New Orleans

[philipl]

Global warming?

What is that?

Does that even exist?    

347180[/snapback]

I hope it doesn't exist Oklahoma.

But that report is terrifying.

[salothsar]

The world so hates our imperialist ways that Kuwait has donated $500 million dollars to the relief efforts as their way of saying thanks.

346645[/snapback]

Now that is just plain silly. If you can't find a better example of a country that loves the good old US of A sit down and shut up on your unbelievabley prickly and defensive back side. It is hardly surprising little old Kuwait is willing to send a couple of bucks now is it.

Had your post stopped after the word "ways" it would make much more sense

[Flopsy]

The UN that organisation full of free and democract loving countries with great human rights records like

Lybia

China

Zimbabwe

Russia

lots of counties ending with 'stan

But lets pimp our moral authority over to them because they know better

[thenodrog]

I hope it doesn't exist Oklahoma.

But that report is terrifying.

347280[/snapback]

From that link......

"Current computer models suggest that the Arctic will be entirely ice-free during summer by the year 2070 but some scientists now believe that even this dire prediction may be over-optimistic, said Professor Peter Wadhams, an Arctic ice specialist at Cambridge University."

Isn't 2070 about the time that oil is forecast to run out too?

After millions of years on the planet Man's technology is going to spew the lot in less than 150 years!

[roversmum]

JJ's just got his driving licence (congrats, JJ). Runs out in 2058, so he'll be okay then .............

[blue phil]

I hope it doesn't exist Oklahoma.

But that report is terrifying.

347280[/snapback]

So terrifying , in fact , that the relevant powers should be discussing and putting into action the process of depopulating the planet (by peaceful means obviously )

It has been mentioned on here before that Greepeace* have estimated that the ideal population in terms of sustainability in the UK is 30 million . Maybe we should take a lead and bring about policies to ensure this in the forseeable future . No immigration , limit on size of families etc ...

I'd support such policies - but would all those on here who seem content to point the finger solely at the Yanks do so ..... ?

* Or was it the Green Party ?

Edited September 16, 2005 by blue phil

[cletus]

Has anybody noticed the media seem to have packed their bags & buggered off from the affected areas?? These f#####g @rseholes have gotten bored of the situation & moved on to their next big story.

[tmap]

From that link......

"Current computer models suggest that the Arctic will be entirely ice-free during summer by the year 2070 but some scientists now believe that even this dire prediction may be over-optimistic, said Professor Peter Wadhams, an Arctic ice specialist at Cambridge University."

Isn't 2070 about the time that oil is forecast to run out too?

After millions of years on the planet Man's technology is going to spew the lot in less than 150 years!

347309[/snapback]

No no. According to my geography and chemistry teachers, all of my school text books and all newspapers at the time, oil was going to run out in 30 years, which would be, well, today actually. Better get to the pumps for one last fill.

That means that copper must have run out in 1985 and aluminium in 1990 too.

What's more, by now we should be in an ice age, according to the scientific consensus of global cooling throughout the 70s.

"Current computer models" are still riddled with huge inconsistencies and approximations that no-one can explain. More generally, no-one has any idea why the earth's climate over the last 100,000 years has lurched terrifyingly through temperature extremes after millions of years of relative stability.

I don't wish for a moment to question Peter Wadham's credentials or to trivialise the point, but using these things to advance fascist arguments over restricting population sizes is meaningless. And linking them to particular weather events is ludicrous.

[thenodrog]

, but using these things to advance fascist arguments over restricting population sizes is meaningless. 

347931[/snapback]

I'm confused. Why is the notion of restricting population facist?

[pg]

Limiting population growth makes good sense to me.

[tmap]

I'm confused.  Why is the notion of restricting population facist?

348072[/snapback]

Well, how would you restrict it? Limits on reproduction? You'd be happy, would you, having your local council and police enforcing your birth control? Advising you to have an abortion or get hit with a prison sentence or punitive taxation if you overstep the mark? Or maybe enforced sterilisation?

[thenodrog]

Well, how would you restrict it?  Limits on reproduction?  You'd be happy, would you, having your local council and police enforcing your birth control?  Advising you to have an abortion or get hit with a prison sentence or punitive taxation if you overstep the mark?  Or maybe enforced sterilisation?

348142[/snapback]

Yes but facism is almost always (but not necessarily so) connected with extreme right wing politics, yet the most obvious case of any country enforcing a government controlled birth rate is the communist / Maoist Peoples Republic of China.

[blue phil]

Well, how would you restrict it?  Limits on reproduction?  You'd be happy, would you, having your local council and police enforcing your birth control?

