[Archived] Blackburn Rovers Independent Supporters Asscn

[Exiled in Toronto]

There's hardly a poster on here, me included, who doesn't have fixed views abouts something or other.

Personally I can't stand the ganging up that goes on sometimes against individuals, whether I agree with them or not. The whole point of the internet is open source, and Vinjay had just as much right to post as anyone else. If he bugs you, don't read and don't respond. His line of argument may be flawed and repetitive, but I respect his right to think it and express it in the face of hostility.

I also feel that many of the "shut up Vinjay" brigade in many cases harp on a single point which I find equally ridiculous, which I can paraphrase as, "We're a ###### little club who no-one would invest a penny in." Today I read that Charlton have signed a $6.4 million sponsorship deal - CHARLTON - yet we are supposedly lucky to get seven and sixpence from Lonsdale.

Back to the BRISA thread - I worry that BRISA are a little too in awe of the great job supposedly being done by Batman and Robin in the BRFC corner office. Great to go in with constructive ideas, but should be tempered with a bit of "Support for Our Club, Mr. Paid Employees, appears to have gone down the drain on your watch. We'll still be here when you have f*cked off, so convince us, as paying customers, that you know what your doing." No more than normal chairmen of company's whose sales have declined 25% in a couple of years get asked at AGM's

[roversmum]

I think the questions in your latter paragraph will be tempered at the meeting on 12th January EIT.

Many suggestions have been made and we will be wanting answers, particularly in the event of suggestions having been tried and not successful.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I think the questions in your latter paragraph will be tempered at the meeting on 12th January EIT.

Many suggestions have been made and we will be wanting answers, particularly in the event of suggestions having been tried and not successful.

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Go for it Roversmum. He's an employee and you're the customer. Don't be frightened of the unspoken threat of withdrawal of access.

[FourLaneBlue]

I also feel that many of the "shut up Vinjay" brigade in many cases harp on a single point which I find equally ridiculous, which I can paraphrase as, "We're a ###### little club who no-one would invest a penny in."  Today I read that Charlton have signed a $6.4 million sponsorship deal - CHARLTON - yet we are supposedly lucky to get seven and sixpence from Lonsdale.

366384[/snapback]

Charlton play to a usually full stadium (at least they did a few months ago) in a city with many rich inhabitants. If you think we are anywhere near as attractive for sponsors as them then I can only say I have to disagree. Despite that I agree that we do seem to do ourselves down a little bit too much.

[stuwilky]

Charlton play to a usually full stadium (at least they did a few months ago) in a city with many rich inhabitants. If you think we are anywhere near as attractive for sponsors as them then I can only say I have to disagree. Despite that I agree that we do seem to do ourselves down a little bit too much.

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98.2% capacity utilisation average for league games so far this season.Comapred to 63% at Ewood.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Surely you are not both suggesting that Charlton are a natural level above us as a club? Such short memories. We played them season in, season out in the old 2nd Div., they got 7,000 crowds the same as we did. They were our peers when we were crap.

The fact that they now are seemingly our superiors, despite us winning two trophies, appeared in 4 semi-finals, and been in Europe 4 times in the last 10 years, is purely down to how well each club had been run and marketed in more recent times

While many on here seem to think that the orderly management of decline is our lot, Charlton are a shining example of controlled, sensible ambition.

[den]

On the flip side EIT, Charlton used to have great support. Better than rovers ever had.

Averaged 40000 one season and have a record attendance of 75000.

Take a look at the crowd here

[ultrablue]

The fact is that Charlton are a comparable club in stature, but the gulf in appeal between locations is huge!! Charlton can attract new fans very easily as they have a local population that attachs no stigma to charlton as a place. I dont know where it is- the stadium may be surrounded by the worst kind of urban derilict housing Britain has to offer! However it is in London, and therefore its location and nearby facilities do not matter as much.

Blackburn cannot rival a club of the same financial and footballing credentials that happens to be in the capital. Until vast improvements are made to Blackburn as a town, Rovers cannot grow much more.

What I believe BRISA needs to be concentrating on first is establishing a visual and vocal supporters group that works with the club to organise a more entertaining and enjoyable atmosphere that will make us somewhat unique in the Premiership. Rovers offer little more in the way of entertainment than our north west rivals, yet we expect the floating fan to attend. We are in a good position, we have the likes of Henry and Lampard coming to play at Ewood, what we need is to get those fans of football to become fans of football at Ewood!

