[Archived] Why?

[Blue blood]

If only all friendlies were as exciting as this. A top class game from both sides, excellent end to end stuff, great goals, great saves, a dramatic finish, there wasn't much more you could have asked for.

At 2-1 down I thought England had lost it and thought in the last twenty minutes or so the game was slipping away from us, what with the argies trying every trick, legit and not-so legit, to slow the game down. However the fact that we still managed to grind out the win despite this is really encouraging. In the past England would have let such a game slip away from them and been satisfied with a good performance, maybe the recent kick up the backside against northern ireland has done its job.

On a couple of players who have had a lot of publicity; I thought Lampard's shooting was woeful for someone of his class and crouch wasn't so bad, although as already stated it was his presence rather than anything he did. I still feel that if asked to contribute more than an uncomfortable presence, which in a world cup is likely, that he'd come up short. Beattie would be a better bet as the target man from the bench role imo based on recent form.

The formation 4-1-3-2 seems the best bet, and gives us a bit more solidity in midfield. I'd like to see us play this in the world cup. When King went off I thought we lacked someone to break up the play and win us back possession which in part contributed to England's lack of possession in the last 20 minutes. It also allows for the attacking option of switching back to 4-4-2 should we need a more attacking formation later on. On another note, the substitutions seemed to work, although I'd have been tempted to take a full back off earlier when Cole came on and leave 3 at the back. Whilst on about substitutions I don't think the argies makling that many subs was helpful, even if it was a friendly, and the resulting loss of cohesiveness played a part in our victory.

Despite it being an excellent performance there were one or two problems which hopefully won't be overlooked. Why on earth was Bridge played having had only 60 minutes top class football? This was another shocking decision by Sven and could have been more costly. Also the excellent defending was let down by shocking marking for Argentina's second goal and highlights that 100% concentration for the whole game is needed against top class teams.

Overall though a very encouraging step before the world cup and excellent entertainment.

[Eddie]

A player who I thought was impressive was Beckham. He was involved in virtually everything that England did that was good. What I also noticed was that he seemed to have that drive back in his game, he was getting around the pitch and really troubling the opposition, he's been in good form for Real Madrid this season and it was good to see him play like that for England again.

[JAL]

The arrival of Peter Crouch changed the game.

360324[/snapback]

The substitution of Requelme when Argentina thought they had the game wrapped up at 2-1 with ten minutes or so to go changed it in Englands favour. Commentator Greame Le saux went to great lengths to point it out.

Can you see the Argentinians making the same mistake twice when we meet again, i know i cant, but what a great result and performance never the less from England - exiting stuff.

[bazza]

Cracking game. Thoroughly enjoyable. Best friendly I've ever seen.

The best team lost.

Do not get complacent, England. If we meet the Argies in the finals it will be a different and much more difficult game to win.

But what super entertainment today!

[Paul]

Great game, really good to watch. If we can have more like that England will be worth watching for the first time in round 3-4 years. Didn't Le Saux talk a load of rubbish, all night long, good grief he's bad.

[Al]

Superb game, Argies deserved a draw. Crouch is not international class. Forget him.

[broadsword]

It need to be Hargreaves. The lad is playing regularly for a team who have one of the best set of midfield options in the world. So far his England career has been a joke - brought on by Sven with ten minutes left and needing a goal.

Gerrard has to make way because Lampard has been very good at international level and Gerrard has consistantly failed to impress. Hargreaves can sit and allow Lamps to go forward.

358986[/snapback]

Hargreaves is one of the most over-rated players ever.

[blue phil]

Gerrard is always capable of producing something special in times of need . Hargreaves never will be able to do that .

[Welshrover1981]

Is it me or were England quite lucky to beat the argies 3-2. Dont get me wrong here, Rooney was outstanding and has added that World Quality to the England side, and Robinson has firmly set his stall to command an England place for a fair few years to come. However, the Argies were all over England in the first half and for large parts of the second half until they scored the second to put england back into life. The Argies number 8 Requelme was by far the best player on the pitch before he got taken off (which I think cost the argies the game) and England didnt know what to do with him.

