New Orleans

[BRFC4EVA]

There has been some very strange things written on this thread. Quite ridiculus sterotypes are being banded around and unfortunatly its just deflecting away from the real issue at hand here and that is the people of New Orleans. This is a natural disaster of quite huge proportions and there are 100's of 1000's of people in real danger of death, disease and injury.

Now as someone who was born and mostly raised in England, but to American(yankee) parents i didnt really have alot of time for the South. However, when this kinda thing happens all that goes out of the window, and my and my parents (especially) heartfelt sympathes go out to everyone involved down there in the deep South. The clean up opperation will be long and painful, but it is in the American's spirt to fight back and re-build New Orleans.

Comments like 'its nice to see an American city getting crippled' is quite shameful. I dont care if you think 'the war in iraq' was wrong there is no excuse. Oh and btw, you ignorant prat, 95% of the people involved are anything BUT 'yanks' but i suppose you wouldnt be intelligent enough to know anthing about that.

'Your governments shafted you, again. Nay mind, you'll still vote for the same party next time, because you 'always do'.

Yep wow, you have to go back a whole 6 years since there has been a different political party in charge of the country. More of a change then your very own Germany (how many yrs of unemployment and still you vote for the same party), but hey you wouldnt bother reseraching something like that eh?

Now the Bush administration does deserve critism for this, but remember much of new orleans local admistrations (run by democrats) fouled up just as badly. Lets try not to use as political points scoring but just concentrating on the support for the poor and needy people of New Orleans.

[RoyRover]

What has happened in New Orleans and the other southern states is such tragedy, but what upsets me more, like a lot of people have said, was the lack of movement from the Whitehouse. Bush's decision to go to a party fundraiser in San Diego I believe, beggers belief. But as so many political reporters have pointed out and it is plan for the whole world to see, the majority of those who suffered the most, were poor black people, who didn't have the money or cars to pay or drive away from the area. I'm glad to see people in the public eye, like Kanye West speaking out about Bush's total indifference to the black people of the south. This really sums up Bush.

[thenodrog]

But as so many political reporters have pointed out and it is plan for the whole world to see, the majority of those who suffered the most, were poor black people, who didn't have the money or cars to pay or drive away from the area. I'm glad to see people in the public eye, like Kanye West speaking out about Bush's total indifference to the black people of the south. This really sums up Bush.

346053[/snapback]

Well they should have voted for him shouldn't they?

[colin]

I think that there is a degree of schaudenfreude with some people over New Orleans.

For years the USA has been the global playground bully from Vietnam, to Cuba, to Korea, Chile, Grenada, Afganistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, the list goes on and on. These days we've got The Chimp justifying every thing he does with the words "freedom" and "democracy."

Cue whooooping and a holllerring

I can quite understand why some people take the attitute that the USA has been busy throwing its weight around the world for 40 years, so a bit of its own medicine (albeit via Mother Nature) is quite welcome*.

I just wish that it was called Hurricane Kyoto.

* I did say "I can quite understand why". I didn't say I agree**

** Although I do.

[American]

And Manchester United has been lording over the sporting world for years, so I hope that the city of Manchester gets hit by a giant tornado and wipes everyone out you sniviling ######.

[colin]

You are hopeless. Try sitting down with a cup of tea and digesting my post.

A nice packet of hob-nobs too.

You've got to learn to take it easy mate. We don't get tornados in Manchester. Some pretty horrible drizzle that really gets you wet.

[thenodrog]

We get em in Hoghton though! One cut a huge swathe right through Hoghton and Samlesbury in June and caused at least 50 quids worth of damage.

Edited September 12, 2005 by thenodrog

[philipl]

Simon Sharma on the impact of Katrina on America.

Apart from Andy "America deserved it" which was an absolute disgrace, nothing on here matches the intensity of angst about the failures in the South reflecting the state of America which out-poured in the New York Times yesterday.

I was also absolutely amazed at how the fourth anniversary of 9/11 passed virtually unmarked and unnoticed yesterday. It might have been different in the States but elsewhere it was virtually ignored- and I'm commenting from having read the international press.

From a European perspective, Paris, London, Moscow and other European cities had suffered from terrorism for years so 9/11 was at one level utterly more horrific but on another, just another tragic dot on the map. For Americans it was the first time they felt vulnerable at home. McVeigh being home-grown was seen as an isolated nutter who acted rather than the thousands who fantasise.

