[Archived] Andy Taylor

[rover6]

Reserve goers of the past few years, are you surprised that with our current problems with the left back position, Andy Taylor is out on loan playing (well according to all reports) for Crewe rather than getting a taste of the action?

He acquited himself well during last pre-season as a right back for the first team and I would've thought that with Gray looking suspect, McEveley's weaknesses exposed and Matteo out-of-favour, this is the perfect stage for Taylor.

Taylor's done very well during brief loan spells at Blackpool and now Crewe and at the age of 20 or so, he's not that young or inexperienced as to be any more of a risk than an unpredictable Mickey Gray, surely. I know certain people like Roversmum rate him much higher than McEveley and it appears the only reason that Jay is on the bench is because he is more experienced than Taylor - not a valid reason imo.

We have to start looking for a long-term left back and where better to start the search than on our own doorstep with Andy Taylor. I've read that some people think that he's too slow and weak to make it but I remember people saying Sergio Peter - at least, the weak bit anyway.

The performances of Sergio Peter of late has put some of our experienced players to shame of late. More youthful exuberance in the team would be a plus imo.

Edited November 5, 2006 by rover6

[Paul Mellelieu]

You've never seen him play unlike Hughes and his staff who've seen him week in week out. When and if he's ready for the top flight he'll play. If he's not good enough he'll fund himself at somewhere like Blackpool where the last player you championed ended up.

[den]

Hmm, Taylor is at Crewe because he needs to prove that he can put in exceptional performances at that level. He did OK at Blackpool, but wasn't outstanding as you would expect him to be, if he were good enough to mark players like Ronaldo, Lennon, SWP, etc,etc.

Quite simply, I don't see that Peters' performances have put many to shame. He's done OK as a sub, but done little as a starter.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Agree on Peter, Den.

[rover6]

Hmm, Taylor is at Crewe because he needs to prove that he can put in exceptional performances at that level. He did OK at Blackpool, but wasn't outstanding as you would expect him to be, if he were good enough to mark players like Ronaldo, Lennon, SWP, etc,etc.

Sorry but Gray is not good enough to mark Ronaldo and Co and McEveley is not good enough to mark Eddie Lewis let alone the Premiership stars. Aaron Mokoena is not up to competing with Gavin McCann.

I have not seen much of Taylor at all but have read reserve reports avidly and Taylor has nearly always been one of the more impressive of the players. I just wonder if now would not be a good time to give him his deserved chance with all the other competitors foundering.

I have, however, seen enough of Jay McEveley to know that he is way out of his depth in the Prem at left back.

You've never seen him play unlike Hughes and his staff who've seen him week in week out. When and if he's ready for the top flight he'll play.

Hughes has recently accused Arsene Wenger of unfairly failing to give youngsters a chance with first team football (when talking about Bentley). If Hughes can accuse Wenger of that - it's only fair to analyse his record. The cream does nots alway rise to the top due to managers' insecurity and consequent plumping for the 'safe' option of experienced players.

I would argue that Hughes has shown himself to be overly conservative when it comes to giving young players a chance. With Gamst performing dreadfully for a while, it is strange that Peter has not been used more.

Edited November 5, 2006 by rover6

[den]

Sorry but Gray is not good enough to mark Ronaldo and Co and McEveley is not good enough to mark Eddie Lewis let alone the Premiership starts.

I have not seen much of Taylor at all but have read reserve reports avidly and Taylor has nearly always been the most impressive of the players. I just wonder if now would not be a good time to see if he will sink or swim.

I have, however, seen enough of Jay McEveley to know that he is way out of his depth in the Prem at left back.

Whether Gray or McEvely are good enough, has no bearing whatsoever on Andy Taylors' abilities.

[rover6]

Whether Gray or McEveley are good enough has a bearing on whether Andy Taylor should be given a chance, though.

What is the message being sent out to the reserves and academy?. Mediocrity will be tolerated as long as you're experienced...?

I am more than willing to hear the views of people who have seen Taylor play regularly for the reserves. However, in all that I've read and seen, I cannot see why Taylor is not at least on the bench in the current left back crisis. Hughes has obviously ear-marked him as having potential - hence he's been involved in first team squads and even played for the first team for a few games during last pre-season.

Call me an upstart but I don't believe that managers are always right in their choice of when to play youth players. Imo, that discretion is warped by a unfounded fear that the young player will mess up. Hughes has accused Wenger of that over Bentley, and I accuse Hughes of the same.

