[Archived] Drugs

[blue phil]

It's estimated that some 2000 deaths have been avoided by the provision of these premises.

There's always a downside ...... :ph34r:

[3rdpillar]

Practical point of view?

So how many chemists are going to be happy stocking this stuff and having 20 smackheads queueing in their shop, probably helping themselves to various other items whilst they're there?

And is the resident junkie going to nip down to Boots and pay £5 for a fix (complete with £3 tax) or is he going to ring up Dodgy Dave and get it illegally for half the price?

Chemists already have smackheads queuing for their medication. Sorry, should have said loitering menacingly.

[tony gale's mic]

i think a distinction does need to be made between drugs. some drugs such as ecstasy and acid arent actually chemically addictive like heroin, cocaine or even alcohol can be...users can become habitual but its not nearly the same. also in their pure form theyre not toxic either, although E can be due to the substances its cut with. personally i'm an occasional E user and have done a few psychedelics, smoke marijuana occasionally and have tried coke once (whilst in sao paulo last summer, probably not the wisest move really). wouldnt want to do coke again, as enjoyable as it was i wouldnt want to get in those circles, cokes a pretty nasty drug all told. E is good fun though. however, i need to be very careful as i'm going to be a doctor in two years so cant really afford to get caught...

[dave birch]

Tony, (I seem to be replying to you alot today)

30 or so years ago, a mate of mine like to indulge in a a "smoke" over lunch. Remember hash was of a lesser "quality" then.

Bill enjoyed it carried on and now. Tony, you should see him. To put it mildly, he's a mess. Never married, heart attack material, and has had medical attention for that; a life totally wasted, he was a top bloke.

Now, he can't do the things his mate can.

So before you go down the track that there's no problems, think about what will happen in 10/20/30 years.

As for acid, well the two recent deaths of teenagers (in Sydney) suggests that there is more of a problem than previously thought.

[tony gale's mic]

Tony, (I seem to be replying to you alot today)

30 or so years ago, a mate of mine like to indulge in a a "smoke" over lunch. Remember hash was of a lesser "quality" then.

Bill enjoyed it carried on and now. Tony, you should see him. To put it mildly, he's a mess. Never married, heart attack material, and has had medical attention for that; a life totally wasted, he was a top bloke.

Now, he can't do the things his mate can.

So before you go down the track that there's no problems, think about what will happen in 10/20/30 years.

As for acid, well the two recent deaths of teenagers (in Sydney) suggests that there is more of a problem than previously thought.

ah, i only do these things occasionally. i smoke hash maybe once or twice in a month do pills a similar amount. regular use of any of these drugs will probably do you more harm than having a pint every evening, i'm fully aware of that...but isolated deaths shouldnt always be used because there can be a number of factors. for example in the case of leah betts, there was a huge tabloid explosion about how ecstasy had killed her, but afterwards it had emerged her actual cause of death was drinking too much water. legalising certain drugs (not all though) means that better education can be given about them and the toxic elements removed from the drugs.

[FourLaneBlue]

Tony, (I seem to be replying to you alot today)

30 or so years ago, a mate of mine like to indulge in a a "smoke" over lunch. Remember hash was of a lesser "quality" then.

Bill enjoyed it carried on and now. Tony, you should see him. To put it mildly, he's a mess. Never married, heart attack material, and has had medical attention for that; a life totally wasted, he was a top bloke.

Now, he can't do the things his mate can.

So before you go down the track that there's no problems, think about what will happen in 10/20/30 years.

As for acid, well the two recent deaths of teenagers (in Sydney) suggests that there is more of a problem than previously thought.

Nothing in life is risk-free Dave but I think tony gale's mic was saying that in moderation some drugs are not as dangerous as other drugs. Alcohol, for example, must exacerbate the mental health problems of a huge number of people but it doesn't stop many people enjoying a pint.

I certainly don't believe that heroin should be legal but with marijuana it is so prevalent that I think we might as well sell and tax it. People who want will get it anyway but surely it is preferable not to buy it from a source that will also offer them drugs like heroin.

There is somewhat of making a pact with the devil in legalising recreational drugs (including alcohol or tobacco) but there also needs to be a pragmatic approach as well as whatever the law is the society still has to function in the everyday. I'd much rather the authorities spent their time concentrating on drugs like heroin. Perhaps not ideal but then what is relating to this issue?

[blue phil]

I see you're in Colombia , FLB ....?

Edited August 10, 2007 by blue phil

[FourLaneBlue]

I see you're in Colombia , FLB ....?

Yep not been here long but the strongest thing I have been offered is rum.

[cletus]

don`t take drugs kids!

[FourLaneBlue]

Edited August 11, 2007 by FourLaneBlue

[philipl]

More fuel for the debate

[blue phil]

An article written in the Guardian by a faded rock star now studying law.....

Oh dear ....

[Bazzanotsogreat]

The problem that I have with our own and other nation’s policy towards drugs, it that they are predominantly reactionary. What I mean by this is that they attempt to tackle drugs when they entered the destination country. Through policing, intelligence then subsequently education & rehab etc.

What needs to happen Is that we must cut the supply, at the moment supply is outstripping demand thus the subsequent dramatic lowering of prices on the street (especially cocaine & heroin) lower prices equates to more users. Instead of spending billions on reactionary expensive UK strategies, why don’t we target the Drug the infancy of its production. At the moment we have the perfect opportunity to-do this in Afghanistan, where over 90% of the UK’s heroin originates from.