Sympathy for the US Administration has totally ebbed away:

- most of us know someone from this side of the pond who has seriously been inconvenienced or worse by the new "Homeland Security measures". All bureaucracies are stupid to a greater or less extent but it takes an American to be an absolute insensitive bonehead and American deference (whereas European anarchy would break in and some humanity enter the situation) to back it up 100%.

- unlike us Europeans, Americans don't know how to be imperialists. The military victories in Afghanistan and Iraq were awesome but all the American hang-ups about the War of Independence seem to render them clueless about what to do when they are in charge of someone else's country.

- and now in the face of a calamatous but wholly predictable natural disaster, the US has reacted with less dignity and public spiritedness and about as much deployment of civilisation and technology as Sri Lanka did in the face of the Tsunami.

- Kyoto and the UN reform might be a side show but it aint smart to be happy in isolation from the rest of the democratic first world who think America is stupid and wrong.

- Blair might be a poodle of convenience but do the American Administration need to so casually and unthinkingly humiliate him (and by extension, Britain) whenever they feel like it?

We love and support Americans but we dispare of them collectively at the moment.

[SouthAussieRover]

We love and support Americans but we dispare of them collectively at the moment.

346275[/snapback]

Is that a Royal we?

[PABBY]

Type the word "failure" into Google, but hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button instead of "Google Search"!

[Shaddy]

Type the word "failure" into Google, but hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button instead of "Google Search"!   

346400[/snapback]

Very good... wonder how long it keeps like that before a fuss is kicked up about it.

[SouthAussieRover]

What's it say because our IT folks have blocked access to the URL deeming it inappropriate for the workplace?

[Paul]

Biography of George W Bush.......who I now know has the same birthday as me.

[FourLaneBlue]

Hurricane Katrina victims in Houston, Texas, were "underprivileged anyway" and life in the Astrodome sports arena is "working very well for them," former first lady Barbara Bush said..

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this - this is working very well for them."

(snip)

She may as well have said "Let them eat cake" 

345675[/snapback]

You know...when I was reading that I thought exactly the same thing!

Some people just don't have a clue like Mrs Bush.

As for the looters...they may well have just lost their homes and all their belongings. Not trying to defend the looting but come on, let's not condemn them for nicking a box of trainers while their city is under a few foot of stagnant water. Big deal, there has just been a hurricane for crying out loud. Poor buggers need all the help they can get.

Edited September 13, 2005 by FourLaneBlue

[FourLaneBlue]

- unlike us Europeans, Americans don't know how to be imperialists. The military victories in Afghanistan and Iraq were awesome but all the American hang-ups about the War of Independence seem to render them clueless about what to do when they are in charge of someone else's country.

That's not fair though is it? The reason they may seem "clueless" is because they are, albeit in an at times hamfisted and clumsy way, attemptiong to set up these countries as self-governing democracies. Some bastions of the free world, such as West Germany and Japan, were rebuilt after the Second World War with American aid. The USA is an aggressive force on many occasions but they have been a force for good as well. Some anti-Americans won't admit this and it merely serves to leave their arguments seeming biased and one-eyed. Sure, they want to preserve their trading rights in Iraq and Afghanistan but then again that is the kind of thing on which the British Empire was built, particularly in the realm of the unnoffical British empire, covering the likes of Argentina, Chile and Egypt. I'm no particular fan of US foreign policy but I'm sure they believe they will genuinely leave the countries in a better state than they left it. What was so great about life under the Taliban and Saddam?

As for the Americans not knowing how to be imperialists, maybe they should look into their past...courtesy of wikipedia...

Former American colonial possessions

The following areas have at one time or another been under the control of the United States of America and have not been fully incorporated into the country as states.

American Samoa (1900-)

Cuba (1899-1902)

(now independent; however, Guantanamo Bay remains under the control of the U.S. military)

Dominican Republic ( occupied 1916-1924) (now independent)

Guam (1898-)

Haiti ( occupied 1915-1934)

Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (1944-1990)

(now comprising the independent states of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, and Palau; as well as one US commonwealth — the Northern Mariana Islands)

Panama Canal Zone (1903-1979) (now part of Panama)

Philippines (1898-1946) (now independent)

Puerto Rico (1898-1952) (now a US commonwealth)

U.S. Virgin Islands (1917-)

Seems Americans do know how to be imperialists after all, at least to anyone who brushes up on their history. To their credit, they are not attempting to be so now in that way.

[FourLaneBlue]

Let's face it us English have never forgiven the Yanks for throwing our tea in the Ocean and then having that bunch of ragamuffins royally kick our collective arses.

