[Archived] Andy Taylor

[FourLaneBlue]

The harm could be that the younger players aren't actually as good as the established players, even when the established players are going through a bad patch.

True but we will never know if they aren't given a chance. I'd like to see them more involved with squads and being named as subs. It's the only way we can increase squad depth without splashing out.

It's a while ago but we lost Shay Given through never giving him a stint in the first team, as well as James Beattie. Both could have been playing for us for years and have saved us a fortune in transfer fees. Recently, Neill Danns is a part of the Birmingham squad.

It's never easy but if players show some potential then it makes sense to blood them and preferably one at a time. Our regular starters have been two games a week for most of this season and we seem to be feeling it a little.

EDIT - It's been said that we will only be bringing in players that can go straight into the team. Well...if so then we will have to rely on youngsters to build up the squad anyway.

Edited November 6, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[West Sussex Rover]

True but we will never know if they aren't given a chance. I'd like to see them more involved with squads and being named as subs. It's the only way we can increase squad depth without splashing out.

It's a while ago but we lost Shay Given through never giving him a stint in the first team, as well as James Beattie. Both could have been playing for us for years and have saved us a fortune in transfer fees. Recently, Neill Danns is a part of the Birmingham squad.

It's never easy but if players show some potential then it makes sense to blood them and preferably one at a time. Our regular starters have been two games a week for most of this season and we seem to be feeling it a little.

Couldnt agree more!!

[FourLaneBlue]

Hmmm...with Rover6 and Rover The Moon on my side how can I possibly be wrong? You don't see many people disagreeing with them!

[West Sussex Rover]

Hmmm...with Rover6 and Rover The Moon on my side how can I possibly be wrong? You don't see many people disagreeing with them!

Its all good!!

[Billy Castell]

How are our academy teams doing? Have they done well over the last few years, or badly? I wonder as perhaps some changes may need to be made to the youth set up so we can bring on players capable of achieving a first team place. The last real regulars we had from the youth team were Duff and Dunn.

[Presty On Tour]

How are our academy teams doing? Have they done well over the last few years, or badly? I wonder as perhaps some changes may need to be made to the youth set up so we can bring on players capable of achieving a first team place. The last real regulars we had from the youth team were Duff and Dunn.

peter came through the academy, he isn't a regular starter i know but has played well in most games he has featured in.

[West Sussex Rover]

How are our academy teams doing? Have they done well over the last few years, or badly? I wonder as perhaps some changes may need to be made to the youth set up so we can bring on players capable of achieving a first team place. The last real regulars we had from the youth team were Duff and Dunn.

Didnt Duff come from Celtic in Ireland... He wasnt a Youth player was he? Didnt come through the youth system anyway...

Edited November 6, 2006 by Rover The Moon

[den]

He was brought from Ireland by Dalglish and became part of the youth team before the academy was set up.

As for the academies, I'm yet to be convinced that they bring anyone through, that wouldn't have come through under the old youth set up.

Did England, Pickering, Newton, Clayton, Douglas need an academy?

[stuwilky]

Didnt Duff come from Celtic in Ireland... He wasnt a Youth player was he? Didnt come through the youth system anyway...

This is painful.

[den]

This is painful.

[bob fleming]

Didnt Duff come from Celtic in Ireland... He wasnt a Youth player was he? Didnt come through the youth system anyway...

Celtic in Ireland?! Didn't play for the Youth team? Wasn't a Youth player? Such a short sentence, so much rubbish. Which is an improvement on the paragraphs you normally churn out.

Hopefully Taylor will get his chance at some stage. At the end of the day you've got to go with Hughes and his team though. UEFA qualified coaches all of them. You'd think they'd know when they see a player who is ready to make the step up.

In the meantime we'll have to disregard the coaching staff at Rovers and have to listen to a couple of members of this messageboard who get to a game once every blue moon. Out of interest rover6 and Rover The Moon when did you last see Taylor play?

[FourLaneBlue]

As for the academies, I'm yet to be convinced that they bring anyone through, that wouldn't have come through under the old youth set up.