348142[/snapback]

A better - and less fascistic way if you wish to talk in such silly terms - would be by financial and taxation penalties or incentives . For example a very generous child benefit for the first child , buggerall for the second , and a swift kick in the balls for the third.....

(Well maybe two of the above )

Like it or not , sooner or later measures will have to be taken .

[Tango]

Yes but facism is almost always (but not necessarily so) connected with extreme right wing politics, yet the most obvious case of any country enforcing a government controlled birth rate is the communist / Maoist Peoples Republic of China.

348260[/snapback]

Indeed, the Nazis actively encouraged women having lots of children and offered cash incentives and awards such as the Mother's Cross.

*Not wishing to get involved in the debate, just trying to prove to myself that I do remember some of the history I've been taught

[philipl]

Another outspoken attack from the scientific establishment.

Hurricanes are the smoking gun of global warming.

What is currently a minority American viewpoint.

Edited September 23, 2005 by philipl

[dave birch]

Yes but facism is almost always (but not necessarily so) connected with extreme right wing politics, yet the most obvious case of any country enforcing a government controlled birth rate is the communist / Maoist Peoples Republic of China.

348260[/snapback]

Theno, My understanding of the "one child" policy is that it only applies to one indiginous group of the many populating the PRC.

Perhaps FLB can enlighten us.

[blue phil]

Another outspoken attack from the scientific establishment.

Hurricanes are the smoking gun of global warming.

What is currently a minority American viewpoint.

348812[/snapback]

One line stands out for me in the second of the links given above ....."On the one hand, global oil demand is, for the first time in history, eclipsing global oil supply."

If that is true , then the rest of the article is just a daft point scoring exercise against Bush and co - and the US population at large for having "gas guzzling" cars ( I wonder if the article's author owns a car ..)

The real problem in years to come will be when China and India (and maybe Africa) really start to get into the globalisation economic system and up their use of the remaining oil supplies .

Taking into account the fact that politicians will never have the resolve to tackle the obvious problem of world overpopulation (instead most are encouraging the opposite viewpoint to solve relatively short term problems) , the only other solution that will not lead to war is to develop new scources of energy .

Maybe it's time for all of the world powers - not just the scapegoat America - to meet and come up with radical solutions to the problems . It's not just Bush to blame , everyone who owns a car is part of the problem - even Guardian readers.

[FourLaneBlue]

Theno, My understanding of the "one child" policy is that it only applies to one indiginous group of the many populating the PRC.

Perhaps FLB can enlighten us.

348813[/snapback]

It only applies to the Han Chinese majority who make up 95% of the country. The exceptions are the ethnic minorities. To be honest though...farmers often get away with it as they need larger families as do the rich who can have their kids born in Hong Kong (or wherever abroad) and thus they don't count.

By the way...I'd have said birth control would be an authoritarian act not facist as such. Similar words but also a wee bit different. Left/right, both are authoritarian when taken to extremes.

To be honest with China currently officially estimated as having 1.3billion but in all likelihood being somewhere around 1.6billion it's no surprise they retain the one-child policy. I've talked to many Chinese about it and most think it's a good thing as there are simply too many people.

[broadsword]

Limiting population growth makes good sense to me.

348096[/snapback]

... especially in Burnley.

[Flopsy]

  Taking into account the fact that politicians will never have the resolve to tackle the obvious problem of world overpopulation (instead most are encouraging the opposite viewpoint to solve relatively short term problems) , the only other  solution that will not lead to war is to develop new scources of energy .

  Maybe it's time for all of the world powers - not just the scapegoat America - to meet and come up with radical solutions to the problems . It's not just Bush to blame , everyone who owns a car is part of the problem - even Guardian readers.

348983[/snapback]

World population will probably be sorted by an outbreak of some nasty disease. I bet it wont be bird flu but an influenze outbreak or something similar is more and more likely each day.

As for war over oil, its more likely it'll be over that scarcer commodity, drinkable water

As for the Car owners - your right - get an LPG/Chip fat conversion or get a Hybrid

That leaves loads of oil to make plastic stuff

[blue phil]

I bet it wont be bird flu but an influenze outbreak

As for war over oil, its more likely it'll be over that scarcer commodity, drinkable water

349480[/snapback]

Isn't flu short for influenza ? Where's Dr Rich ?

You'd think by now they'd have invented cheap and easy ways of desalienating(?) sea water .

[ABBEY]

they have its called coors

[Flopsy]

[Eddie]

Isn't flu short for influenza ? Where's Dr Rich ?

  You'd think by now they'd have invented cheap and easy ways of desalienating(?) sea water .

349691[/snapback]

It is, yes.

[philipl]

Reverse osmosis- 70% of malta's water comes from it.

Its cheaper than desalienation but not that cheap.