[Archived] Drugs

[blue phil]

THIS LINK is vaguely relevant to the discussion in that it illustrates the damage that addiction does to people - addictions that our own unworldly Philipl would like to add to for the sole reasons that there are other harmful substances out there already legal (though not in the same soul destroying league) and it could prove to be a nice cash cow for the government . Maybe , using that logic , they should make tobacco and alcohol more readily available to the vulnerable in society . Think of the treasury coffers !

As per usual there is no explanation from the self proclaimed intellectual as to how and where the drug crazies are going to raise the funds to buy the drugs from their new suppliers , HMG ? Plus there's the extra VAT I assume

Oh all right then I admit it .....I've only posted the link because of the wonderful comment from the bloke at the bottom of the piece . Obviously not an intellectual but equally obviously he inhabits the real world ....

[philipl]

Blue Phil has just posted this on the Smoking thread:

"That's what is being denied people - freedom of choice . When some ignorant bugger used to smoke near me in the pub ....I'd simply move away . Relying on Nanny State to intervene is a bit pathetic IMO."

[Oakland]

"M'kay, smoking is bad; you shouldn't smoke. And alcohol is bad; you shouldn't drink alcohol, M'Kay. And as for drugs, well, drugs are bad; you shouldn't do drugs, M'Kay. That's about wraps it up, M'Kay."

- Mr. Mackey (South Park)

[blue phil]

Blue Phil has just posted this on the Smoking thread:

"That's what is being denied people - freedom of choice . When some ignorant bugger used to smoke near me in the pub ....I'd simply move away . Relying on Nanny State to intervene is a bit pathetic IMO."

Glad you're keeping up with my scribblings

The difference between smoking and "drugs" is that one is legal and the other illegal .

Another difference is the extent of the damage done to society and to the families of hard drug addicts . If we're simply talking about "soft" drugs then I suppose you may have a point .....but then you believe in decriminalising ALL drugs don't you ?

I just believe it the gov't should lay its cards on the table - if smoking is that bad then outlaw it completely . Until they do then persecution of smokers whilst taking their taxes is hypocritical to say the least .

[philipl]

Chief Constable advocates legalisation of all drugs

[bblue]

Chief Constable advocates legalisation of all drugs

But he notes that figures from the Chief Medical Officer have found that, in Scotland, 13,000 people died from tobacco-related use in 2004 while 2,052 died as a result of alcohol. Illegal drugs, meanwhile, accounted for 356 deaths

That's not a fact that many will acknowledge

[philipl]

Tobacco consumption is down to about 22% now isn't it? About the same proportion of the population that admits to taking illegal substances.

[bellamy11]

Tobacco consumption is down to about 22% now isn't it? About the same proportion of the population that admits to taking illegal substances.

Nearly a quarter of the population take illegal substances?

[philipl]

Amongst young people, the rates of 15 year olds trying cannibis (40%) are about the same as the numbers trying tobacco.

In the population as a whole, 13% have taken cannibis within the past 12 months according to official statistics. Cocaine usage by 4% of the population and heroin by about 3.5%.

[philipl]

Soaring rates of A&E admissions because of alcohol

[KimberleyBRFC]

The article refers to class A drugs in general. Cocaine makes up most of the Class A drug use in the UK, and has relatively few fatalities which makes the statistics for Class A drugs in general misleading. If the statistic were for heroin only, it would probably be more clear how destructive it is comparative to tobacco.

Legalising cannabis is something I'm in favour of, as the current law criminalises a large number of people who are otherwise law-abiding citizens (the strong link between heroin and crack usage and crime puts these drugs in particular apart).

There maybe relatively few fatalities involving the likes of Cocaine but I for one would love to see the statistics of the people who have been killed not using drugs but by people who have been 'off their heads' on 'Coke' due to paranoia etc.

[blue phil]

Soaring rates of A&E admissions because of alcohol

Terrible statistics .

But what exactly is your agenda here , Philip ?

Do you really think that everything is going to improve by legalising drugs , of which many are vastly more dangerous and addictive than alcohol ? Why do you emphasise the problems of alcohol whilst silmultaneously bombarding us with links advocating the easier access of hard drugs ?