Don't really see how they are much different. Other than better facilities, more money spent on it (although I'm not sure if we do spend all that proportionally more of our income on youth now than we did in the past) and having an actual center for the youth players it is more or less the same system. Players are signed, receive training and either make it or don't make it.

The only real change seems to be that players are brought in from further abroad than before. Whereas even a decade ago anyone from outside the British Isles was a rarity.

[West Sussex Rover]

Celtic in Ireland?! Didn't play for the Youth team? Wasn't a Youth player? Such a short sentence, so much rubbish. Which is an improvement on the paragraphs you normally churn out.

Hopefully Taylor will get his chance at some stage. At the end of the day you've got to go with Hughes and his team though. UEFA qualified coaches all of them. You'd think they'd know when they see a player who is ready to make the step up.

In the meantime we'll have to disregard the coaching staff at Rovers and have to listen to a couple of members of this messageboard who get to a game once every blue moon. Out of interest rover6 and Rover The Moon when did you last see Taylor play?

Yes Duff played for Leicester Celtic ,St. Kevin's Boys and Lourdes Celtic in Ireland...!

Oh here we are, back to the, when did you last see bla play... God how boring and predictable you are!!

[jim mk2]

Did Pickering, Newton, Clayton, Douglas need an academy?

They came from the best academy of all : the back alleys of the towns and cities of Lancashire before motor cars forced kids off the streets.

Sad fact is footballers have to be "coached" these days. The likes of those four never needed coaching because they had all the skills by the time they signed for Rovers as schoolboys.

Not many "street" footballers around in recent years: Rooney is a throwback to 40 years ago and Gascoigne another.

[LDRover]

I know I harp on about this but I strongly believe that the academy system in Premier League clubs is not working efficiently because there is not a systematic effort to bring players through. And it's not just me - Mark Hughes has questioned the approach at Arsenal that did not give Bentley time to flourish. Imo the players who have reached a consistent level of excellent performance for the reserves should by rights be integrated into the first team and given first team appearances as soon as possible. This doesn't mean throwing them in unconditionally but using sub appearances, low profile games, lost causes, dead rubbers to give them a taste and see how they take to it and take it from there.

Leave a player in the reserves or on loan for too long and they're progress stagnates as their hopes of ever making it at Rovers fade.

At the moment, most efforts to bring youth players through are not concerted but arbitrary results of injury crises. Ultimately, you don't know if a player has the capacity to be a Prem footballer until they're given a chance - but, the argument goes, they're too inexperienced to be put in. But how do they get the experience if they're held back because they're inexperienced....?

You only have to look at specific cases to see how the academy - first team conduit is failing. Can you believe that but for a loan spell at Sunderland where Stuart Downing got an opportunity to show off his fantastic ability, he would have left Boro on a free? His contract was expiring and was only hastily renewed after he'd mesmerised the Sunderland faithful with some great performances and Steve McClaren had an "oh, he's quite good then" moment and rescued the club millions of pounds, signing Downing up on a long-term deal.

There's too many over-paid and very mediocre players in the Premiership who happily occupy starting berths at the expense of young British talent in the smug knowledge that they have that priceless quality that makes them supposedly near infallible - experience.

Thanks for backing me up mum! Not...

Do get well soon.

You put your point(s) quite eloquently and put forward a decent argument but how many players let go by the academies actually go on and prove that decision ultimately wrong?

I can think of no Rovers players that have done for a kick off, and there's no way whatsoever that David Bentley would be getting a starting place in the current Arsenal side.

What you have to ask is, regardless of the system, are the players good enough for the first team? You'd have to say that the answer is, more often than not, no.

Edited November 6, 2006 by LDRover

[Al]

Predictable because he is right RTM. Your posts are beginning to irritate again. Time to use the 'ignore' function once more.

[West Sussex Rover]

Having said that, they will never develop into a player who can handle first team footie if they dont get the chance... Maybe you can tell in the Reserves / Acadamy if a player is or is not going to be good enough for first team, but surely somebody has in the last few years.

Its frightening how we were producing some of the best youngsters a few years ago and now there is pretty much nothing coming through.