Plus Crouch is very lucky to get into the England side at present. It is only because England do not have another Premiership 'BIG MAN' that they seem to go for Crouch.

Overated, and the only ability he has got is that he is a lanky lad. Face it, he cant even head the ball properly and his goal tally for this season says it all. A BIG FAT 0.

Joe Cole did alright on the left when he came on and he is one which I like because he is not afraid to take players on no matter who they play for. Just ashame his final touch, pass, shot never comes off.

ENGLAND will not win the World Cup and have got a long way to go to prove themselves in the final stages.

PS before you do the Welsh comments. I know Wales are ###### and lets face it Wales will never get into a major championship. In fact, Wales should not pull out of the Olympic squad as it is the closest thing which we will ever come to in being in a Championship final.

[thenodrog]

The best team lost.

360359[/snapback]

eh? imo it could easily have been 7-4 for England but for the post and some truly sensational saves by thier keeper from Rooneys chip and point blank efforts from Owen and Beckham. Furthermore Lampard failed to score when he sent two or three screamers narrowly wide / high from perfect positions, just how often do expect to see that? I am not belittling argentina and I know that we could have been 2 down early on which would have changed the game entirely but they could easily have suffered a Germanesque type drubbing on another day.

One confusing point was that the pundits all praised Ferdinands performance but imo he was as he usually is......average to poor. So often he goes for the ball with his boot raised 6ft off the ground when he should be heading the damned thing. A liability, and in a key position too.

[philipl]

I agree about Ferdinand- in a theoretical world, if he were at Rovers, he'd get picked ahead of Todd, would be a toss-up between him and Zura and no way would he push Nelsen out of the team. We were poor defensively as a unit for both the Argentine goals (and the three early chances and the Crespo off-side goal). Terry was not his normal self but then Ferdinand is a long way short of the quality Terry is used to playing alongside. I'd have gone for Campbell who at least is a leader as well as gives a physical presence which was needed yesterday and will be needed against the very mobile big forwards we'll be facing if we last the distance in the World Cup.

At 2-1 down and 80 minutes gone, I was thinking that it was a shame we were going to get nothing out of the game as we deserved a draw at least....

so I disagree with the assertion that England were lucky.

It is incidentally the first time I've felt that SGE's in-game tactics have been good for a very long time.

The really good news about yesterday is that it will do our World rankings a power of good ahead of the draw in early December.

[LeChuck]

It is incidentally the first time I've felt that SGE's in-game tactics have been good for a very long time.

360458[/snapback]

Agreed...it seems he's realised we need a holding midfielder just in time. In fact, that's probably the first time we've had good performances out of Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham in the same game. I think that's down to having someone to do the dirty work behind them, Gerrard especially looked great on the left, maybe we can include all three together after all.

What would make that midfield perfect would be replacing King with a geniune defensive midfielder, either Carrick or Parker would ideal. King's alright at breaking up some attacks and his height is useful, but his distribution is woeful and his positioning could be better. Strikes me a little odd that King is ahead of Carrick when Spurs play Carrick in that role ahead of King.

Still, it's a massive improvement on what's gone before, King or not King.

[herbergeehh]

Scott Parker should have the quality needed for that holding role, I'd pick him over Carrick.

[philipl]

...and both Parker and Carrick ahead of King.

[blue phil]

Joe Cole did alright on the left when he came on and he is one which I like because he is not afraid to take players on no matter who they play for.  Just ashame his final touch, pass, shot never comes off.

360444[/snapback]

Joe Cole was quite excellent when he came on . His wonderful footwork and great final ball led directly to Owen's winning goal .

To change the subject slightly , does anyone agree with my point a few months ago that Sean Wright Philip's move to Chelsea was a monumantal error on his part . What chance now that he won't even make the squad if his chances of playing regularly at the Bridge continue to be so limited ?

[philipl]

Man City's bank manager and SWP's bank manager would definitely disagree.

I always felt SWP was the sort of player who could turn out to be a short term wonder- take the pace away and he is a basic Prem player.

His future at Chelsea in part depends on whether the bust up with Robben (who is very special) is terminal or not and in part on developing his all-round game to a much higher standard.

