[Archived] Tugay - Who Next?

[G Somerset Rover]

Aparently Sparky is mulling over the idea of offering the magician that is Tugay a new deal!

[ElTwis]

Aparently Sparky is mulling over the idea of offering the magician that is Tugay a new deal!

Really? Don't get me wrong, Toogs is a legend but at some point age has to catch up with him!

I can't see him being able to play in as many games as Hughes would like this season let alone next simply because of the pace the premiership is played at nowadays. Perhaps an idea would be to sign a youngster and have him and Tugay share the responsibility of the creative midfield spot.

That way there would be less pressure on both, we get to keep a crowd favourite and huge influence in the dressing room as long as possible and the youngster is ushered in by the best.

[Fife Rover]

Really? Don't get me wrong, Toogs is a legend but at some point age has to catch up with him!

I can't see him being able to play in as many games as Hughes would like this season let alone next simply because of the pace the premiership is played at nowadays. Perhaps an idea would be to sign a youngster and have him and Tugay share the responsibility of the creative midfield spot.

That way there would be less pressure on both, we get to keep a crowd favourite and huge influence in the dressing room as long as possible and the youngster is ushered in by the best.

Yes, I like it! A sort of Tugs Understudy! Is there nobody on the books at present that could fulfill this requirement?

Edited September 30, 2006 by Fife Rover

[joey_big_nose]

Yes, I like it! A sort of Tugs Understudy! Is there nobody on the books at present that could fulfill this requirement?

hughes has obviously experimented with Bentley performing the Tugay role (ie. lying deep and playmaking) several times, most recently in preseason and at the start of the season but so far it has been unsuccessful, especially when compared to his rapidly improving performances on the right.

i think we would have to sign someone in, must be a priority in january with all the cash we saved up in the summer.

[rover6]

In terms of a composed central midfielder who can pass, we don't have anyone other than Tugay - which is a problem.

[92er]

Aparently Sparky is mulling over the idea of offering the magician that is Tugay a new deal!

Yes, it was on teletext today. It sounded as though it would depend on his Indian summer continuing.

[gumboots]

Can't see a problem with his being offered a new contract as long as we don't expect him to play all the games. Craig Short stayed at Rovers whilst hardly playing just because he was such a good example to younger players and could still play some part in the first team

[pick32]

well if charlton are still in relegation zone come january i think a move for darren ambrose would be good. He is young and a good quick talented central midfielder. Might take him a couple of seasons to get to the level we nede but he would be a good investment.

[Bennisfromheaven]

Tugay should definetly get a new deal if sparky thinks he deserves it! The guy is a legend & his skills are a dying breed in the premiership. Yeah, hes not getting any younger but either is teddy sheringham! If he can TAKE PART in 20 - 25 games a season then happy days & blackburn will be better off for it!!

[Eddie]

I'm sure that he will get a new deal if Hughes thinks that he deserves it, I would presume that is how it works. However, the fact that Sheringham or Speed can play to a ripe old age (for a premiership footballer) doesn't mean that everyone can and that we should hold onto Tugay just because he has been a good player. He was wonderful last season, but he needs to prove himself again this year in around 15 matches before we should consider offering him a new deal.

[Exiled_Rover]

Don't get me wrong, the man is an absolute legend. He's been an incredibly good player for Rovers, but his time has passed. The ball skills are still there, but the athleticism isn't. Quite frankly the man is a liablity, everytime he takes the field our midfield gets run over.

Having said that, if Sparky thinks he can do a job, who am I to argue?

[RevidgeBlue]

I think there are already signs that this season might be one too far for the great man, I'm sure next season definitely would be.

[Paul Mellelieu]

It's all about opinions....

but to call the Turk a liability is wide of the mark. Maybe your exile means you didn't see his performance during the week.

[Gav]

The ball skills are still there, but the athleticism isn't. Quite frankly the man is a liablity, everytime he takes the field our midfield gets run over.

