[Archived] Academy - Young Guns

[cn174]

The person who sits behind me at home games , who goes to all the away games, as well as many Reserve and Youth games, has said that the Youth teams tend to play very direct football-i.e. with tall strikers and not much concentration on skill.

382978[/snapback]

I know we dont have the same manager now, but when recruiting younger players Rovers have always gone for big, strong players who work hard and well together and assume that in time they will gain more technical skills. Other teams, I'm thinking of Man United in particular, tend to pick skillful players/with lots of technical ability and teach them formations, how to work better together etc as the years go on.

Definately at the younger age groups this is very evident, and to a certain extent it must filter up to the u18s team. Although I have to say even thought the game against Derby was poor, all the players did look comfortable on the ball and able to pass quite well.

[philipl]

We are out of the FA Youth Cup courtesy of a howler by the England (and Rovers') keeper two minutes from full time.

But for that we'd be in the next round and the Coach would be a genius for turning round a one goal deficit.

In terms of economics, the Academy is long term.

Downside is £2m+ out of the door every year.

Upsides are:

- Occasional Dunn/Duff transfer fees

- Sell on clauses kicking in (Beattie and perhaps Danns, Bruce or Johnson from Brum to come)

- Occasional fees for players sold (Johnson and perhaps Gally, Dougles and Harkins to come)

- Savings on transfer fees payable (how much would we have to pay to buy Johnson and Peter or their equivalents as squad members?)

- Savings on wages (they are probably earning half equivalent players would have been paid bought in but this is a temporary advantage until they command a new contract)

Taken over a ten, fifteen or twenty year cycle (and that is how any R&D facility ought to be evaluated although you manage them very much for the here and now to keep them on their toes), the Academy and its predecessors wash their faces.

JW has clearly told them what they have to do in future- produce a dozen Prem squad players for the Rovers over the next two to three seasons.

It seems that it might fall short in that objective but it probably will continue to cover its costs in the overall scheme of things.

Edited February 10, 2006 by philipl

[den]

We are out of the FA Youth Cup courtesy of a howler by the England (and Rovers') keeper two minutes from full time.

But for that we'd be in the next round and the Coach would be a genius for turning round a one goal deficit.

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We're out of the youth cup because we weren't good enough on the night Philipl. As for the comments on Gary Bowyers tactics on the night being one of the reasons for the team losing the game, I think they're valid.

As for the worth of the academy, it's been debated before, but I do think you've given a biased summary of the upsides/downsides. For the past few seasons all the academy has done is produce good, cheap young players for the lower league teams.

Can our academy produce enough youngsters of prem quality? No-one knows that.

[waggy]

the big problem is blooding the players in the 1st team,it looks like danns may have been let go a little early,but producing in the 3rd division is a long way from the premier.i honestly believe once the season is over,no relagation we should be giving young lads a go,ok some might say we can make europe,and 500k place but as philip says the academy has to produce players.if the lads do not get a chance we will never know if they are good enough, maybe the club should shut the academy down and but the 2 million a year into the transfer kitty,and pick up other academy rejects as squad players,we could pick up 2 bentleys a season

[Exiled_Rover]

We're out of the youth cup because we weren't good enough on the night Philipl. As for the comments on Gary Bowyers tactics on the night being one of the reasons for the team losing the game, I think they're valid.

As for the worth of the academy, it's been debated before, but I do think you've given a biased summary of the upsides/downsides.  For the past few seasons all the academy has done is produce good, cheap young players for the lower league teams.

Can our academy produce enough youngsters of prem quality? No-one knows that.

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We're the new Man Utd in that respect!

In fairness to the Academy though, Peter looks like a player, as did Gallagher and McEverley (sp?) before hitting a rough patch of form.

[gazsimm]

who from the academy do u reckon has a bright future ahead with us at rovers?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I can't beleive that people question the worth of the academy.

I believe that is our only chance of breaking out of mid-table mediocrity.

Lets be realistic - we wouldn't be able to afford a Duff or Dunn these days. But while we have an academy we have a chance that one will spring forward.

Also, lets not forget that many people put down the dwindling crowds to losing players that the public had an affinity for. What better way than a youngster coming through the ranks ?

As has been pointed out, these players are often on lower wages as squad players and therefore make economic sense.

Lets put the FA defeat into perspective - it is very rare that a significant number of a youth team go on to make it in football (let alone get in a Premiership team). Only United have done that in recent years - but in reality it was a bit of a fluke.

I will be happy if two or three of the players that played the other night looked like they had potential to make the first team squad.

The club are also doing an excellent job by promoting these youngsters into the reserve team set up as soon as possible. Lets give them a bit of credit

Edited February 10, 2006 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[Presty On Tour]

I can't beleive that people question the worth of the academy.

I believe that is our only chance of breaking out of mid-table mediocrity.

Lets be realistic - we wouldn't be able to afford a Duff or Dunn these days. But while we have an academy we have a chance that one will spring forward.

Also, lets not forget that many people put down the dwindling crowds to losing players that the public had an affinity for. What better way than a youngster coming through the ranks ?

As has been pointed out, these players are often on lower wages as squad players and therefore make economic sense.

Lets put the FA defeat into perspective - it is very rare that a significant number of a youth team go on to make it in football (let alone get in a Premiership team). Only United have done that in recent years - but in reality it was a bit of a fluke.

I will be happy if two or three of the players that played the other night looked like they had potential to make the first team squad.

The club are also doing an excellent job by promoting these youngsters into the reserve team set up as soon as possible. Lets give them a bit of credit 

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couldn't of said it any better mate

well played

[Hughesy]

Taylor, Barker & Welch.

There are a few others too who are on the edge like Peter, Johnson & Derbyshire

who from the academy do u reckon has a bright future ahead with us at rovers?

