[Archived] Rovers 2 Sunderland 0

[tonygreenbank]

To compare Koumas to Tugay is totally laughable. Rovers played better at Everton when he came on as Tugs is still able to see and play an incisive pass when the situation demands it. What amazed me last night was his workrate and closing down the opposition. The club clearly are trying to persuade him to stay for one more season. Obviously time will catch up but if he can help to groom his successor in the next 12 months I will be happy.

What players can fill his position? Dunny is the obvious choice but whether he can hack it now is open to question. I do not envy the club in their search because Tugay is a one-off. If Robson doesnt fancy Koumas and Hughesy knows him well from his Wales days then I dont saee that he is the answer.

[tcj_jones]

I'm surprised to hear people criticising Tugay. I wasn't at the match, but the Sky Sports player ratings give him a 9/10 and comment that he "ran the show" ?...

In any case, his inconsistency is really hampering our form as, on his day, he is such a key player for us.

Edited February 16, 2006 by tcj_jones

[G Somerset Rover]

lets see how Tugs will compare when the arse visit Ewood Saturday week.

Does anyone see him winning a battle with the lies of Pires, Lyngberg, Flamini, Fabregas and the Brazilian Gilberto, not to mention Bergkamp ? I cant and dont see anyway he can even compete with that little lot.

384700[/snapback]

In seasons past he may not have (except ewood 2-0 maybe), when they've had the likes of Vieira winning every midfield battle. This season they've been appaling away from home. They won't like coming to places like Ewood Park. It should be Savage/Reid/Tugay licking their lips for this game.

[92er]

I thought the performance last night was dire-even though someone I spoke to said the performance at Everton was even worse.

Credit to Sunderland who worked hard all the way through the match. They are, however, an incredibly poor team. And yet they produced around 4 good goal situations which a better team could have scored from:if Owen had played for them it could have been a repeat of the Newcastle home match. The defence were not the reason Sunderland did not score. The defence was remarkably poor.

Reid cannot play right wing. He has not the skill to play there and he looked very uncomfortable. Again. If he has a role it has to be in centre midfield.

Which brings us to the centre midfield. I think Tugay is 1 of the 2 creative players on the staff. If he loses the ball when he plays deep, it is arguable his best role is playing further up field where he can have a bigger effect on the attacking part of the team and where it is not so crucial if he loses the ball. I am surprised no-one has criticised Savage. I thought he was awful and I can't see any quality he brings to the team. The fact that Hughes bought him, and arguably overpaid for him, means we are stuck with playing him regularly.Our view of him was that he can't pass, he has no ball control, he can't head, he can't tackle, he is not scoring goals but he likes running. We watched him run and run and run and run.He didn't do any of the things he can't do- he just ran alongside people who should have been tackled . It was like he was playing tag and he did not want to be on any more.

Pedersen was clearly not fit. I don't think Bellamy was fit-when he is fit he is absolutely superb for us. But he did not look 100% last night.Pongolle made a real classy start-he showed good ball control, did 2/3 good passes early on but then faded.The question is whether he will be a goal scorer for us.

It certainly was not the kind of match that will encourage the crowds to come back.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Finally, someone said it!!!

Everyone seems to have forgotten how good we were under Souness for a couple of years! We are no where near reaching that level under Hughes(not his fault, we just have average players). We played teams like Arsenal,Man Yoo,Celtic and Chelsea off the park in certain games against them. We also used to create so many chances every game(even in his last full season) now we are lucky to create 2 a game.

The only reason why we are 7th is because the Premier League is so poor this season.

384602[/snapback]

Ok - and the flair in that team was built around home grown talent, and a certain Mr Jansen who had been bought previously. I beleive that our good defence at the time was more due to the experience of Berg and Short than anything that the coaching staff did.

I am not knocking Souey - he did a good job for us. But I can't help wonder - give Hughes players like Duff, Dunn and Jansen - I would expect us to be looking to get into the top four, let alone the top six.

I also have distinct memories of some very poor games - that were only brought to live by a certain Mr Duff - who in the second half of the season was as good as any winger I have ever seen at Ewood (either home or away). Never has Ewood seen such left wing play since the days of Noel

[Florida Rover]

Hey Waggy,

Just watching a replay of the game and at half time they showed a fellow with his son siting to the left of him that looked alot like you and your lad based on the picture in your signature.Were you there wearing a Rover home top and yourlad have on a black windbreaker with the crest on it?(Some female sat behind wearing a pink zippered jacket with a grey scarf on.)If that was you it is a crystal clear shot an maybe you can get a copy of it if they replay the match there.If that isn't you then,Nevermind as you were

Florida Rover

[joey_big_nose]

Ok - and the flair in that team was built around home grown talent, and a certain Mr Jansen who had been bought previously. I beleive that our good defence at the time was more due to the experience of Berg and Short than anything that the coaching staff did.