A very controversial statement Exiled Rover, I guess you're mainly referring to the City game where tactically we were inept. Tugay has a place in our midfield but tactics have to be right to accommodate him. His contribution is still top notch for me and we have nobody else who can see a pass like Tugay, in fact not many teams in the Premiership have a player who an see a pass like Tugay.

Sign him up.

[Exiled_Rover]

A very controversial statement Exiled Rover, I guess you're mainly referring to the City game where tactically we were inept. Tugay has a place in our midfield but tactics have to be right to accommodate him. His contribution is still top notch for me and we have nobody else who can see a pass like Tugay, in fact not many teams in the Premiership have a player who an see a pass like Tugay.

Sign him up.

Controversial in the fact that Premiership calibre players run past him like he's not there?

I agree, given time, he's one of the best passers in the Premiership, but you're asking an incredible amount from his midfield partner - Savage at the moment, the best suited man in our team to handling it I suppose - who has to do the running of two men. This is one of our main problems - Savage (not that he's any good at it anyway, but I digress) is too busy/knackered doing Tugay's defensive work, as well as his own, to be able to break late into the box and provide that goal threat from midfield.

It's all about opinions....

but to call the Turk a liability is wide of the mark. Maybe your exile means you didn't see his performance during the week.

I've got a season ticket in the Jack Walker stand, so no, that's not the reason.

[Gav]

Controversial in the fact that Premiership calibre players run past him like he's not there?

Even in his younger days players ran past him like he wasn't there, its not an age thing he's not that type of player and never has been. I take your point but clearly we're a better footballing side when Tugay is playing and against the better sides that allow us to play football he still has a role to play for me.

We need a replacement and quick. My thoughts on Dunn are well documented but if he can make the step up we have a ready made replacement and he wants to come back. Unfortunately he's not had a decent season since our promotion season from the championship so he's got a lot of work to do to make the grade.

David its over to you..........

[ElTwis]

Hang on Exiled, Savage isn't in the team to provide a goal-scoring threat, he's a defensive midfielder there to ensure players like Tugay don't have to concentrate on defending and have time to pick out passes just like they did on Thursday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Tugay doesn't have defensive duties, a deep lieing midfielder always will, but it's down to Savage to break up the oppositions plays and protect the back 4 which I personally think he's been doing pretty well so far this season

[pleasure]

Don't get me wrong, the man is an absolute legend. He's been an incredibly good player for Rovers, but his time has passed. The ball skills are still there, but the athleticism isn't. Quite frankly the man is a liablity, everytime he takes the field our midfield gets run over.

eh?

unbeaten in 6 games, 4 straight wins!

our form has improved dramatically since 'the liability' has returned!

what games do people watch ? or is that the problem ?

[Exiled_Rover]

More down to the back four gelling and the front two tearing their defence to pieces with their movement - even Jeffers got in on the act on Sunday.

Yes, Tugay can pass, but the amount of times players waltz past him is beyond a joke - I'd play him in a five man midfield, but not in a four, it puts too much pressure on the other three players.

As for Savage not being there as a goal threat - well I think you'll find that's my point, ideally you're getting 5 goals a season from one of your central midfielders. If nothing else their late runs create space for other players.

[CAPT KAYOS]

More down to the back four gelling

[pleasure]

More down to the back four gelling and the front two tearing their defence to pieces with their movement - even Jeffers got in on the act on Sunday.

Yes, Tugay can pass, but the amount of times players waltz past him is beyond a joke - I'd play him in a five man midfield, but not in a four, it puts too much pressure on the other three players.

[LeChuck]

As for Savage not being there as a goal threat - well I think you'll find that's my point, ideally you're getting 5 goals a season from one of your central midfielders. If nothing else their late runs create space for other players.

That's a very generic and almost dated view of how a midfield system works, ours is not one that is set up to provide a goal threat from the centre of the park.

