[Archived] Drugs

[philipl]

On the basis that 6,000 people died from drug abuse out of 500,000 habitual drug users over 5 years and 500,000 people died from tobacco out of 18,000,000 habitual users over the same period in the UK, tobacco must be about three times more dangerous on the numbers at the foot of this article.

Apart from that, I think the article re-enforces my view that drugs should be de-criminalised. No doubt David Cameron and George Osborne are wishing they were.

[Gareth]

If you work it out, 6000 deaths from 500,000 users equals 12 deaths per 1000; while 500,000 deaths from 18,000,000 equals 27.8 deaths per 1000.

So although fags are more dangerous, they're not quite 3 times as dangerous, more like 2 1/3 times.

I agree with decriminalisation, purely from a practical point of view, as it's better to have a substance legal & regulated than illegal & un-regulated. Plus if it's legal you can tax it & don't have to waste police resources on trying to enforce prohibition.

[Bing]

Practical point of view?

So how many chemists are going to be happy stocking this stuff and having 20 smackheads queueing in their shop, probably helping themselves to various other items whilst they're there?

And is the resident junkie going to nip down to Boots and pay £5 for a fix (complete with £3 tax) or is he going to ring up Dodgy Dave and get it illegally for half the price?

[Eddie]

If they do that anyway then what's the difference? It would make it easer to relegate, while it may also put some users off who only do it for the "rebel factor".

[Gareth]

So how many chemists are going to be happy stocking this stuff and having 20 smackheads queueing in their shop, probably helping themselves to various other items whilst they're there?

And is the resident junkie going to nip down to Boots and pay £5 for a fix (complete with £3 tax) or is he going to ring up Dodgy Dave and get it illegally for half the price?

353609[/snapback]

You don't have to have it in a shop - make 'em go to a hospital & give 'em clean needles & safe injection rooms, like they do in Holland, Switzerland & parts of Australia

[thenodrog]

You don't have to have it in a shop - make 'em go to a hospital & give 'em clean needles & safe injection rooms, like they do in Holland, Switzerland & parts of Australia

353634[/snapback]

Agreed but the white packets I'd give em would be Vim.

[tassierover]

Theno, Do you mean take the active opium derivitive out of the the smack and leave only the vim? Now that would be a novel way to reduce the number of addicts. Unfortunately the price of vim would skyrocket but hey we could always resort to elbow grease.

[dave birch]

You don't have to have it in a shop - make 'em go to a hospital & give 'em clean needles & safe injection rooms, like they do in Holland, Switzerland & parts of Australia

353634[/snapback]

Gareth, there is one legal "safe injecting room" in Sydney. It does not supply drugs, they have to be bought (which is illegal) and brought to the room. There are doctors and nurses available if there is a problem. There are no questions asked. All they want to do is reduce deaths by overdose. To that end, it has been successful.

[Napoleon]

On the basis that  6,000 people died from drug abuse out of 500,000 habitual drug users over 5 years and 500,000 people died from tobacco out of 18,000,000 habitual users over the same period in the UK, tobacco must be about three times more dangerous

353593[/snapback]

The article refers to class A drugs in general. Cocaine makes up most of the Class A drug use in the UK, and has relatively few fatalities which makes the statistics for Class A drugs in general misleading. If the statistic were for heroin only, it would probably be more clear how destructive it is comparative to tobacco.

Legalising cannabis is something I'm in favour of, as the current law criminalises a large number of people who are otherwise law-abiding citizens (the strong link between heroin and crack usage and crime puts these drugs in particular apart).

[blue phil]

You don't have to have it in a shop - make 'em go to a hospital & give 'em clean needles & safe injection rooms, like they do in Holland, Switzerland & parts of Australia

353634[/snapback]

Why not save the valuable time of our overworked hospital staff and have the stuff dispensed at the local graveyard ?

[Cheshireblue]

Why try to reduce the number of deaths by overdose?

I'm against legalising Cannabis. I assume, although I am happy to hear evidence to the contrary, that most heroin/crack/coke addicts started out on cannabis. It is therefore my view that the more people that smoke pot, the more people will move on to harder drugs. It seems logical to me.

[Billy Castell]

Some people do, but some people stay on the level of cannabis. I think it should all be legalised, but sold in licensed places, with incredibly severe penalties for the black market sellers. And then you bring in a raft of regulations and clauses to make sure that the sellers really behave themselves. The supply should be monopolised by the state, and heavily taxed. Taxes could go on rehab and similar programmes.

Such a policy has to be done globally though, as if it only applied to a single country, it will become a staging post for worldwide distribution. Therefore this will never happen, so don't worry.

