very much agreed!

[USABlue]

1. If anywhere deserved it, it was America. Fact. You are the worlds biggest problem.

2. From the massive amount of 'small town' american press, your countries making themselves look even worse. Why are we reading all these stories about how rich white folk are demanding to be housed as refugees together, in certain areas, with certain people etc etc, whilst they don't even acknowledge half the poor people can't even get out the city? If you won't even help yourselves, why should you get help from elsewhere?

3. Dollar totals? Dont be so daft. Its americans that think in dollar totals. We are all hoping for a maximum devastation, minumum deaths. Its clear to see who is thinking in dollar totals when you look at what has and hasnt been destroyed in N.O - Note all government property seems to be fine, and the only tourist attractions showing any sort of strain are the Superdome and Convention Centre.

4. Human suffering? You think that doesnt happen elsewhere every single day? Shell have shot up half of Nigeria to get the fuel to your car. Nike exploit sweatshop workers worldwide - yet these companies are seen as trendsetters, world leaders, something to be admired, thanks to American freemarket ideals. Don't see any of you yanks whinging about that ever though. Nice to see the minute the sh*t hits the fan, Walmart and Foot Locker are raided instantly. At least there is a couple of people left in your country with their head screwed on.

5. Halliburton were given the contract for the cleanup (probably uncontested, but i havent found proof of that yet) way back in July. Alarm bells are ringing.

6. I geniunely believe, from what i have read, that there was NO INTENTION to save many of the poor in N.O. This is why it was several days before red cross etc was allowd in.

Your governments shafted you, again. Nay mind, you'll still vote for the same party next time, because you 'always do'.

345276[/snapback]

1, No one deserves this, except perhaps bigots such as yourself.

2,I can not find one ounce of sense in. What are you trying to say? You have only the media to judge events by. A media skewed in it's anti bigger than us"bias" as American Media is in sensationalism and ignoring the good. Let's face it us English have never forgiven the Yanks for throwing our tea in the Ocean and then having that bunch of ragamuffins royally kick our collective arses.

3, Dollar totals, don't be daft it's the English that think in dollar totals. Want proof? Check the Tsunami thread and see who brought up how "little" the yanks are giving. You started it.

4, Your point is mute. Yes there is suffering every day. Which Country is talking of boycotts at fuel suppliers? To protest the high fuel tax, hey how else are you going to support the "Asylum Seekers" and the like while it's own Country's citizens go without. Would you care to state that there are no British companies not doing the same, and prove it. WHo are one of the richest oil companies in the WORLD, ever heard of a little outfit call BRITISH Petroleum. Why do the English clamour for those products that are American Corporate brand then, do you yourself own NOTHING from an American based Corporation, you have NEVER eaten at McDonalds or any other Yankee Doodle franchise.

5, We need to hire the person who awarded the contract for the New Orleans clean up a whole month before the hurricane even developed, he is better than Nostradamus and could do a fantastic job predicting other unforseen disasters. Do you actually understand how this storm developed, I don't think so.

6, You "GENUINELY BELIEVE" from "WHAT YOUV'E READ" that statement sums you up in actuality. First you genuinely believe, then you disassociate yourself from your belief by claiming your beliefs come from text. The Sun would like you to subscribe and do yourself a favour, don't read any Harry Potter books you'll be scared of the dark.

Now,

A point or two of my own. 1 DO NOT judge America or it's people by what you read, or the media. To know them you have to live amongst them. They have bad and good but I will tell you what, the outpouring of support from the common man over here, the Joe Blows just like me, has brought me to tears on several occasions. I have never experienced anything like it since... well since the Tsunami. You have this country and it's people WELL misjudged. Your comments are political, as are most on here, you show your true colours, one of a narrow minded, judgemental, gullable fool who will take what ever he wants to hear as gospel and ignore the truth. As the good book say he who truly seeks the truth will find it, I fear you would not like what you find.

Point 2, I GENUINELY BELIEVE, From WHAT I'VE READ. you're are a pillock of the highest order. Now, I'll say no more on this subject. Until the next disaster of course. Don't cry or get upset I am pointing my finger only at YOU the one who typed the post. I am not judging a WHOLE NATION based on sensationlistic journalism. Try it, it could broadenyour horizons. BTW I am English, born and bred Accy lad.

[cletus]

well that`s that sorted!

[joey_big_nose]

1. If anywhere deserved it, it was America. Fact. You are the worlds biggest problem.

2. From the massive amount of 'small town' american press, your countries making themselves look even worse. Why are we reading all these stories about how rich white folk are demanding to be housed as refugees together, in certain areas, with certain people etc etc, whilst they don't even acknowledge half the poor people can't even get out the city? If you won't even help yourselves, why should you get help from elsewhere?

3. Dollar totals? Dont be so daft. Its americans that think in dollar totals. We are all hoping for a maximum devastation, minumum deaths. Its clear to see who is thinking in dollar totals when you look at what has and hasnt been destroyed in N.O - Note all government property seems to be fine, and the only tourist attractions showing any sort of strain are the Superdome and Convention Centre.

4. Human suffering? You think that doesnt happen elsewhere every single day? Shell have shot up half of Nigeria to get the fuel to your car. Nike exploit sweatshop workers worldwide - yet these companies are seen as trendsetters, world leaders, something to be admired, thanks to American freemarket ideals. Don't see any of you yanks whinging about that ever though. Nice to see the minute the sh*t hits the fan, Walmart and Foot Locker are raided instantly. At least there is a couple of people left in your country with their head screwed on.

5. Halliburton were given the contract for the cleanup (probably uncontested, but i havent found proof of that yet) way back in July. Alarm bells are ringing.

6. I geniunely believe, from what i have read, that there was NO INTENTION to save many of the poor in N.O. This is why it was several days before red cross etc was allowd in.

Your governments shafted you, again. Nay mind, you'll still vote for the same party next time, because you 'always do'.

345276[/snapback]

I'm anti bush in many ways, but that has to be the most moronic post I have ever seen on this messageboard. You consider the American administration ignorant, manipulative and vindictive. Stop for a second and consider your own post- it displays all those characteristics in abundance.

Pitiful.

[PABBY]

Check out this awesome pre- & post-hurricane photo gallery created by a (former) New Orleans resident - Click Me.