We should be turning to the best youth players - not to the experienced players who have consistently proven that they're not to be relied upon.

Edited November 5, 2006 by rover6

[ABBEY]

hughes out sturrock in

[RevidgeBlue]

Quite simply, I don't see that Peters' performances have put many to shame. He's done OK as a sub, but done little as a starter.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's put many to shame but I would say Peter's performed a lot better in terms of his all round play than MGP when he's been on the pitch.

It's still a difficult call though because even when he's playing poorly there's always the possibility that MGP will magic up a wonder goal out of nothing.

[pick32]

pedersen hasnt lost any of his game he is still as good as he was last season when he is on the ball. But for everyone who goes and watches the rovers matches they will see that the reason he hasnt been scoring goals and getting assists lately is because gray goes on the stupidest runs ever n he cant get back in time so pedersen is practicaly our left back.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Rover6 you're embarrassing yourself, why not give it a break?

Whilst Hughes has made mistakes - show me a manager who hasn't, he gets most things right and as I said have you ever seen this lad play?

On the omeny Rev, you never know if MGP is going to change the game. You don't think that when Peter is on the pitch. Not yet anyway.

[Jan]

pedersen hasnt lost any of his game he is still as good as he was last season when he is on the ball.

Which is cr*p.

Pedersen's been toss when Lucas Neill's played behind him as well as when Gray has. The common factor in the general cr*pness is Gamst, not the left back. Last year the goals covered for a basic lack of everything else. Take those away and he HAS nothing else.

[FourLaneBlue]

Not sure why rover6 is getting so much grief, much of what he says is spot on. We will never know if youngsters can cut it if they are never given a chance. If they are not being given a chance because the first-team players are doing the business then fair enough. If, however, the 'established' players are playing poorly that what is the harm in giving a youngster a chance?

[den]

Not sure why rover6 is getting so much grief, much of what he says is spot on. We will never know if youngsters can cut it if they are never given a chance. If they are not being given a chance because the first-team players are doing the business then fair enough. If, however, the 'established' players are playing poorly that what is the harm in giving a youngster a chance?

The harm could be that the younger players aren't actually as good as the established players, even when the established players are going through a bad patch.

You always get this argument when results aren't going well. Throwing youngsters who have been nowhere the squad, at the problem doesn't work.

Now if there are a few Mike England's or Fred Pickerings around Brockhall somewhere, then fair enough.

[Neil Weaver]

Just a slight tangent to Andy Taylor.

I was watching the 2005/6 season DVD a few days ago, the extended highlights of the MU game at Old Trafford. That was Gray's first game 'in from the cold' and who was the right winger for MU that day? Aye, Ronaldo. I know that doesn't mean Ronaldo will do nowt next week but Gray's come up against him before, and even if he does get taken to the cleaners on Sat, it might not have the same psychological damage it would on a youngster.

[West Sussex Rover]

You've never seen him play unlike Hughes and his staff who've seen him week in week out. When and if he's ready for the top flight he'll play. If he's not good enough he'll fund himself at somewhere like Blackpool where the last player you championed ended up.

This is the thing that bothers me. No we dont see what MH's has but if he keeps picking Gray ahead if our youngsters, were gonna end up consistantly wasting performances were going to loose in anyway because of the rubbish thats clogging up our left side of midfield atm.

I say give the youth a chance, i mean looking at Taylor. Id say he has earned his chance as much as Gray or McEveley.

One thing i would say about Gray and Neil when they play on the left is they have a habbit of playing the ball to Savage as apposed to Gamst, and i think this might be part of why his form has dipped.

What it comes down to in my opinion, is Mark Hughes maybe not spending money that wisely in the summer (as were yet waiting for results from summer signings) and we have blatent gaps forming in defence / midfield. Ok ok i know this is because of injuries but part of being a premier league manager is having back up plans, and playing the axe in midfield or defence when your lacking in fit players is not the answer...

I think Mark Hughes has got some serious work and thinking to do between now and the end of the next transfer window as what we have at the moment obviously isnt cutting the mustard!

[stuwilky]

Having seen Taylor a few times I would not be confident at all with him starting. He looks a prospect, but not as good as we currently have in the first team.

NB - Please note, Id love to be wrong.

[Eddie]

This is the thing that bothers me. No we dont see what MH's has but if he keeps picking Gray ahead if our youngsters, were gonna end up consistantly wasting performances were going to loose in anyway because of the rubbish thats clogging up our left side of midfield atm.