Edit: Freedom of speech is a b*tch isnt it... If you dont like, dont read... Its sad when someone uses intimidation to make a point...

Edited November 6, 2006 by Rover The Moon

[bob fleming]

Yes Duff played for Leicester Celtic ,St. Kevin's Boys and Lourdes Celtic in Ireland...!

Never heard of 'em. At what age was he? 14? It's like saying Rovers bought a player of Langho Juniors or Ozzy St Mary's.

Oh here we are, back to the, when did you last see bla play... God how boring and predictable you are!!

I take it you've never actually seen Taylor play then? Which doesn't help your arguement does it. The fact that you've never seen him play and Hughes etc see him on a day to day basis clearly doesn't place you in a better position to make a judgement.

Or maybe it does, maybe I'm losing the plot.

[West Sussex Rover]

Never heard of 'em. At what age was he? 14? It's like saying Rovers bought a player of Langho Juniors or Ozzy St Mary's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Duff

I havent seen Taylor yet, but the point i am trying to make is something obviously isnt working at the moment and all i want to see is our youth's players given more of a chance then they are currently.

Some players arent doing the stuff in our squad at the moment consistently so whats the harm in looking into other options...?

Edit: Oh and Damien was 17 when he joined us...

Edited November 6, 2006 by Rover The Moon

[Ste B]

Predictable because he is right RTM. Your posts are beginning to irritate again. Time to use the 'ignore' function once more.

We've just had this post reported because its containing rudeness... by Rover the Moon..

[FourLaneBlue]

What you have to ask is, regardless of the system, are the players good enough for the first team? You'd have to say that the answer is, more often than not, no.

Think you may be expecting too much if you expect them to go straight into the first team. John Williams said that the strategy in future was supposed to be buying only players that can go straight into the first team whereas the squad is be bolstered by some younger players.

We're not often going to get a Dunn or a Duff but we can see in players like Gallagher and Peter that we can still bring players through that are squad players who can be called upon when need be.

The only recent signing of Hughes that isn't either a youngster (Bentley, Brown, Jeffers) or can be put straight into the team (Benni, Roberts, Ooijer, Nonda) is Stephane Henchoz. It seems as if he was brought in as an emergency replacement for Todd who seems to be unwelcome in the plans of Hughes, persona non grata I would say if I was being pretentious.

[West Sussex Rover]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ste B @ Nov 6 2006, 12:33 ) 457975[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

We've just had this post reported because its containing rudeness... by Rover the Moon..

Oh thats very professional, well done!

Edit: Thought i was on BRFCS not Rivals!!

Edited November 6, 2006 by Rover The Moon

[James No. 7]

They came from the best academy of all : the back alleys of the towns and cities of Lancashire before motor cars forced kids off the streets.

Sad fact is footballers have to be "coached" these days. The likes of those four never needed coaching because they had all the skills by the time they signed for Rovers as schoolboys.

Not many "street" footballers around in recent years: Rooney is a throwback to 40 years ago and Gascoigne another.

That's probably the reason why the South American and African nations do so well in the youth tournaments: more often than not their players have experienced a significant amount of street football. It hasn't translated to success in the World Cup for Africa (probably due to lack of development of the game in general), but it has paid off for Brazil and Argentina. Europe does a lot of catching up at the senior level due to the general affluence of their nations; they can wait on footballers to develop.

[jim mk2]

Todd who seems to be unwelcome in the plans of Hughes, persona non grata I would say if I was being pretentious.

Not pretentious at all : shows you have a certain je ne sais quoi

[speeeeeeedie]

Academies rely on the strength of talent they bring into the club. You can have all the facilities in the world but if the players using them are not up to scratch in the first place it's pointless. There is some recent research saying that players kept on after they've finished their academy years more than likely played more unsupervised football (see street football) growing up than the ones that got released. This backs up some arguments.

Rovers find it hard to attract the top tier of youth player because of who we are; Dunn was easy because he was a local, as was Beattie. Duff is one of a long list of Irish players who started to trickle into the youth system once Jack Walker's money came around. After that, or even before, our youth set up hasn't been the best.