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[Hughesy]

Id say the academy is well worth it! Just to name a few -

Dunn - £5 million

Duff - £17 million

Damian Johnson

Martin Taylor - £2 million

Gally & Douglas - Currently on loan and im sure Championship clubs would pay money for them after this season.

[mode_m]

Please let the next Ronaldhino be in the Rovers academy.

I agree, it's a great academy and in my opinion one of the best in the prem. Totally worth it.

[JAL]

To whoever criticised the coach for the youth team on wednesday night , how can you criticise him for the tactics employed because they were just like the first team, playing 4-4-2.

The coach made the right decision to move one of the wide players into the middle and take off Perzonni bringing on Treacy plus subbing DeVita for Garner. The first decision worked well and was an improvement to the team but the second decision with Joe Garner was'nt as effective as the first you could easily have subbed the sub JG.

If your full backs can get up and support, but then cross the ball into the empty stand instead of the strikers what can you do?

Theres only point i would make and its purely because of the class of players is the passing of the ball forward early, this to me is correct but if the player cant make apass from forty yards then they should be asked to carry it a further twenty yards and try the pass from half the distance.

[den]

Blimey, I start off by giving my version of the youth game on Wednesday and finish up being accused of running the academy down.

The only point I've ever made, is that the academy up to now, would struggle to justify it's existence based on financial grounds. Assuming of course, that you don't count Duff and Dunn, as they were at the club before the academy was in existence.

Nowhere have I said that we should close the place.

[JAL]

Blimey, I start off by giving my version of the youth game on Wednesday and finish up being accused of running the academy down.

The only point I've ever made, is that the academy up to now, would struggle to justify it's existence based on financial grounds. Assuming of course, that you don't count Duff and Dunn, as they were at the club before the academy was in existence.

Nowhere have I said that we should close the place.

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Know what you mean.

[waggy]

i am the biggest advocate off youth but when times are hard which they certianly are now,2 million a year is a lot off money to lay out for little return.forget duff and dunn they were at the rovers pre academy,happen we could go back to pre academy status.maybe we over trianing these lads,maybe they are not allowed to blossom in there own way?i have had the fortune to visit the academy before sparky did his changes and i have a few views on there methods but the academy must be in danger if our gates keep dropping,and we have to keep making cuts

[1864roverite]

Rovers have signed the next Irish Prodigy after pipping chelsea and manure for the signing of gavin dunning, aged 15.

The academy must have made some impressions

[FourLaneBlue]

From what John Williams has been saying recently The Academy will be gaining in importance to Rovers, not receding. The interviews suggest a future vision of Rovers only bringing in players who can go straight into the first team. Future squad members will have to be filled by The Academy. Hopefully this will mean more chances for our younger players rather than playing more experienced players who aren't up to it anymore - e.g. the last few years of Flitcroft or bringing in Amoruso.

In Peter, Barker, Garner and Taylor we certainly have some players who might be able to make the step up in the future but they can't do that if not given the chance. It's not a chicken and egg scenario - they have to be involved in the first team at some stage. Danns was never given a real chance at Rovers yet his performances at Colchester suggest that he could have been a decent squad player for us.

There seems to be a feeling that if you bring in a youngster that we will automatically lose points. Well...not necessarily. A lot of the time you can't judge how good a player is until given the chance. Reserve team football isn't the same. The manager has to find the right time to blood these young players without it affecting our game. Often it seems that managers are too cautious. Ferguson rarely worries about putting in the youngsters, neither should we with the few young players we have that reach that standard. United have loads of quality youth players...we have far less. Yet we should make sure those few do get a chance. It'd help the fans feel closer to the club if there are some out there who are 'one of our own' to watch rather than just another overpaid journeyman with no connection to t'Rovers!

[philipl]

I think you'll find United almost halved the size of their youth set-up. Fortunately, we are not run by the Glazers.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

In reference to the '59 youth team , although Newton, England and Pickering all became international stars Griffiths,Ratcliffe,Bradshaw and Paddy Daly all played for Rovers first team and the other four lads all played league football ,Vinnie Leach having a long and distinguished career at Bury and Rochdale.

[92er]

Only England, Pickering and Newton were first division quality players from the 59 youth team.

Since the Academy started Douglas, Gallagher, Danns, McEveley and Peter have played for the first team.

Danns, a Liverpool reject, was considered not good enough by 2 managers and was releaed by Hughes.

Douglas plays regularly for Leeds but is never mentioned in reports I read.

McEveley made a promising start for the first few matches in the first team and has gone backwards since. A major question about him.

I would love Gallagher to make it with us- a local lad who has scored goals for us in the top division, but 2 managers appear to have questions about him.

In my opinion there should be more questions about the way the Academy is being run. Premiership quality players are not being produced and I don't know if it's because we can't attract good enough players or if the coaching is not good enough to help youngsters achieve their potential once they get to us.

[andrew92]

apparently we paid 200000 pound less than both arsenal and chelsea were offering for the young irish lad, mate of mine had dinner with scouts last night

[92er]

Don't forget we bet MU to sign Keith Brown.

[pick32]

i think garner will have a good future and hopefully Mcevely will be given a chance along side tayor and gallagher. wasnt alex bruce from our acadamy

[waggy]

alex bruce was bombed out off the rovers when the savage transfer turned nasty,i think having ste bruce watching his son play for rovers was touching someone's nerves

[92er]

In reference to the '59 youth team , although Newton, England and Pickering all became international stars Griffiths,Ratcliffe,Bradshaw and Paddy Daly all played for Rovers first team and the other four lads all played league football ,Vinnie Leach having a long and distinguished career at Bury and Rochdale.

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Which means that Johnny Carey's youth team was the best by a mile.

I was concentrating on players who made it in the top division but I take your point.