[Archived] Blackburn Rovers Independent Supporters Asscn

[den]

Very quick question - do you have to be a fully paid up member to attend Thursday's meeting? I did want to attend the launch a couple of weeks ago, but Child Care committments scuppered that!

360687[/snapback]

I'm sure you will be able to join on the night.

[Blackpool_Rover]

Hoping to make it on thurs...where is the waters edge?

[den]

Hoping to make it on thurs...where is the waters edge?

360692[/snapback]

There's a map Here

It's behind the Albion Mill, just off Livesey Branch Road. Half way down the hill, going towards Ewood, turn left, then right into the Albion Mill car park.

Waters edge is next to the canal.

Is that map readable?

Edited November 14, 2005 by den

[cletus]

Hoping to make it on thurs...where is the waters edge?

Blackpool Rover...just go up Livesey Branch rd (hill nr mc Donalds) & turn right where it dog-legs. Waters edge (sams bar) is at the end on the right (just before the canal bridge) Plenty of parking space there.

Did some-one say you can join BRISA on the night? If so, i`ll bring my wonga.

[den]

Did some-one say you can join BRISA on the night? If so, i`ll bring my wonga.

360702[/snapback]

Bring your wonga!

[Paul]

Frankly, they do not need to know the views of the highly committed, you guys would still turn up if we were in the Unibond league.

360676[/snapback]

I very much hope we won't be taking the views of the highly committed to JW and TF. The committed simply want to see the ground full as do JW and TF so it wouldn't be much of a discussion.

I hope over time the BRISA committee, who are all highly committed, will be able to represent the views of those who have yet to be certified!

What impresses me is the committment shown by John Williams and Tom Finn. With their leadership the committment surely must run right through the club. The need is to demonstrate that committment to the fan bas and turn the doubters into believers. Communication, communication, communication............never read the Guardian in my life

[stuwilky]

Not sure I buy your logic there. You cannot assume that a self-selecting group, i.e. paid up members, will be representative of the entire Rovers fan base. That would only be the case if BRISA members were randomly selected.

I would think it fair to say that paid up members will NOT be representative of the entire fan base as they are much more likely to be the keener, more committed fans.  As countless threads on this board have shown, the keener fans simply cannot comprehend why everyone else isn't like them and turns up to ewood rain or shine, "Cheaper prices, what more can the club do?"

For BRISA to be fully repreentative, it will need to make great efforts to reach out to the less committed and at least ascertain their views.  Otherwise, the meetings with the club will be in danger of just being a collective head-shaking session as to the uselessness of the Blackburn public.

The oft-quoted response of, "Well, if you think you can do better then sign up and get on t'committee" misses the point that most people either hate putting themselves in the limelight, and that many of our fans aren't committed enough to put themselves through such an ordeal. By definition, such a response is "normal" as is applies to the vast majority.

360666[/snapback]

EIT, You are 100% spot on in most of what you say. Apart from the last paragraph. There are people who got this thing off the ground who do not want to stand for the committee at the first round of elections (at least 2). A number of the people on the committee also dont want to put themselves "in the limelight". Yes there are some of the more opinionated posters on the board, but there are also some less so.

From a personal point of view I am happy to take criticisms on board, what I hate to see happening in any walk of life is people who sit on the sidelines happy to heckle and criticise, but without offering any better solutions.

[Exiled in Toronto]

EIT, if you have ideas that help make BRISA more representative than it currently is, then contact them and put your ideas forward. That isn't meant to be a nasty reply, just a realistic suggestion.

As Paul has said, we have some ideas how to widen the member base and in good time, we will put those ideas into operation. You might be surprised though, to see how BRISA already has a considerable cross section of fans.

Remember, BRISA only launched just over a month ago. A lot of work went into that launch. At the moment we are trying to put all our energies into getting the right structures into place, to ensure that the right people are in the right positions so that BRISA can work as fluently as possible.

360679[/snapback]

Den, not everyone wants to get involved with committees, I spend far too much of my professional life doing so. I was merely trying to offer a generic piece of advice on some of the pitfalls of taking on the burden of representing the views of others.

I am still not clear if BRISA is serious about representing the veiws of the vast majority who haven't and never will sign up. The posts of some of the committee lead me to believe it will be inclusive, the posts of others definitely send out signals of being exclusively for its members or even the tiny minority who would willingly consider being on the committee.