BRISA in my view is a definate step in the right direction, and therefore should focus predominantly on the fans role in the club, not on what, to be honest, we cannot have much effect on- the financial realities of a north west town club. The aim is quite clear- first and foremost, the spectacle should be established at Ewood

[Exiled in Toronto]

I despair.

Rochdale has a population of over 200,000 and is a lot closer to the 500,000 of Manchester. Should we be aiming lower than them?

Williams and Finn are going to be in for some easy meetings if BRISA fall for this "we're small and crap" nonsense. However, Roversmum has given me faith that BRISA will be going in with high expectations of our $400,000 business management team

[stuwilky]

Williams and Finn are going to be in for some easy meetings if BRISA fall for this "we're small and crap" nonsense.  However, Roversmum has given me faith that BRISA will be going in with high expectations of our $400,000 business management team

366815[/snapback]

Im not aware that we are either of those things. And I cannot see Mr Williams and Mr Finn convinced anyone of that, if they indeed think it.

[joey_big_nose]

On the flip side EIT, Charlton used to have great support. Better than rovers ever had.

Averaged 40000 one season and have a record attendance of 75000.

Take a look at the crowd here

366783[/snapback]

Crikey, they are planning to build a 40,000 all seater stadium. Picking up the Wimbledon slack?

If they pull that off and can fill it it would move them into the Villa/Everton/Spurs bracket.

I always thought they had similar levels of support to us. Shows how wrong you can be...

[Tris]

I despair.

Rochdale has a population of over 200,000 and is a lot closer to the 500,000 of Manchester.  Should we be aiming lower than them? 

Williams and Finn are going to be in for some easy meetings if BRISA fall for this "we're small and crap" nonsense.  However, Roversmum has given me faith that BRISA will be going in with high expectations of our $400,000 business management team

366815[/snapback]

I enjoy reading your contributions because they bring valuable challenges and balance to the discussion.

In turn, I have to challenge what appears to be a constant theme in what you post - namely that John Williams and Tom Finn are not doing good jobs.

I can guarantee that they are doing remarkably good jobs in highly challenging circumstances.

To keep quoting their earning figures is disingenuous for a start. Like it or not, businesses - in any sector - pay those salaries, often much much more, for their CEOs and MDs.

Our "business management team" cannot be held responsible for the greater ills of football or the size and makeup of the Blackburn population. If you could hear them air their views on those outside factors, and how they work passionately to balance steering the best route for Rovers against the challenges they are faced with, you would certainly stop posting the sort of comments you have been.

In fact I'd urge you to seek an audience with the targets of your criticism next time you're over here - they make time to meet and speak one-to-one with people from BB1, so if you pop over from Toronto you'd probably get a free ground tour and a cup of tea thrown in too.

[philipl]

Well said Tris.

The crude facts are that Rovers are operating in a market place which is probably 50% smaller than the next smallest Premiership club's target market (if you multiply available support by incomes of that support). Bolton and Wigan both have hinterlands double the size of Rovers and when it comes to Charlton, they are addressing a potential market with spending power at least ten- quite easily twenty times the size of Rovers. Yes they are going up to 40,000 capacity and yes they will fill it.

Messrs Finn and Williams are decently remunerated but are earning a pittance compared with Birch, Gill, Kenyon, Bernstein, the Newcastle jokers, Brady and most of the other Prem chiefs which they routinely run rings round.

They are a class act in an industry pitifully short of class acts.

Edited December 13, 2005 by philipl

[Exiled in Toronto]

I enjoy reading your contributions because they bring valuable challenges and balance to the discussion.

In turn, I have to challenge what appears to be a constant theme in what you post - namely that John Williams and Tom Finn are not doing good jobs.

I can guarantee that they are doing remarkably good jobs in highly challenging circumstances.

To keep quoting their earning figures is disingenuous for a start.  Like it or not, businesses - in any sector - pay those salaries, often much much more, for their CEOs and MDs.

Our "business management team" cannot be held responsible for the greater ills of football or the size and makeup of the Blackburn population.  If you could hear them air their views on those outside factors, and how they work passionately to balance steering the best route for Rovers against the challenges they are faced with, you would certainly stop posting the sort of comments you have been.

In fact I'd urge you to seek an audience with the targets of your criticism next time you're over here - they make time to meet and speak one-to-one with people from BB1, so if you pop over from Toronto you'd probably get a free ground tour and a cup of tea thrown in too.