384781[/snapback]

Perhaps Peter, Bentley and Pedersen will form the vanguard of a new era. While I don't suggest any of them are as good as Duff, he was a real one in a thousand find, they are all young and undoubtably talented and (crucially!) not hamstrung (yet!).

[RovertheHill]

Does anyone see him winning a battle with the lies of Pires, Lyngberg, Flamini, Fabregas and the Brazilian Gilberto, not to mention Bergkamp ? I cant and dont see anyway he can even compete with that little lot.

384700[/snapback]

Yes, I do actually. In fact the central midfield of Flamini and Fabregas, whilst young and undoubtedly talented, are suffering from the crisis of confidence that the rest of Arse are suffering. They lack a real leader, it's easy to get under their skin (Sav!) and I can see Tugay competing well. Pires and Freddie are wide players so he probably won't have to, and let's be frank - they disappear too when the muck and bullets are flying.

Knowing my luck though they'll probably roast us now...

[philipl]

An insight into the sad condition known as being a Sunderland fan.

[greggyk]

Agreed we played very well against those sides and as far as I can recall lost on nearly every occassion. I went to Celtic and left the ground very, very proud of the team but we lost.....twice.

Of those you mention I think we beat Arsenal once in the league, 2-1 at Highbury? Anybody? and 4-1 in the Worthy Cup, but that was their reserves.

This season we've beaten Utd twice, drawn one, lost one. Which would you rather have?

The major reason for dropping crowds, and you can dress it up anyway you want with every other reason under the sun, is two seasons of "disappointing" results under Souness. Whatever else GS did for us in the last two seasons we won five games each at home and that had a massive impact on the club and attendances. Hughesy is doing great things but it will take a lot, lot more to win back those who have stopped coming. Beating Utd was two steps forward, losing at Everton and WBA was two steps back.

384665[/snapback]

first- We hammered Arsenal 2-0 at Ewood in the League while they were top of the league with a few games to go. We also beat Chelsea away the season they finished 4th.

And, you seriously STILL believe the reason why people dont bother coming anymore is because of what happened in the last 2 seasons. See, i would have bought that at first but despite some fantastic wins this seasons the locals still feel that have something better to do than watch Rovers. And you say "Beating Utd was two steps forward, losing at Everton and WBA was two steps back." Well we aint Chelsea! It will be like that for years and has been in the past. The stay aways will be 'away' for years to come if thats true

[Rovermatt]

According to the Sunderland fan in Philip's link:

Like almost all Premiership teams however, Blackburn are crap...

Cheeky sh*t. Crap enough to dispense with your dreary lot mind.

[beaney]

rovers till i die yay rovers yay rovers 4 Uroup

[Eddie]

According to the Sunderland fan in Philip's link:

Cheeky sh*t. Crap enough to dispense with your dreary lot mind.

384838[/snapback]

I'm not sure he was being entirely serious.

[thenodrog]

not bloody lily [i can run for miles ]savage like toogs has to suffer.i am still waiting to know what savage brings to our team

384707[/snapback]

Now I know that we signed Nelson and Axe at the same time and that we have had the benefits of Bellamy on occasion as well as the more dubious skills of Kuqi and Bentley since summer but this is pretty impressive..........

Record in all comps since Savage signed.......W24 D12 L17.

7th in Prem Div and SF's of 2 major cups. (btw compare this with the performance of Brum in the same period waggy and give us all your thoughts on them).

Sav's best quality is not his ability / vision on the ball (although he set Bentley up for a peach v MU) but is in reading the game and squeezing the pitch and giving the opposition so little time on the ball when they are in possession. Maybe not all that much to some people but it certainly seems a difficult quality to find in others and is a quality that the rest of his teammates will certainly applaud.

Your 1 man campaign against one of our more influential players and one whom Hughes obviously rates very highly is in danger of becoming churlish.

Sav is no Zidane thats for sure waggy but then again you are no Henry Winter are you?

Edited February 17, 2006 by thenodrog

[blue phil]

The post by Roverite just cannot go unchallenged.

Tugay was and indeed still is a class act. To mention Koumas as a replacement is a joke. My advice to anyone who has the least interest in BRFC is to get down to Ewood whenever you can for the rest of this season because if he dosen't sign a new deal, it will be a long time before you see a player of that high calibre playing in a blue and white halved shirt.