If becoming an activist is a pre-requisite for any opinion being considered, then BRISA will inevitably represent the views of people either committed enough or of a certain personality type to do so. I am not saying that is right or wrong, just that clarity now will prevent a lot of frustration all round down the line.

If you don't want unsolicited views from committee-averse fans, delete this thread and have it on the BRISA site with a members-only password.

[den]

Sorry EIT, I don't know where you're coming from.

No-one asked you to get involved with a committee. Simply said if you've got some suggestions, then email them through.

Nor did anyone say that you had to be an activist to have your views considered. Again, email those through.

Who says we don't want "unsolicited views from committee-averse fans"?

Can you point to a post that says BRISA is exclusively for it's members?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Den, I want BRISA to succeed and I don't think I can do a better job, but let me have one last go at this then I'll shut up.

Almost every post on this thread that isn't of the "Great, I've already sent my fiver" kind has generated a response from a committee member - mainly politely but sometimes a bit touchy - suggesting that the poster either put themselves up for the committee, sign up for membership or e-mail BRISA, which are all fair enough in the early days of trying to boost membership.

The trouble is that this is also the time when many people will be making up their minds about BRISA, and it is easy to interpret those recruitment messages as also being indicative as to BRISA's remit.

The point I am trying and struggling to make is that the vast majority of current fans and stay aways will remain the silent majority who will never e-mail BRISA anything. I think a group taking on the mantle that BRISA has set itself will need to be extremely proactive in reaching out and soliciting views from the silent types. If it doesn't, then I think it will struggle to meet the objectives that the founders have set for it. The reason that politicians get out knocking on doors come election time is that they can't rely on there postbag for keeping the finger on the pulse.

I have no specific suggestions, just some feedback on the message that I think is coming across, intended or not.

Maybe it's just me and it's crystal clear to everyone else.

[SouthAussieRover]

I've looked at it like this.

It's 5 pounds for membership.

I'll see what they do over the first year and if I perceive that BRISA is of little value I won't be renewing.

[Billinge End Blue]

EIT

I think you are making your point very lucidly and those involved in the BRISA committee or BRISA activists will have to continue to make a real effort to be inclusive and open, especially now they are endorsing the priorities of JW and TF.

They have no real way of making themselves heard or being readily represented by BRISA but surely regularly attracting the 'fairweather fan' is our best hope of improving attendances at Ewod Park?

[stuwilky]

The point I am trying and struggling to make is that the vast majority of current fans and stay aways will remain the silent majority who will never e-mail BRISA anything. I think a group taking on the mantle that BRISA has set itself will need to be extremely proactive in reaching out and soliciting views from the silent types. If it doesn't, then I think it will struggle to meet the objectives that the founders have set for it. The reason that politicians get out knocking on doors come election time is that they can't rely on there postbag for keeping the finger on the pulse. 

360762[/snapback]

EIT, You are spot on, as said earlier by someone (perhaps not in a reply to yourself, or even at all!) one of the ideas suggested by the people who came to the opening night. And I should clarify that it was these people who suggested what BRISA's priorities should be. was that information needed gathering as to why people didnt go to Ewood. That is obviously not something BRISA members will be able to answer in the main, however we do intend to have a damn good bash at finding out.

[den]

EIT, with your last post, I have no problem. Fully agree.

Your first posts, to me, suggested that BRISA had NO remit.

[Exiled in Toronto]

EIT, with your last post, I have no problem.  Fully agree.

Your first posts, to me, suggested that BRISA had NO remit.

360779[/snapback]

Which of course is the problem communicating via e-mail/messageboard - misconceptions are rife. I've been trying to be helpful in these posts yet come over as being critical from the sidelines.

In the same vein, I would respectfully suggest that BRISA needs to pay extra special attention to how its communications come over in its early days, and that the goal of signing up members for critical mass and credibility with Topsy and Tim doesn't conflict with the goal of encouraging an apathetic mass of supporters to believe that BRISA will in fact be working on all their behalfs, members or not.

This is the last post from this apathetic fan on the subject

[Guest Vinjay]

Seeing as people on here get criticised for giving their opinion its hardly surprising people prefer to stay silent. As for representing the views of all Blackburn fans Im sure thats your intention. However my view is that BRISA should not be independant from the club therefore I haven't been represented at all and as you said BRISA considers the view of non members to be important. At some point members are going to argue over an issue so your aim honourable as it may be is impossible to accomplish. Perhaps it should be modified slightly in my view.

