[Archived] Never Mind Sacked!

[Doug]

I would definately bring in technology but only for maters of fact. By this I mean things like did the ball cross the line or was the player off-side when he scored. This is not open to opinion and any replays could be viewed as the game would be stopped naturally. For matters of opinion (ie a penalty appeal) there is will always differences so I would leave that in the hands of the officials.

I'm now of the opinion that even penalty decisions should be reviewable. After the Samba header V's Everton, the Danny Murphy one at Old Trafford last week and the magnificent challenge by Berg on the 'trawler captain' at Ewood all those years ago.

Football is just too big now. There is far too much at stake, Wigan would have beaten Chelsea if the officials had been up to it. The officials are increasingly becoming the main contributor to the results, and far too often are shown to be wrong.

[thenodrog]

Then, just look at the Wigan game, shocking, if it happened to us there would be all sorts of allegations being posted on here.

There is too much at stake in the PL for TV reviewing not to be used.

When a similar incident happened to Spurs last autumn (just after the N'Zonzi pen incident at Norwich I seem to rem) it was headline news and absolutely done to death on talksport all week.

[thenodrog]

Sunday at OT Young was offside by a yard or more with the linesman in direct line yet the flag stayed down and then he dived as soon as he felt a touch and the incomptetent Lee Mason (rem the pen against Samba v Everton?) deemed it a 'last man' foul. Obviously Derry was last man if Young was offside. Linesmans fault compounded by another referee who simply can't wait to satiate the unreasonable needs of 76000 inside OT.

From his first season at Villa Young has always been a diver yet somehow doesn't get a name for it as Suarez and Drogba etc have. Why is this? He is in his absolute element at OT!

btw the screeching know nowt Jonathen Pierce deemed it a rightful pen before going on to slate decisions made by various linesmen this weekend. How that fecker keeps his job is a constant mystery to me. He has neither talent, perception nor diction.

[JAL]

I would definately bring in technology but only for maters of fact. By this I mean things like did the ball cross the line or was the player off-side when he scored. This is not open to opinion and any replays could be viewed as the game would be stopped naturally. For matters of opinion (ie a penalty appeal) there is will always differences so I would leave that in the hands of the officials.

And the changes to the laws of the game would be.... what... from grassroot level upwards ?

Edited April 9, 2012 by JAL

[JAL]

I expected this argument, I have used it on many occasions, my post is to open debate on the subject, and I agree with all the points you make. But, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that TV is actualy highlighting so many costly mistakes that we have to use it somehow. I would use it initialy in the PL. If you look at the Balotelli challenge, there was a significant delay while the player got treated and therefore enough time for the jobsworth to review and message him through his intercom. Likewise the penalty/sending off at Old Trafford.

Maybe there could be a reviewing system like cricket has adopted. I'm not too sure yet, but, refs mistakes are now costing teams so many points and therefore affecting league positions, relegation, titles etc. that there has to be a change to the current system.

You are though proposing another influence into the running of the game, other than the referee. Is that really good for the game, and what if we end up debating wether the review system in place then comes into question as to wether they have got it right or wrong.... what then, where will that put the game as a whole.

Edited April 9, 2012 by JAL

[Baz]

From his first season at Villa Young has always been a diver yet somehow doesn't get a name for it as Suarez and Drogba etc have. Why is this? He is in his absolute element at OT!

Because he's not foreign. There seems to be this opinion that British players don't dive, which is untrue.

[JAL]

JAL, you stop play after a goal has been scored - IF there is a perceived infringement. It's done in many other sports. There might be a glut of appeals to start with but they will settle down.

We already have "phases of play" for offsides and the ref can allow play to continue so there should be no need to rewind for anything more than 30 seconds maximum. It should be the referee who asks for a second opinion from the fourth official - and only after the captain makes a request. It might even finally be a way to bring back respect into football.

The issue is that refs don't always see incidents so rather than people caning them, why not help them?

And it's no good trying to pretend that top level competition isn't virtually a different sport to lower leagues already because it is. I don't recall there being a snickometer or hawkeye in lower level cricket or rugby matches and that seems to manage without imploding.

How do you restart play, if play stops to await a video replay on a goal or not, and the decision comes not to give a goal.?