It is quite ridiculous that he cost more than Duff who is at least twice the player that SWP is.

[1864roverite]

Now then

what a long long weekend so far and oh how much pride do we English Sports fans feel today ?

Football - what a fantastic advert for the game, for the England Team and for the English football supporters. All we have heard is postiveness following this win. Even the media could not provide any adverse or negative press after this match.

Granted Argentina showed what a fantastic team they have, they play great one touch football with Riquelme at the hub. England also showed what we are capable of, they showed fight and togertherness, and with Rooney pulling the strings almost every team that has qualified will want to avoid us.

Rugby Union - absolutley tremendous. The myth of an unbeatable Aussie outfit has long gone. I watched the game and all we saw was fight, sportsmanship and pride. Yes the Aussies played their part but they were blown away by a far superior pack.

Rugby League - the pride is back in a Lions shirt. I only caught snippets of the game later on but what they did was simply not expected. Lets hope they continue next week and get tot he final.

Cricket - what can we say ? Aussie green and golds, beware, your crown as test cricket champions is hanging on its last threads. This England team has everything. Mssrs Flintoff and Harmison are unplayable, even on a dead pitch. Now we see the batting being held composed by the stand in captain. Surely tomorrow will see us pass 400 and firmly put us on the road to a 1-0 lead in the series.

I am now off to the club for a few pints of the golden stuff. It feels great today being English and long may it continue. I have never smiled as wide for ages until Micheal owen despatched the third goal. It simply erases the cheating madogonna handball all those years ago.

One final thing about the argies. Some of their fans placed a banner proclaiming The General Belgrano - some of you may not be aware of what this was, it was the biggest ever Argentinian warship that was sunk by the British during the Falklands conflict. How good it was that some sensible steard saw fit to tear it down. I mean, I dont ever recall ever seeing any English banner referring to the war

[rover6]

Agreed...it seems he's (Sven) realised we need a holding midfielder just in time. 

360461[/snapback]

Or Sven stumbled upon the blindingly obvious fortuitously when Gerrard got injured before a previous match and King replaced him, making an impact.

I always felt SWP was the sort of player who could turn out to be a short term wonder- take the pace away and he is a basic Prem player.

His future at Chelsea in part depends on whether the bust up with Robben (who is very special) is terminal or not and in part on developing his all-round game to a much higher standard

I strongly disagree with that. Shaun Wright-Phillips scored some scorchers for City, which indicates to me that he has more dimensions to his game than you are giving him credit for. He hasn't settled yet at Chelsea - no doubt staccato appearances are not helping a player accustomed to play 90 minutes of every game.

However, when he does establish himself as a Chelsea regular, I think he will prove what a talent he is.

Finally, I still think Michael Owen isn't amongst the world's best strikers; that's why he's at Newcastle. Although, I have to admit his finishing is reasonable.

[RoyRover]

Yesterday's game showed some of the best players in the world, playing at the top of their game. Rooney was brilliant yesterday. His effort that hit the post was brilliant, his goal was well taken and his chip from the edge of the box was out of this world. The only problem with all this is, what would England do without him?

I thought that Argentina were the better side and had better chances, but couldn't beat Paul Robinson. In Juan Riqualme, they had best player on the pitch and none of the English team could get close to him. Maxi Rodrguez and Carlos Tevez also had fine games and you could say that Tevez is to Argentina, what Rooney is to England. Roll on the World Cup, where Brazil will probably win it.

[FourLaneBlue]

Joe Cole was quite excellent when he came on . His wonderful footwork and great final ball led directly to Owen's winning goal .

  To change the subject slightly , does anyone agree with my point a few months ago that Sean Wright Philip's move to Chelsea was a monumantal error on his part . What chance now that he won't even make the squad if his chances of playing regularly at the Bridge continue to be so limited ?

360471[/snapback]

As I replied to Joey Big Nose on another topic when he stated that Sven only picks Beckham because of favouritsm and because he is the captain , the form of Beckham this season means he must be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Beckham at his best can win games on his own, however he has not consistently played like that for England for a few years. Whether or not Beckham deserved his place in the past is water under the bridge now, we have nobody to challenge on the right for the moment. Hoping SWP can start to shine for Chelsea and give the competition he hinted about when he was at City.