We need to give the Afghan poppy farmers another option apart selling poppies to earn a living. We should be investing our millions educating, re-skilling and creating other jobs in areas where the poppy is the only source of income. Failing this, why have state run poppy farms, where the farmers are guaranteed a fixed price and protection of the coalition forces from local warlords & Taliban. The poppy crop could then be used for medicinal purposes in the UK and other coalition nations

[philipl]

The Times economics spokesman advocates dropping the war on drugs

[Nate]

Just say nose!!!

Sorry. Couldn't help it!

[blue phil]

HERE is an excellent way of dealing with the drug dealers contaminating our streets .

[Eddie]

Funny, if that had happened in the Middle East or had it done by an immigrant you would have considered it yet another example of their barbaric behaviour and why they are nowhere near as civilised as us.

[blue phil]

Actually I wouldn't , Eddie .

In many ways we have lost the right to call ourselves civilised . We have a judicial system that in many areas no longer punishes nor deters .

I would applaud such radical action wherever it took place . Scum have to treated as scum ; punishment and humiliation might work where liberalism has so patently failed .

[Flopsy]

HERE is an excellent way of dealing with the drug dealers contaminating our streets .

fiver says it was done by one of the rival drugs gangs/paramilitaries who used the drug trade to pay for their weapons during the last 20 years.

Now they're just well armed drug dealers who like to protect their patches and pretend to be on the moral high ground

[blue phil]

I suppose that is a possibility , Flops ......but if it was merely a group of enraged citizens at the end of their tether then they have my admiration .

Either way , where is the legitimate arm of the law ?

[Flopsy]

In Northern Ireland? Emasculated

I'd say the first is the strong possibility Phil, the Loyalists are awfully keen to protect their patch from anyone, big or small trying to sell on their turf.

And then dress it up as outraged citizens looking after the folk.

[philipl]

HERE is an excellent way of dealing with the drug dealers contaminating our streets .

That is so obviously a para- military action.

Section 6 of this report gives an insight into the particular issues in Northern Ireland

My case is simple-

Human beings have been altering their states of consciousness since the dawn of time. Whether it is legal (alcohol) or illegal ("drugs"), it seems to be a basic human need which different individuals deal with in different ways. Some of the greatest achievements of humanity have been conceived and realised by individuals under the influence of hallucigens.

They are all harmful to health to a greater or lesser degree.

There is a random divide between what is societally acceptable and not and what is illegal or not. 90% of all schizophrenics are tobacco users for instance.

Prohibition of alcohol in the States was a dismal failure. Prohibition of drugs is causing far greater human misery and misallocation of resources (from funding the Taliban to hoodlums operating in gangs from Belfast to Palermo to Tirana etc. to private armies in Colombia) than other means and ways of attempting to regulate and moderate drug "abuse".

[blue phil]

My case is simple-

Human beings have been altering their states of consciousness since the dawn of time. Whether it is legal (alcohol) or illegal ("drugs"), it seems to be a basic human need which different individuals deal with in different ways. Some of the greatest achievements of humanity have been conceived and realised by individuals under the influence of hallucigens.

They are all harmful to health to a greater or lesser degree.

Your case is indeed very simple .

Basically it is that because some harmful substances are legal ALL harmful substances should be made legal - regardless of the degree to which they damage both the individual and society as a whole .

Today in town (on one of my very infrequent visits) I came across a couple of druggies who , to be honest , were an embarrassment to the human race and of no good whatsoever to society . True , it could be said that many alcos are in the same boat but the question always remains ......Do people want the government of this nation to actively collude in destroying the lives of its own citizens by making the most dangerous of drugs legal and taking a cut in the profits made of such sales ?

I for one will never accept the lowering of standards to such a level and have the gov't abdicate its responsibility to the people just because it's a tough problem . Best take the gloves off and tackle the problem head on . Zero tolerance is the answer - harsher sentences , cold turkey for addicts .

....and if that doesn't work - deportation for druggies to Malta . See how you like them on your patch .

[OhmiBRFC]

Theres alot of heavy talk going on in here,

Some one that takes a few pills at the weekend aren't drug addicts and aren't the scum of society are they really? The majority of ecstasy users wont spend there days shop lifting or mugging little old ladies.

[philipl]

Your case is indeed very simple .

Basically it is that because some harmful substances are legal ALL harmful substances should be made legal - regardless of the degree to which they damage both the individual and society as a whole .

Today in town (on one of my very infrequent visits) I came across a couple of druggies who , to be honest , were an embarrassment to the human race and of no good whatsoever to society . True , it could be said that many alcos are in the same boat but the question always remains ......Do people want the government of this nation to actively collude in destroying the lives of its own citizens by making the most dangerous of drugs legal and taking a cut in the profits made of such sales ?

Yes I do.

It is no different from Government doing the same with tobacco for which the cold facts are:

- removes ten years' high quality of life ON AVERAGE from every user

- will kill more people in the next twenty years than were killed by the Second World War and Stalin combined

I would far rather have Government raking the profits than the Taliban, Yardies, UDA, IRA, Mafia and street gangs making billions. I want to see a 10% drop (at least) in most other forms of crime because there are no longer desperate people trying to find cash to pay criminals. I want to see insurance premiums go down. I do not want to see drug users in jail because it is completely bonkers putting them there.

Some of the money raised by could be used to fund serious rehabilitation and prevention programmes rather than the weedy efforts at present by a dedicated but vastly overwhelmed and underfunded group of people in the field.

Criminalisation of drugs is zero deterrent, be it zero tolerance, cold turkey or confusion.

The scenario of Government taking the profits would be a huge improvement.

Edited September 8, 2007 by philipl