[Archived] Rovers 0-2 Everton

[OJRovers]

Dont think Toddy deservses the critisism on here - he's still been playing well this season and has been solid with Nelson, he's prob found it harder being in/out the side.

Its lucky that we have 3 quality centre-backs which we can call on,

[Nayef]

I wonder which one of those three will make the fatal mistake that leads to the defeat against West Ham on Saturday?

[tcj_jones]

Can Rovers not give Todd a season long ban, then we might be a little bit more consistant.

365174[/snapback]

You're a pillock.

I don't even think that Todd has played particularly badly this season. He stupidly got sent off for headbutting reid, but other than that he hasn't really done an awful lot wrong. I think he has been caught for pace a couple of times, but against the likes of Henry, that is hardly a humiliation.

[waggy]

todd did not get sent off against spurs

[tcj_jones]

Whoops, you're right, but you get my point.

[philipl]

Todd played exceptionally well for two seasons. This season he's not been as good and had a nightmare game at Upton Park. Plus, whilst the Everton handball comes into the professional category and very unlucky that there was a linesman who was willing/wanted to make a fuss, the headbut against Spurs was just plain stupid.

As modes98 has said, play the incident in slomo and it looks bad- the guys at Soho Square will tend towards supporting the ref (especially when its a player with Todd's previous)- and that slomo is all they need to uphold the decision.

Todd has made himself into a very decent old fashioned centre half. Zurab, when he is on his game offers more just as Todd, when he's on his game, offers more than Amo and The Axe at centre half.

Edited December 6, 2005 by philipl

[Tony Diamond Inc]

I'm with Den on this one. Todd was our best defender until the sending off on Saturday.

Why is no one screaming to have Nelsen dropped? It could quite easily be argued he was at fault for the first goal (he cost us big time ).

This board has some very decent, and interesting contributors, but in the interests of diversity, it also contains some fickle footballing dunces

[LDRover]

Yep,I'm one of Nelsen's biggest fans but I'm not blind to the fact he had a shocker on Saturday, especially first half.

For the first time I can remember he seemed to shy away from the physical battle with Beattie and to let the ball bounce instead of meeting it on the full is a real schoolboy error.

[JAL]

I did say that Nelsen, Gray and Friedel have all had their cards marked for some poor defending in recent weeks and Nelsen should take the lions share of the blame for Evertons first goal.

My criticism for Andy Todd is all based on the fact that so far this season Zurab has looked a far better player than Todd and he (Zurab) hasnt gone around headbutting opponents or accidentally elbowing them. From talking about accidentally elbowing we now find we are talking about accidental handball with the same player what grey area will we be discussing next in the Andy Todd saga.

The poor negative publicity that Rovers receive nationally isnt helped in anyway by having players like Savage and Andy Todd in Rovers colours who only court the negative side of Rovers football which i think is highly unfair unfair on the rest of the team and club.

[Yorick]

Wasn't Zurab mainly responsible for giving a goal away at Charlton? Or does it not matter if we end up winning?

[BRFC4EVA]

Wasn't Zurab mainly responsible for giving a goal away at Charlton?  Or does it not matter if we end up winning?

365368[/snapback]

He was playing out of position at right back which is why the error doesnt count when discussing his ability at centre back.

[Yorick]

He was playing out of position at right back which is why the error doesnt count when discussing his ability at centre back. 

365399[/snapback]

He was on the pitch wasn't he? I'd only accept that if he had been left back at the time. As in left back on the bench.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

He was playing out of position at right back which is why the error doesnt count when discussing his ability at centre back. 

365399[/snapback]

What a terrible excuse! My defence of Andy Todd then is , he was the only defender with the positional sense to spot the danger.

If it hadn't been for our magnificent attacking play in the final 15 minutes, Zurab 'would have cost us big time'!

Sorry, have to go now... it's playtime!

[BRFC4EVA]

What a terrible excuse! My defence of Andy Todd then is , he was the only defender with the positional sense to spot the danger.

If it hadn't been for our magnificent attacking play in the final 15 minutes, Zurab 'would have cost us big time'!

Sorry, have to go now... it's playtime!

365523[/snapback]

I dont see it as a poor excuse. When people get played out of place, they make mistakes. Surely you would have remembered that frightful day against wba on the opening day of last season when Souness, trying to make up for the lack of left footers in the team the previous yr, put about 6 in the team that saturday! It would be hard to critize Zurab that badly, as it aint his best position.

[Yorick]

I dont see it as a poor excuse. When people get played out of place, they make mistakes. Surely you would have remembered that frightful day against wba on the opening day of last season when Souness, trying to make up for the lack of left footers in the team the previous yr, put about 6 in the team that saturday! It would be hard to critize Zurab that badly, as it aint his best position.

365556[/snapback]

Sorry BRFC4eva I misinterpreted your earlier post. I thought you were joking! Now that I realise that you were not joking i'm even more flabbergasted by your defence of Zurabs mistake.

[JAL]

Wasn't Zurab mainly responsible for giving a goal away at Charlton?  Or does it not matter if we end up winning?

365368[/snapback]

Yes he was, but i thought Savage should come in for some criticism for that second goal aswell at Charlton.

Also didnt Zurab play a telling forward pass inside Charltons half which led to one of the comeback goals at Charlton.

[Scotty]

Yes he was, but i thought Savage should come in for some criticism for that second goal aswell at Charlton.

Also didnt Zurab play a telling forward pass inside Charltons half which led to one of the comeback goals at Charlton.

365616[/snapback]

The pass to Savage was way short and gave him no chance. By all means slag Savage when he deserves it but lets not make up reasons eh?