Our midfield system reminds me of how Arsenal's used to work; Vieira (Savage) will run box-to-box, impose himself phsyically but never really be involved in the attacking side of things. Alongside him, Petit/Gilberto (Tugay) will sit deep, keep the ball moving and try to start attacks, ensuring that their partner is able to go about imposing themselves all over the pitch without fear of being caught short in the middle. The goal-threat from midfield comes from two wide players whom would not normally be considered 'wingers', Ljungberg and Pires (Bentley and Pedersen). Both will rarely beat a man on the outside and put in a cross, instead choosing to make central runs into the area to support the front men. To ensure width is not lacking, athletic full-backs in the shape of Cole and Lauren (Emerton and Neill) are deployed with the instructions of supporting attacks at all times, working up a good relationship with their midfield counterpart.

Ok, Arsenal had far more success with theirs but they were operating it with a far higher calibre of player, but the basic model remains the same. I've been saying for some time now that it is Tugay who enables us to play a fluid 4-4-2 system because he's the only one who can sit deep and create from there, Mokoena is better defensively but is terrible in possession and usually puts us straight back under pressure again after winning the ball.

Edit: That isn't to say Tugay's success in the role isn't diminishing with age, I also believe it is. My point is that he is still needed in the majority of games to make our midfield work and his presence isn't what's holding Savage back from scoring more, it's the way the tactics are designed to get goals from wide areas as opposed to central ones.

We need a replacement and quick. My thoughts on Dunn are well documented but if he can make the step up we have a ready made replacement and he wants to come back.

Dunn can never replace Tugay, in fact it's unlikely there will be a place for him in any central midfield in modern football, players of his style are pushed out wide or behind a front man...even Ronaldinho and Zidane have/had to deal with it. Although Bentley has seemingly found his position on the right, he does have the makings of a potential Tugay replacement, should he be willing to sacrifice the glory of scoring goals for creating from deep. His passing and awareness are excellent and he's not afraid to fly into a tackle. Ok, he'll never be Roy Keane, but players like Carrick have shown you don't have to be to play that position effectively...a disciplined positional attitude can be just as effective.

It's difficult to see where an external replacement would come from...it would most likely be abroad as players of that kind are still quite rare in this country, the only realistic option would have been Pedro Mendes but Portsmouth's masses of cash will probably see him out of our reach now.

Edited October 2, 2006 by LeChuck

[OJRovers]

Not sure if its already been mentioned but looking back now, should we have found the extra cash for Petrov? he would've fit the bill

[Eddie]

Had we found the extra cash in August I doubt we would have got him. Villa would have matched us and I am sure that he would have chosen to link up with his old manager. If we had wanted to make a move the best time would have been earlier in the summer or back in the January window (that was complicated by him signing a new window). The only real shame is that a young, yet experienced, affordable, realistic and identified target slipped through our grasp and went to a rival club. Hopefully Hughes and the team will be hot on the case and finding another option to come in during the January window (please God not Dunn, I think the physio earns his wages as it is).

[rover6]

LeChuck, I think you've gone amiss by comparing our midfield system to Arsenal. Superficially it is similar but if you delve a little deep we are a lot different.

Arsenal played with a double-pivot (and still do) - namely they play with two central midfielders who hold the fort and do not really break forward into the box to score goals. Vieira did not get forward - rather he and Petit formed a very solid double in the centre to allow the full backs and the wide players freedom to get forward without excessive concern about defensive gaps appearing.

With Rovers, we have Tugay who is alone in playing deep and looking to create with incisive passing, whilst the A.Nother alongside him (Savage/Reid) look to get up and down the pitch.

In the modern game, Rovers are almost unique in playing a deep-lying playmaker - and arguably it means we are easier to beat.

Benitez could play Alonso deep alongside Gerrard - in a Rovers style midfield couple. However, usually he opts not to, shunting Gerrard out wide to provide Alonso defensive support in the form of Sissoko. And hasn't David Moyes shoved Mikel Arteta out to the left flank to accommodate the more rugged pair of Carsley and Neville centrally?

When people say we need to replace Tugay, many think we need to find a like player - as in a playmaker. I disagree. We need to fall into the mainstream and replace Tugay with a holding midfielder who can not only hold but defend.

Edited October 2, 2006 by rover6