[Doug]

You are though proposing another influence into the running of the game, other than the referee. Is that really good for the game, and what if we end up debating wether the review system in place then comes into question as to wether they have got it right or wrong.... what then, where will that put the game as a whole.

All I am suggesting is that we have the technology to get far more of the big decisions correct. If used correctly it would make it a far more fairer game and, like cricket umpires and rugby refs, take the pressure off the footy refs and assist them to get it right.

As you have seen on sky, the replay can be shown in a matter of seconds, and could even be played on the 'big screen' that most PL clubs have. In fact, I would suggest the changes made to cricket have made it a better game. The reviews are often nail biting!

Surely the ultimate 'goal' would be to get the big ones right more often.

How do you restart play, if play stops to await a video replay on a goal or not, and the decision comes not to give a goal.?

Goal kick would be a reasonable way.

Edited April 9, 2012 by 12milesfromewood

[BuckyRover]

I read somewhere the other day that around 40% of prem players are from the home countries but they account for circa. 60% of the yellow cards for diving this season.

[Doug]

And the changes to the laws of the game would be.... what... from grassroot level upwards ?

Maybe PL and football league, there are cameras and a fourth official at all those games.

Edited April 9, 2012 by 12milesfromewood

[Stuart]

How do you restart play, if play stops to await a video replay on a goal or not, and the decision comes not to give a goal.?

How do you restart a disallowed goal now? Free kick for the infringement.

Nothing changes in the application of the laws of the game, JAL, you just give the ref(s) an opportunity to make the right decision by giving them the angles they couldn't see.

It makes no sense for everyone watching to see exactly what happened and not being able to share it with the most important decision maker on the pitch.

[JAL]

All I am suggesting is that we have the technology to get far more of the big decisions correct. If used correctly it would make it a far more fairer game and, like cricket umpires and rugby refs, take the pressure off the footy refs and assist them to get it right.

As you have seen on sky, the replay can be shown in a matter of seconds, and could even be played on the 'big screen' that most PL clubs have. In fact, I would suggest the changes made to cricket have made it a better game. The reviews are often nail biting!

Surely the ultimate 'goal' would be to get the big ones right more often.

Goal kick would be a reasonable way.

In cricket and Rugby generally the game is dead when either a touch down or wicket is claimed for, but football is different in that play continues and can quickly move upfield whilst other incidents(fouls,goals,penalties etc.) may occur very soon after.

For the goal kick, if the ball has been deemed not to have crossed the line for a goal then why should play restart with a goal kick.

How do you restart a disallowed goal now? Free kick for the infringement.

Nothing changes in the application of the laws of the game, JAL, you just give the ref(s) an opportunity to make the right decision by giving them the angles they couldn't see.

It makes no sense for everyone watching to see exactly what happened and not being able to share it with the most important decision maker on the pitch.

Free kick to who, and where should the kick be taken from, and why ?

Edited April 9, 2012 by JAL

[Fife Rover]

How do you restart play, if play stops to await a video replay on a goal or not, and the decision comes not to give a goal.?

The obvious way would be to re-start with a goalkick. I am assuming the ball had crossed the goal line in leading to the disputed "goal".

[JAL]

The obvious way would be to re-start with a goalkick. I am assuming the ball had crossed the goal line in leading to the disputed "goal".

If the ball had crossed the line then it would be a goal, would it not.

[Amo]

Because he's not foreign. There seems to be this opinion that British players don't dive, which is untrue.

If someone like Suarez or Drogba fall down like a sack of spuds, the pundits aren't quick enough to slag 'em off.

If it's your Gerrards, Rooneys or Bales they'll completely gloss over it.

[Doug]

If the ball had crossed the line then it would be a goal, would it not.

In the case where a foul had been commited then a free kick would be awarded, but in the case where a goal is awarded, but, with replay technology, the ball is shown not to cross the line, then a goal kick is awarded, as the ball had been deemed to have crossed the goal line by the ref when the goal was wrongly awarded.

[Stuart]

Free kick to who, and where should the kick be taken from, and why ?

Stop being deliberately obtuse, JAL.

If the goal is disallowed for offside play restarts with a free kick where the offside occurred - like it would have if the ref had originally seen it.

If a player punches the ball into the net play restarts with a free kick (funnily enough) AGAINST the player who handled the ball - like it would have if the ref had originally seen it.