Your argument seems to rest on the premise that because alcohol is legal and can be abused by the feeble minded then all dangerous substances should be given the green light .

A more moral and common sense approach would be to try and minimise the alcohol problems in society and by stepping up the war on drugs .

HERE is a link that is more relevant than the ramblings of a copper who hasn't the stomach to do his job and uphold the law . I wonder if cannabis helped or hindered this loonie in his mission on earth .

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

"Lib Dem leadership contender can't remember calling for Class A drugs to be legalised"

Chris Huhne wrote: "The considerable number of students at this university who drop acid [LSD] are well-balanced, highly intelligent people."

But my view is that 'dropping acid' can be highly dangerous. Syd Barrett - the ex-guitarist with Pink Floyd who died last year - being one example of somebody for whom the psychedelic experience seems to have done much damage.

[FourLaneBlue]

Fewer young people using cannabis after reclassification

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Take drugs and get free golf clubs and new sportswear at the taxpayers' expense

We live in a country where many British people have been denied effective life saving cancer drugs due to limited funds within the NHS - and yet it seems that there's no problem in funding junkies to get free golf clubs and sportswear.

Have we really got our priorities right as a society ? What about poor young people in the community who would like free golf clubs but are law-abiding and behave themselves ? Why can't these people be rewarded or do we just have to reward the junkies to try to get them away from committing more crimes ?

[blue phil]

HERE is a link highlighting the cost of the so-called rehabilitation that certain naive posters feel should accompany the legalisation of all drugs .

So we would have the taxpayer (ie , those of us not living in tax exile ) paying for both the distribution of hard drugs by the government - and for the non existent "cures" for the effects of such drugs .

Better just to shove all dealers inside for a very lengthy stretch and stick the druggies in a closed cell next to them until they dry out .

[BuckyRover]

I like drugs (only the good ones though)

[thenodrog]

I'm afraid to say that I'm clueless about drugs Bucky so which drugs are you recommending?

[blue phil]

I like drugs (only the good ones though)

Do us all a favour , Bucky . Take a very large amount of them ......all at once . Plus some more just to be on the safe side .

....and wash it all down with a few bottles of whisky

[philipl]

I am completely opposed to the use of all drugs including tobacco except alcohol and have rarely indulged in that to excess and would urge/encourage everyone else to stay clean.

I am not disputing that drugs cause harm and unpredictable harm depending on the psyche and physiology of the user.

But we've reached the point that

- perhaps 10% of global GDP is controlled by narco gangs

- the largest single commercial enterprise in Italy is drugs running

- our insurance premiums on everything are at least 15% higher than they should be because of drug crime

- criminalisation is completely screwing up getting help to those vulnerable individuals who need help

In other words criminal prohibition of drugs is a completely failed and discredited way of tackling the issue.

[blue phil]

But we've reached the point that

- "perhaps 10% of global GDP is controlled by narco gangs" ...............which you would like replaced by governments

- "the largest single commercial enterprise in Italy is drugs running" .........if you can't beat the mafia , join them .

- "our insurance premiums on everything are at least 15% higher than they should be because of drug crime" ................it still would be - unless , of course , you advocate , distribution of drugs at the taxpayers expense , which amounts to the same thing really .

- "criminalisation is completely screwing up getting help to those vulnerable individuals who need help" .............read the link in my last post , don't just ignore it . "Vulnerable" individuals aren't being helped in any significant numbers despite the massive cost to the taxpayers .

"In other words criminal prohibition of drugs is a completely failed and discredited way of tackling the issue" ................liberal policies pursued by successive governments in relation to drug users and pushers has patently failed . Time to take the gloves off - the law abiding , vulnerable people of this nation deserve it .

[jim mk2]

Not that he has alot to beat, but that's Enoch's best post ever

[blue phil]

It would be if I knew how to quote multiple posts ......

[BuckyRover]

Do us all a favour , Bucky . Take a very large amount of them ......all at once . Plus some more just to be on the safe side .

....and wash it all down with a few bottles of whisky

Whisky contains Alcohol which is in fact, a drug

[blue phil]

Dear God .......whisky contains alcohol !!

Thank you , Bucky .

I'll try and remember that one