[Ste B]

BRISA by its very title is an independant supporters association, and to fairly represent the fans in my view it should remain independant.

HOWEVER, unlike many ISA's, and despite advice from other ISA's, at this stage BRISA is trying to maintain a very close working relationship with the club. Hopefully we will have the best of both worlds, independance so BRISA can say what the fans think, and a relationship with the club that allows us to discuss things at a high level..

[stuwilky]

Seeing as people on here get criticised for giving their opinion its hardly surprising people prefer to stay silent. As for representing the views of all Blackburn fans Im sure thats your intention. However my view is that BRISA should not be independant from the club therefore I haven't been represented at all and as you said BRISA considers the view of non members to be important. At some point members are going to argue over an issue so your aim honourable as it may be is impossible to accomplish. Perhaps it should be modified slightly in my view.

360786[/snapback]

Out of interest Vinjay, what purpose would a supporters association organised by the club have?

And how does your "do not oppose the club at any costs" stance fit in with your stance on the Walker Trust which you have made one or two references to in the past?

The two views seem to sit slightly ill at ease to be honest.

[Guest Vinjay]

A supporters group run by the club would keep fans in line rather than having the risk of supporters rebelling and in the worst case scenario protesting to the point of boycotting matches. As for the Walkers they clearly have no wish to be part of the club therefore I would have no problem opposing them. Have you tried to speak with a trustee or the Walkers yet? If so I guess they declined being the invisible owners that they are. I have no problem with the Walkers keeping a low profile but the occasional statement of intent isn't too much to ask.

[MCMC1875]

How could a 'club run supporters group' be independent by definition?

[Guest Vinjay]

A club run group wouldn't be idependant from the club though would it?.

[Paul]

As for representing the views of all Blackburn fans Im sure thats your intention. However my view is that BRISA should not be independant from the club therefore I haven't been represented at all and as you said BRISA considers the view of non members to be important.

360786[/snapback]

If you explain the logic to me I'd be happy to argue your corner but at present I don't understand your view. I don't agree with your view but if you would like it represented I'll happily do so but I'll need to understand it first.

A supporters group run by the club would keep fans in line rather than having the risk of supporters rebelling and in the worst case scenario protesting to the point of boycotting matches.

But the whole point is not that the club wants to keep the fans in line, the club wants and/or needs to understand why so many fans chose to stay away. BRISA first came about because of the concerns of a group that attendances were dropping and there seemed to be a wedge being driven between the support and the club.

As for boycotting games? At the launch night I stated my view as roughly "I'm not a campaigning individual, if we ever have to take to the streets of Blackburn we wil have failed before the protest begins." Mark Longden, IMUSA, suggested we might all one day be on the streets of London protesting with thousands of other clubs supporters for the good of the game. Now that could be a different proposition.

[Paul]

Which of course is the problem communicating via e-mail/messageboard - misconceptions are rife.  I've been trying to be helpful in these posts yet come over as being critical from the sidelines.

In the same vein, I would respectfully suggest that BRISA needs to pay extra special attention to how its communications come over in its early days, and that the goal of signing up members for critical mass and credibility with Topsy and Tim doesn't conflict with the goal of encouraging an apathetic mass of supporters to believe that BRISA will in fact be working on all their behalfs, members or not.

This is the last post from this apathetic fan on the subject

360784[/snapback]

All very true. I hope we have communicated well with the membership to date as it's one of our key aims. We can't very well argue for better communication from the club without setting an example ourselves.

I have no idea how many fans belonged to the old OSAs. I do know JW and TF were prepared to listen when BRISA was just eight people with an idea, prior to the launch the club provided a great deal of support but without interferring at all; after the launch we were able to report 100 members (the original end of season target), now we have 170 and I expect 250 inside another month. I don't feel we need a critical mass to impress JW, but the more members we have the more representative BRISA becomes.

[Guest Vinjay]

I believe I did explain the logic. Being independant could lead to a conflict between club and fans. Being non independant would keep fans in line and not lead to possibility of conflict. Does that explain?

[Hughesy]

So what is on the agenda for the group to speak with the club about?