If the result of the replay is no infringement, the goal stands, and play restarts with a kick off on the centre circle by the team who conceded - guess what - like it would have if the ref had originally seen it.

As I said, play would only be stopped in the event of a goal - which automatically causes a stoppage anyway.

[JAL]

In the case where a foul had been commited then a free kick would be awarded, but in the case where a goal is awarded, but, with replay technology, the ball is shown not to cross the line, then a goal kick is awarded, as the ball had been deemed to have crossed the goal line by the ref when the goal was wrongly awarded.

Theres been no foul, the debate is HAS the ball crossed the line with no unfair inference from any other player but we need additional technology to support the referee. Scenario the ball we think crosses the line but we are unclear about this whilst the ball is booted from under the crossbar upfield by a defender in a last ditch goal line clearance, the ball at his moment in time is still in play.

When do we stop play ? and what if from this punt a player commits a serious foul on an opponent seriously injuring him but we need to know was there a goal scored or not.

How do you propose to implement your changes to the Laws of the game.

Edited April 9, 2012 by JAL

[Doug]

Theres been no foul, the debate is HAS the ball crossed the line with no unfair inference from any other player but we need additional technology to support the referee. Scenario the ball we think crosses the line but we are unclear about this whilst the ball is booted from under the crossbar upfield by a defender in a last ditch goal line clearance, the ball at his moment in time is still in play.

When do we stop play ? and what if from this punt a player commits a serious foul on an opponent seriously injuring him but we need to know was there a goal scored or not.

How do you propose to implement your changes to the Laws of the game.

We will have to implement goal line technology which will, in 'real time', indicate if the ball has crossed the line (similar to ice hockey?) I believe this is the technology being looked at. So, the scenario you have put forward shouldn't occur.

[arbitro]

And the changes to the laws of the game would be.... what... from grassroot level upwards ?

It would have to be be competition specific, similar to Super League, international cricket and any other sport where technology is available. The International Board will decide how it will be implemented but it is pretty much nailed on that it will come in. I was active when a trial was done by moving the ball 10 yards forward when dissent was shown. This only applied to the Football and Premier Leagues so the Laws didn't have to be re-written.

It has always been a boast from FIFA that the Laws of the Game apply universally irrespective of the competition but the change is imminent and has been since Frank Lampards 'goal' against Germany in South Africa.

[adopted scouser]

Watching the Fulham game. Riise dropped when Meireles didn't go anywhere neat him. Yellow card, ridiculous

[JAL]

It would have to be be competition specific, similar to Super League, international cricket and any other sport where technology is available. The International Board will decide how it will be implemented but it is pretty much nailed on that it will come in. I was active when a trial was done by moving the ball 10 yards forward when dissent was shown. This only applied to the Football and Premier Leagues so the Laws didn't have to be re-written.

It has always been a boast from FIFA that the Laws of the Game apply universally irrespective of the competition but the change is imminent and has been since Frank Lampards 'goal' against Germany in South Africa.

Wonder how low the percentage is, of goal line decisions that aren't given at this moment in time. Would have thought for the amount of time and money being spent on creating a workable technology its not really going to be worth it other than.....

Platini's additional goal line assistant which seems to be the most simplistic and cost effective way of tackling the problem currently, of did the ball cross the line or not.

Edited April 22, 2012 by JAL

[Stuart]

Wonder how low the percentage is, of goal line decisions that aren't given at this moment in time. Would have thought for the amount of time and money being spent on creating a workable technology its not really going to be worth it other than.....

Platini's additional goal line assistant which seems to be the most simplistic and cost effective way of tackling the problem currently, of, did the ball cross the line or not.

Have you been potted from the first round of tendering for goal line technology? You seem to be desperate to find different reasons why it won't work.

[JAL]

Have you been potted from the first round of tendering for goal line technology? You seem to be desperate to find different reasons why it won't work.

No, far from it Stuart, just seeing what different posters take is on the solution.

[thenodrog]

QPR v Spurs.

Apart from bloody awful goalkeeping from Brad Friedel of all people it wasn't even a bloody free kick!!! What the hell the ref saw to award that free kick God only knows. How much could that decision cost BRFC / Bolton / Wigan?

Edited April 21, 2012 by thenodrog