366826[/snapback]

Guilty as charged to having a Vinjay-esque obsession on this subject, and you are not the first who has has the pleasure of their company to tell me that they are decent, hard working, committed chaps. Not saying they aren't.

But my issue is one of accountability. Other people on those salaries tend to have their feet held to the fire on things like top-line sales growth; something I don't see happening at Ewood. It particularly bugs me when the noises from Ewood seem to blame the Blackburn public for not showing up enough. If the MD of Marks and Sparks had put the blame for his woes on Britain's little old ladies for not buying enough knickers, he would have been hounded out by the shareholders immediately.

But then I suspect our mysterious shareholders are in the camp of anything for a quiet life, so I suppose I should be ganging up with Vinjay more than I already have to put the blame there. However, I cannot dispute your advice of inviting myself around for a cuppa on my next royal visit.

But back to trying to be constructive for BRISA; the public persona of Chairman John in no way demonstrates the attributes which you describe, so given the parlous state of our attendances, it wouldn't do any harm for him to more visibly portray them to a wavering and increasingly disaffected populace - they might even be infectious. While Sam Hamman has his faults, I think every Cardiff fan got caught up in his obvious enthusiasm.

[dave birch]

Messrs Finn and Williams are decently remunerated but are earning a pittance compared with Birch, Gill, Kenyon, Bernstein, the Newcastle jokers, Brady and most of the other Prem chiefs which they routinely run rings round.

366837[/snapback]

Can I categorically deny than I am earning squillions

[Jan]

This Vinjay bloke doesn't seem to understand plain English.

Although I don't know all of the details of Jack Walker's will, I believe all his wealth was left in trust. That means that no-one in the Walker family can touch that money- they have to live on the income. At 5% interest per year, that meant the trust generates income of a maximum of £34million per year. (I would question how much income Flybe actually generates as I'm assuming it's included in the £680million of trust assets. Airlines tend to have a lower return than most other forms of capital)

That MAXIMUM of £34milllion is to be shared between the Walker family and Blackburn Rovers. We get approximately £6m, which seems quite a reasonable amount given that Jack had at least 2 sons and a daughter as well as a wife (And that's without any other potential beneficiaries).

I don't think Jack's wife had money of her own, and I'm pretty sure the only money the children would have comes from the trust/Jack while he was alive, so while they're certainly not on their uppers, they rely on trust income to live.

From experience, I know that the more you earn, the more your lifestyle adapts to accommodate your income, so I suspect they're not salting away squillions of pounds.

So while they WOULD be considered rich, they're certainly not in the Dave Whelan class. They're more like, for example, partners in a law firm. Sufficient income to be very rich, but no access to large enough pots of cash to make huge capital injections to football clubs.

And this is BRFCS.com. Nothing to do with BRISA. I'm not a member of BRISA, and people's membership (or not) of that organisation is entirely co-incidental to their posting on here. BRISA has its own website. This website should not be a mouthpiece for BRISA- and isn't.

[FourLaneBlue]

Surely you are not both suggesting that Charlton are a natural level above us as a club?  Such short memories.  We played them season in, season out in the old 2nd Div., they got 7,000 crowds the same as we did.  They were our peers when we were crap.

The fact that they now are seemingly our superiors, despite us winning two trophies, appeared in 4 semi-finals, and been in Europe 4 times in the last 10 years, is purely down to how well each club had been run and marketed in more recent times

While many on here seem to think that the orderly management of decline is our lot, Charlton are a shining example of controlled, sensible ambition.

366777[/snapback]

There is no such thing as "a natural level" in football. Why would I be suggesting that they "are a natural level above us" then? I'd have no difficulty in communicating that so you are just putting words into my mouth.

Charlton are a Premiership side based in London. Their customers are likely to be, on the whole, more attractive to a sponsor to influence than the Rovers customers are. Nobody suggested about them being "seemingly our superiors" except you in this post I quoted. They aren't our superiors on the football pitch. At the moment however I'd expect they represent a more attractive club to sponsor. The sponsors agree and it certainly isn't something good management can turn around alone.

[joey_big_nose]

There is no such thing as "a natural level" in football. Why would I be suggesting that they "are a natural level above us" then? I'd have no difficulty in communicating that so you are just putting words into my mouth.