[MCMC1875]

In 2 cups & a progressive team - lets not get too critical chaps eh?

[BRFC4EVA]

Sorry BRFC4eva I misinterpreted your earlier post.  I thought you were joking!  Now that I realise that you were not  joking i'm even more flabbergasted by your defence of Zurabs mistake.

365558[/snapback]

Look, im not saying it wasnt a dreadful mistake and im not trying to make an excuse for the actual mistake itself. However, i honestly dont see how an error whilst playing right back has got anything to do with his level of performance and competence at centre back!

Edited December 8, 2005 by BRFC4EVA

[Yorick]

Look, im not saying it wasnt a dreadful mistake and im not trying to make an excuse for the actual mistake itself. However, i honestly dont see how an error whilst playing right back has got anything to do with his level of performance and competence at centre back!

365630[/snapback]

Not clearing the ball but rather giving it away to an opponant in a dangerous position is nothing to do with the centre-half position is it not brfc4eva? imo it's their first duty.

Many times in the course of a game when picked at chalf Zurab will find himself pulled over to that rb position so he knows as well as anyone how to play there. I know everybody can make mistakes and I am not criticising him for making one but whether he was picked at left back, centre half or centre forward I'm sure Zurab held his hand up and apologised for the goal in the dressing room afterwards.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Yorick

[JAL]

Sure everyone makes mistakes on the pitch in a game of football .......but its the speed of recovering from a mistake that judges a players fate.

Colin Hendry in the good old days of the second division used to allow the opposition a couple of goals and then pop up at the other end to score a few himself (Leicester City at home 3-3 springs to mind).

Savage was substituted at Charlton and the other players made a more telling contribution which resulted in a magnificant win.

Savage to me, contributes little to the attacking threat of the team which to me is as important as his defensive duties are, this is why i criticise him.

Todds in the same boat as Savage he misses too many chances from corners to show a positive contribution to the Rovers cause and he cant play a telling forward pass like say Lucas or Zurab can.

[philipl]

Zura simply under hit a 20 yard pass directed at Savage who stood and waited for it not knowing that Murphy was running towards him and marginally got ahead and collected the ball. Murphy then ran diagnoally at the Rovers' defence riding two tackles (including Zura) before beating Friedel.

It was not the sort of horror mistake Amo made in one or two games for us nor was he as hopelessly out of position as Todd was for two out of the three goals at West Ham (nobody except Emo gets the blame for the third at Upton Park with his fancy back heel dink to Sherringham).

Todd good, Zura better and Zura has a one game start on Saturday to prove it. If he funks it, Todd will be back at Fulham although I'd far rather have the more mobile Zura playing at the Cottage as Fulham's threat comes from the speed of breaking players like Malbranque.

[JAL]

Zura simply under hit a 20 yard pass directed at Savage who stood and waited for it not knowing that Murphy was running towards him and marginally got ahead and collected the ball. Murphy then ran diagnoally at the Rovers' defence riding two tackles (including Zura) before beating Friedel.

It was not the sort of horror mistake Amo made in one or two games for us nor was he as hopelessly out of position as Todd was for two out of the three goals at West Ham (nobody except Emo gets the blame for the third at Upton Park with his fancy back heel dink to Sherringham).

Todd good, Zura better and Zura has a one game start on Saturday to prove it. If he funks it, Todd will be back at Fulham although I'd far rather have the more mobile Zura playing at the Cottage as Fulham's threat comes from the speed of breaking players like Malbranque.

365672[/snapback]

Yes, i'm more critical of Zurab's poor attempted tackle on Murphy than the pass to Savage but Zurabs skill on the ball is top quality so hopefully the Charlton incident wont be repeated.

Come staurday Nelsen and Zurab are up against two very fast determined young men in Zamora and Harewood whose pace i thought frightened and unsettled Todd at West Ham, so how will our two cope, its going to be a very interesting game ......cant wait.

[Yorick]

Come staurday Nelsen and Zurab are up against two very fast determined young men in Zamora and Harewood whose pace i thought frightened and unsettled Todd at West Ham, so how will our two cope, its going to be a very interesting game ......cant wait.

365676[/snapback]

I think having to do his own job and look after the axe at centre half unsettled Todd more than anything the opposition did. Without Bellamy and although it will be unpopular a starting 4-5-1 formation tomorrow would serve us well against West Ham. Their most influential player Sheringham plays in the hole behind the striker so keeping him quiet in the opening stages until he tires is priority. We also looked far more comfortable when we switched to that system at their place. Unfortunately the damage had mostly been done until the late abberations of Emerton and Dickov put the tin hat on it.

I'd save 4-4-2 and Tugay for the second half.

[Blue blood]

Todds in the same boat as Savage he misses too many chances from corners to show a positive contribution to the Rovers cause and he cant play a telling forward pass like say Lucas or Zurab can.

Sure Todd's not having the best of seasons but he doesn't deserve all the slating he's getting. Todd for the most part is a solid dependable defender, his job is to defend - not score corners and all the other optional extras which might be nice. Amo has far more to his game in terms of attacking threats corners and free kicks (although the latter threat is usually to those behind the goal) but is he a better defender? No chance, because he can't defend and makes too many mistakes which cost goals. Incidently I don't think Todd's distribution is bad, in fact last season I can remember being rather impressed by it at times.

As for Savage, again he's there to disrupt the play and protect the back 4. It doesn't matter how many you score if you conceed more goals you loose simple as. The defensive aspect of the game is equally important and Savage provides us with that vital protectionist role. Wenger doesn't drop Gilberto for not contributing to the attack for example, because all good teams need someone to protect the defence.