[Dr Rich]

I assume, although I am happy to hear evidence to the contrary, that most heroin/crack/coke addicts started out on cannabis. It is therefore my view that the more people that smoke pot, the more people will move on to harder drugs.

353871[/snapback]

Bet most pot-heads started out on tobacco/alcohol. Probably should delegalise those too. Well the first one anyway, not sure how well I could get by without the odd drink

[Flopsy]

surgery would be less fun I grant you

[andy82]

Theres not much point bringing this up, you won't be able to smoke a cig in your own home let alone a joint the way things are going.

If the tory's have half a clue how to solve their problems with being 'out of touch' with the man on the street, they will make Cameron their leader on his comments on drugs alone.

[Napoleon]

If the tory's have half a clue how to solve their problems with being 'out of touch' with the man on the street, they will make Cameron their leader on his comments on drugs alone.

354153[/snapback]

In a Newsnight poll last night, 6% of respondents would be more likely to vote for someone who had smoked cannabis at some time in the past!

[Gareth]

In a Newsnight poll last night, 6% of respondents would be more likely to vote for someone who had smoked cannabis at some time in the past!

354162[/snapback]

Guess honesty pays off...

[Alex Rover]

In a Newsnight poll last night, 6% of respondents would be more likely to vote for someone who had smoked cannabis at some time in the past!

354162[/snapback]

To be accurate though, the average viewer of Newsnight (and I am one of them) isn't a very good indicator of the national conscious.

[Napoleon]

To be accurate though, the average viewer of Newsnight (and I am one of them) isn't a very good indicator of the national conscious.

354223[/snapback]

Should have made it clearer; it was a poll of 1000 of the general public but presented on Newsnight

[colin]

In a Newsnight poll last night, 6% of respondents would be more likely to vote for someone who had smoked cannabis at some time in the past!

354162[/snapback]

So 94% wouldn't. That doesn't really help us get us anywhere does it?

Just on to Chesh's point that the cocaine/heroin users start with cannabis..That's probably down to the fact that they have established the links with the drug dealing community. You'll probably find that 100% of them have been to a primary school. It doesn't really mean much.

As for letting drug addicts inject Vim & die?

That's probably a muslin solution. Belongs to a world long gone. Probably went out of the window with slavery, young boys up the chimney & forceful buggery at Eton.

*sigh* the good old days eh?

[blue phil]

So let's make all drugs legal , have our youth die from heroin and crack , and allow our caring government to profit from the whole business .

*sigh* - the good old days to come eh ?

[Flopsy]

Or we could keep them illegal have our youth die from heroin and crack , and allow our caring government not to profit from the whole business.

Prohibition doesnt work, the Americans proved that with the Alcohol Prohibition last century. All it does is push the business into the arms of criminals. (well those that havent been elected anyway).

The current prohibition on drugs is not working, blatently. Its a simple case of economic supply and demand, the demand is there and therefore the supply will follow, especially with the huge profit margins involved.

Threats of jail doesnt seem to work against users, and all it seems to do is put poor people in our already overcrowded jails.

Legalisation and treatment is as good an idea (and a hell of a lot cheaper, both in monetary terms and human terms) than the current black hole that is the "War on Drugs" which is being lost on our streets and in society.

As smoking's being banned soon we might as well open another revenue stream to make up for the short fall. Better than higher taxes (a large amount that goes on paying for the "War on Drugs")

[blue phil]

As smoking's being banned soon we might as well open another revenue stream to make up for the short fall. Better than higher taxes (a large amount that goes on paying for the "War on Drugs")

354372[/snapback]

The most ludicrous defence of legalising drugs that I've ever heard . Get rid of one dangerous substance and replace it with a whole variety of far more dangerous substances .....and all with the aim of keeping the revenue coffers full ??? Good grief , Flops , you've excelled yourself

[blue phil]

....and one more point that I've never had a decent reply from the pro drug debate . How , in this litigious age , will the Government and the suppliers of heroin , crack etc get away with selling drugs that quite clearly are vastly more addictive than alcohol and consequently cause far greater damage to the individuals ? The human rights lawyers would have a field day - especially as the very same gov't (presumably) are trying to ban cigs because they are "dangerous" ....

A better way of dealing with the problem of our citizens having their lives blighted is for more draconian attitude to those who deal in hard drugs . Rather than threaten them with gaol , let's double or triple the sentences they presently get . Rather than stick them in comfy prisons where drugs are freely available , stick them in solitary and force them to go cold turkey . The prison population might go up temporarily - I'd bet it wouldn't stay high for long .

One things for certain - our young citizens don't deserve to be just written off by our own Government , and they definitely don't deserve for the Gov't to make a profit out of the whole enterprise .

[Flopsy]

Cheers its better than any of your ideas