[joey_big_nose]

As I replied to Joey Big Nose on another topic when he stated that Sven only picks Beckham because of favouritsm and because he is the captain , the form of Beckham this season means he must be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Beckham at his best can win games on his own, however he has not consistently played like that for England for a few years. Whether or not Beckham deserved his place in the past is water under the bridge now, we have nobody to challenge on the right for the moment. Hoping SWP can start to shine for Chelsea and give the competition he hinted about when he was at City.

360605[/snapback]

Maybe I am just being spiteful, and I do recognise that Beckham has been playing well, I still think we would be a more dangerous side with a midfield four of

Cole-Lampard-Carrick/Parker-Gerrard.

Beckham works like a trojan and is arguably the best crosser in the world, dead or moving ball. But in terms of really hurting opposing full backs he does not have the range of talents of the likes of Cole, SWP and Gerrard.

Still, if he plays like he has been doing then it is hard to complain. If only the fecker could beat a man and had a bit of pace, eh.

[Presty On Tour]

well nice to see a good open game on saturday!!!

have to admit in alan hansen style the defending was very very poor, but on the bright side i can only see 1 of those defenders who played on saturday starting in the world cup once a.cole, neville return and sol sorts himself out to push out rio, bridge was poor and young to his credit tho has done alright.

quality game, had to raise it for this one, shame it wasn't crouch who bagged the winner.

[thenodrog]

What would make that midfield perfect would be replacing King with a geniune defensive midfielder, either Carrick or Parker would ideal.

360461[/snapback]

Disagree completely. What would make that midfield perfect first and foremost would be a quality player with a piggin left foot! How long it will take Downing to recover and how he develops or improves from then on is a biggy in our WC chances.

As for somebody saying that Beckhams playing better........ Yes he is and like Emerton at rovers it sometimes takes a threat the like of Wright-Phillips to focus the mind somewhat. He is also and without doubt one of our BIG players. The 'usual' Beckham is a world class winger though and only an 'England squad' quality mid-fielder. If he is not considered for the wing then we should not attempt to invent a position in the middle for him, his midfield weaknesses are insurmountable at international level.

[blue/white]

A few points that I was able to cobble together once I emerged from my catatonic state:

1. Watched a boat load of friendlies and play in matches on Saturday, was this the best one on tap? Brillant atmosphere, commitment and for the most part, fair play exhibited. The old codger in me appreciated the general goodwill exhibited by the players (helping each other up). That will go a long way in eraditicating the silly mistrust and ill will between our nations.

2. The stronger team did win Saturday, but the difference was truly evident whenever Paul Robinson made a play. He is rock steady, we’ve not had someone like that since Fillol… oh, how I miss the great ‘Pato’, heck, I’d settle for Pumpido!

3. We are getting old in some vital spots….. Ayala ‘s been beat up ever since a Paraguayan did his knee in the Greek Olympic final, Inter’s Captain fantastic, Zanetti is just returning from a long layoff and looked shakey at best & Samuel is a media creation, I’m afraid.

4. We didn’t have anyone that could keep pace with the inspired Rooney…. That ‘s a scary propostion! I fear this loss comes at a bad time in that it could potentially send our pysche for a loop with only 6 months remaining until the curtain goes up.

5. If the English media doesn’t cock things up for the team & a little fortune comes your way: I think you guys have a brillant chance to do some dancing in the streats ( if someone can knock the brasilians out) come next summer. it's the best English team I've ever seem (granted, i'm only 38).

[philipl]

Fair play blue and white. After watching the highlights of some other games, Brasil were only playing the UAE but they did score seven in awesome style in the second half- precisely we have a chance but WHO can knock the Brasilians out? Let's just hope they draw Germany in the last sixteen!!!

France and Germany was nothing particularly frightening- France are still a lot less than the sum of their parts and there are some less than convincing newcomers in their team. Italy were awesome in the Netherlands- of the continental Europeans, they are going to be the best value at the British bookies by far to win the World Cup.

England will be one bad bet- the bookies reckon £1.5 billion might be staked on an England victory.