Don't be silly...the majority of English don't give a damn about what happened over two centuries ago. Most now are appalled at the disaster and there are plenty of people giving money to the relief effort. Don't let a few American-bashers using a human tragedy as an excuse to score a political point sour your view of most people. Most on here are horrified at the tragedy.

Besides, even during the American Revolution there was substantial support for the cause of the Americans among the working classes of Britain. 'No tax without representation'? Good for them...don't bloody blame them for throwing the tea into Boston harbour.

[American]

The world so hates our imperialist ways that Kuwait has donated $500 million dollars to the relief efforts as their way of saying thanks.

[dave birch]

American, I'd be a little circumspect about the "democratic" Kuwaitis giving money. Afterall, $500 mil is but chicken feed in respect to the amount of money that the US got them from the kickout of Saddam. A bit like me giving a taxi driver a $5.00 tip

[blue phil]

I think that there is a degree of schaudenfreude with some people over New Orleans.

I can quite understand why some people take the attitute that the USA has been busy throwing its weight around the world for 40 years, so a bit of its own medicine (albeit via Mother Nature) is quite welcome*.

I just wish that it was called Hurricane Kyoto.

* I did say "I can quite understand why". I didn't say I agree**

** Although I do.

346226[/snapback]

My nomination for Drink Fuelled Post of the Year award ......at least I hope it was ....

[PABBY]

The Bush Family Summer Vacation 2005

[colin]

My nomination for Drink Fuelled Post of the Year award ......at least I hope it was ....

346762[/snapback]

If you can spell "schaudenfreude" when drink-fuelled you're a better man than me.

[philipl]

ABC News reports a study which shows Katrina was intensified by global warming.

[Oklahoma]

ABC News reports a study which shows Katrina was intensified by global warming.

347177[/snapback]

Global warming?

What is that?

Does that even exist?

[blue phil]

If you can spell "schaudenfreude" when drink-fuelled you're a better man than me.

346993[/snapback]

In relation to this thread I wouldn't spell it drunk or sober .....

[joey_big_nose]

That's not fair though is it? The reason they may seem "clueless" is because they are, albeit in an at times hamfisted and clumsy way, attemptiong to set up these countries as self-governing democracies. Some bastions of the free world, such as West Germany and Japan, were rebuilt after the Second World War with American aid. The USA is an aggressive force on many occasions but they have been a force for good as well. Some anti-Americans won't admit this and it merely serves to leave their arguments seeming biased and one-eyed. Sure, they want to preserve their trading rights in Iraq and Afghanistan but then again that is the kind of thing on which the British Empire was built, particularly in the realm of the unnoffical British empire, covering the likes of Argentina, Chile and Egypt. I'm no particular fan of US foreign policy but I'm sure they believe they will genuinely leave the countries in a better state than they left it. What was so great about life under the Taliban and Saddam?

As for the Americans not knowing how to be imperialists, maybe they should look into their past...courtesy of wikipedia...

Former American colonial possessions

The following areas have at one time or another been under the control of the United States of America and have not been fully incorporated into the country as states.

American Samoa (1900-)

Cuba (1899-1902)

(now independent; however, Guantanamo Bay remains under the control of the U.S. military)

Dominican Republic ( occupied 1916-1924) (now independent)

Guam (1898-)

Haiti ( occupied 1915-1934)

Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (1944-1990)

(now comprising the independent states of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, and Palau; as well as one US commonwealth — the Northern Mariana Islands)

Panama Canal Zone (1903-1979) (now part of Panama)

Philippines (1898-1946) (now independent)

Puerto Rico (1898-1952) (now a US commonwealth)

U.S. Virgin Islands (1917-)

Seems Americans do know how to be imperialists after all, at least to anyone who brushes up on their history. To their credit, they are not attempting to be so now in that way.

346628[/snapback]

Well I would say that it is not so much that Americans do not know how to be imperialists but rather that they are not allowed to be them. If America aggressively directed government in Iraq thry would be taken apart by everybody rom Paris to Tokyo. This is the problem- In Japan and Germany it was recognised that the US needed to be given some latitude to impose a free democratc and economically active state, in Iraq the world views the US as an aggressor and any strong moves as deplorable.

This is perhaps now highlighting why UN support would have been so essential. If the UN had been in control then a tough stance could have been adopted without the undermining criticism, which works heavily for the subversive elements within Iraq, being so widely employed.

The US is increasingly in a worse and worse position, and there is no defined exit strategy. And I dont get people who gloat about it, Iraqis British and US alike are dying there.