Charlton are a Premiership side based in London. Their customers are likely to be, on the whole, more attractive to a sponsor to influence than the Rovers customers are. Nobody suggested about them being "seemingly our superiors" except you in this post I quoted. They aren't our superiors on the football pitch. At the moment however I'd expect they represent a more attractive club to sponsor. The sponsors agree and it certainly isn't something good management can turn around alone.

366858[/snapback]

We could move to Hampstead Heath I suppose. Or maybe Singapore. Any number of options available to our lazy good for nothing directors.

[Hughesy]

Issue that needs addressing –

Season tickets for Young Adults (I too fall in this category, for this last season anyway)

16-21?? This good enough. I think there should be two categories here.

16-19 – Students (with proof of student card)

19 – 24 – Young Adults (with proof by providing birth certificate)

I know quiet a few people who have season tickets this year that are turning 22 and next season wont be eligible for the Young adult ticket next season.

Current price @ 21 in Blackburn end = £225

Price @ 22 in Blackburn end = £410

So if the price’s stay the same il be expected to pay an extra £185. That is almost double what I pay now! Now I know there is a direct debit scheme, that’s good and I understand that the club have to define adult at some point, but @ 21 some people are only just leaving university or college and can only be in part time work.

Yes people could move from the Blackburn end to the outer areas of say the CIS stand but that’s not what people want to do and most people are not willing to do this. Now im probably daft enough to pay the extra as iv been a season ticket holder for 10 years and not in part time work but I know a lot of people who are not going to pay that extra and IF the club fail to address it then they are going to lose more season ticket holders.

Can someone please bring this up at Fans forum & BRISA meetings?

[Blueboy Downunder]

as i am yet to recieve acknowledgement of my birsa messageboard registration being approved...i will post on here .

what i would like to be brought up at a future meeting with the club, is when are we gonna see the younger/youth players being given a chanceat first team level? what is wrong with sticking one of them on the bench and giving them a few minutes experiance towards the end of a game....if we are in a position to have that luxury. we see far far too many young kids being lauded and and put on a pedestal by the club, but never being given a chance at senior level.

[bob fleming]

as i am yet to recieve acknowledgement of my  birsa messageboard registration being approved....

366972[/snapback]

Same here BB.

[Scotty]

Same here BB.

366998[/snapback]

I think our forum admin person thingy has been away for a while. She's back now though so I'd expect normal service will be resumed soon.

[Hughesy]

Scotty - Can you do me a favour and raise my issue at the next meeting?

[Scotty]

Issue that needs addressing –

Season tickets for Young Adults (I too fall in this category, for this last season anyway)

16-21?? This good enough. I think there should be two categories here.

16-19 – Students (with proof of student card)

19 – 24 – Young Adults (with proof by providing birth certificate)

I know quiet a few people who have season tickets this year that are turning 22 and next season wont be eligible for the Young adult ticket next season.

Current price @ 21 in Blackburn end = £225

Price @ 22 in Blackburn end = £410

So if the price’s stay the same il be expected to pay an extra £185. That is almost double what I pay now! Now I know there is a direct debit scheme, that’s good and I understand that the club have to define adult at some point, but @ 21 some people are only just leaving university or college and can only be in part time work.

Yes people could move from the Blackburn end to the outer areas of say the CIS stand but that’s not what people want to do and most people are not willing to do this. Now im probably daft enough to pay the extra as iv been a season ticket holder for 10 years and not in part time work but I know a lot of people who are not going to pay that extra and IF the club fail to address it then they are going to lose more season ticket holders.

Can someone please bring this up at Fans forum & BRISA meetings?

366918[/snapback]

Sorry, I did mean to reply to this earlier. The issue of student / young adult tickets has already been raised and it was discussed in BRISA's last meeting. Everyone seemed to agree that it was a good idea so it'll appear in our proposal to go to the club in the new year.

Before it goes to the club though everyone will get a chance to comment on it.

[blue phil]

Messrs Finn and Williams are decently remunerated but are earning a pittance compared with Birch, Gill, Kenyon, Bernstein, the Newcastle jokers, Brady and most of the other Prem chiefs which they routinely run rings round.

They are a class act in an industry pitifully short of class acts.

366837[/snapback]

Makes you wonder why these "class acts" (who operate with the substantial aid of a trust fund let's not forget ) haven't been head hunted ....?

Perhaps BRISA could suggest that the pittance they earn be suitably elevated - provided , of course , that our attendances rise accordingly .

Maybe the reverse could be in order if attendances continue to slide .