I say give the youth a chance, i mean looking at Taylor. Id say he has earned his chance as much as Gray or McEveley.

Why is that? As for not playing the ball to Gamst, as he has no pace there is no point playing him the ball unless he is in a position to cross or shoot when you actually play the ball. It makes much more sense to give it to Savage who can then redistribute the ball.

[rover6]

I know that doesn't mean Ronaldo will do nowt next week but Gray's come up against him before, and even if he does get taken to the cleaners on Sat, it might not have the same psychological damage it would on a youngster.

Which is fair enough but the consensus is from nearly all the guys who report back from reserve games on here (Roversmum, Waggy etc) Jay McEveley is an inferior left back to Andy Taylor. In which case, I can't understand why McEveley is currently second choice left back - unless Hughes simply favours experience over promise.

I guess Taylor will get his chance if he continues to perform for Crewe. Last year McEveley and Gallagher did quite well on loan and Hughes has involved them this season, so I'm sure Taylor's turn will come.

In the meantime, we have to put up with Gray regaling the world with his defensive talents. (Incidentally, I don't think Gray is that bad. He's a bit rusty since being ditched for a while).

[stuwilky]

Which is fair enough but the consensus is from nearly all the guys who report back from reserve games on here (Roversmum, Waggy etc) Jay McEveley is an inferior left back to Andy Taylor.

I dont recall waggy ever saying that on the grounds of actually seeing him, just in his unrelenting campaign for kids to be given a match. I dont even recall mum saying it!

My opinion certainly differs to that, I dont actually think either of them are up to it.

[roversmum]

Sadly, because of illness, I have been unable to attend Reserve matches this season but hope to be back for them by the spring!

[Tris]

So mum's not seen the reserves all season (get well soon etc), Waggy's not been seen or heard of since the World Cup, but armchair boy knows better than Mark Hughes based on their match reports from the reserves.

Speaks volumes about the lack of knowledge which is behind some of the rubbish which can be read on this messageboard.

[rover6]

You always get this argument when results aren't going well. Throwing youngsters who have been nowhere the squad, at the problem doesn't work.

I know I harp on about this but I strongly believe that the academy system in Premier League clubs is not working efficiently because there is not a systematic effort to bring players through. And it's not just me - Mark Hughes has questioned the approach at Arsenal that did not give Bentley time to flourish. Imo the players who have reached a consistent level of excellent performance for the reserves should by rights be integrated into the first team and given first team appearances as soon as possible. This doesn't mean throwing them in unconditionally but using sub appearances, low profile games, lost causes, dead rubbers to give them a taste and see how they take to it and take it from there.

Leave a player in the reserves or on loan for too long and they're progress stagnates as their hopes of ever making it at Rovers fade.

At the moment, most efforts to bring youth players through are not concerted but arbitrary results of injury crises. Ultimately, you don't know if a player has the capacity to be a Prem footballer until they're given a chance - but, the argument goes, they're too inexperienced to be put in. But how do they get the experience if they're held back because they're inexperienced....?

You only have to look at specific cases to see how the academy - first team conduit is failing. Can you believe that but for a loan spell at Sunderland where Stuart Downing got an opportunity to show off his fantastic ability, he would have left Boro on a free? His contract was expiring and was only hastily renewed after he'd mesmerised the Sunderland faithful with some great performances and Steve McClaren had an "oh, he's quite good then" moment and rescued the club millions of pounds, signing Downing up on a long-term deal.

There's too many over-paid and very mediocre players in the Premiership who happily occupy starting berths at the expense of young British talent in the smug knowledge that they have that priceless quality that makes them supposedly near infallible - experience.

Sadly, because of illness, I have been unable to attend Reserve matches this season but hope to be back for them by the spring!

Thanks for backing me up mum! Not...

Do get well soon.

Edited November 6, 2006 by rover6

[Presty On Tour]

does anyone konow what gresko is up to these days and does he fancy a game this saturday?

[West Sussex Rover]

Why is that? As for not playing the ball to Gamst, as he has no pace there is no point playing him the ball unless he is in a position to cross or shoot when you actually play the ball. It makes much more sense to give it to Savage who can then redistribute the ball.

If your not going to play the ball to Gamst then whats the point in playing him...

Thing i have noticed in the games i have watched this season is Savage has a tendency to try and get the ball to either Bentley across the other side or Tugay, and never normally tried to play Gamst into a better position...

Would be nice to see this happen.

I think my main concern is the lack of youth team players being given a chance of late and the lack of quality coming through...