No forward passes from Tugay eh? Just replay the timing of that pass he made to Reid in the first half.

Can you remeber any of our other midfielders playing a ball forward?

Who is the player who makes himself available for the ball in virtually every part of the field?

Who do the other players choose to pass the ball to when they are in tight situations?

Stop complaining and start appreciating while you still can.

384742[/snapback]

Good summation of the role Tugay plays in the team . The only criticism I can make of one of the 3 or so finest players we have had in the prem is that he doesn't move upfield more often where his superb vision and incisive passing could be perhaps even more effective.

The man is a joy to behold when he is on form , creating space out of nothing and relieving the pressure on the inferior beings alongside him who , along with the forwards , really should be making more runs to accomodate his vision . Yep I'd deffo like to see him play in front of the water carriers rather than behind where , it has to be said , his mistakes can be costly .

Nevertheless , he is always likely to create something - his pass to Peter showed that on Wednesday - and if fit would always be first on the teamsheet for me

[thenodrog]

- and if fit would always be first on the teamsheet for me 

384968[/snapback]

Me too....... but conversely always the first to be subbed if the opposition have set themselves up to stop him playing.

Tugay has superb and sublime abilities that make the admission money seem cheap sometimes. Abilities that we have not seen the likes of since Bryan Douglas graced the park. Duffer came close but not just close enough. Problem with Toogs that was not a problem with the other two is that his ability is wasted by being too far from the opponants goal. Also if the opposition set out to bully and man mark him and not allow him time on the ball he may as well come off after 15 minutes.

Edited February 17, 2006 by thenodrog

[philipl]

Me too....... but conversely always the first to be subbed if the opposition have set themselves up to stop him playing.

Tugay has superb and sublime abilities that make the admission money seem cheap sometimes.  Abilities that we have not seen the likes of since Bryan Douglas graced the park.  Duffer came close but not just close enough.  Problem with Toogs that was not a problem with the other two is that his ability is wasted by being too far from the opponants goal.  Also if the opposition set out to bully and man mark him and not allow him time on the ball he may as well come off after 15 minutes.

384984[/snapback]

I completely agree with both of you about our Turkish genius.

[joey_big_nose]

But there is a reason that Toogs sits deep- it is how he has always played the game!

He did the same for Turkey. He likes to get the ball deep and search out the long pass. He is not interested it getting forward- the couple of times he did against Suderland were a real rarity.

Besides, I am not really sure he would really be effective as a playmaker behind the strikers - mainly because I have the suspicion that if he would excel in that position one of the various managers he has had would of put him there! Maybe someone who is familiar with his time at Galatasary could enlighten me, but I don't think it has ever happend.

Also, for a short while (6 games?) two seasons ago we played a diamond with Tugay at the top and although we got some great results that kept us up, I don't remember the Turk shining.

The other big problem is that if we do stick him behind the strikers the other three mids will have to play narrower and we will lose width and Savage will have to be disiplined and not play his closing game, which as TND says, is his game.

To summerise, "not going to happen"

Edited February 17, 2006 by joey_big_nose

[92er]

But there is a reason that Toogs sits deep- it is how he has always played the game!

He did the same for Turkey. He likes to get the ball deep and search out the long pass. He is not interested it getting forward- the couple of times he did against Suderland were a real rarity.

Besides, I am not really sure he would really be effective as a playmaker behind the strikers - mainly because I have the suspicion that if he would excel in that position one of the various managers he has had would of put him there! Maybe someone who is familiar with his time at Galatasary could enlighten me, but I don't think it has ever happend.

Also, for a short while (6 games?) two seasons ago we played a diamond with Tugay at the top and although we got some great results that kept us up, I don't remember the Turk shining.

385026[/snapback]

I thought he was brilliant. It was a dour set-up, with the inly skill coming from Tugay and Cole.

He did some superb passing and could not lose the ball in crucial areas.

[joey_big_nose]

I thought he was brilliant. It was a dour set-up, with the inly skill coming from Tugay and Cole.

He did some superb passing and could not lose the ball in crucial areas.

385029[/snapback]

I thought he was neat and tidy and played some great balls as usual but not fundamentally any more effective than he was in his normal position.

I only saw three games though, out of those six or so (one was at Fulham where he played that super pass from wide on the left for Cole to score the first of a 4-3 victory).

[Rover4ever]

Tugay plays more like a quarterback in American football than like a creative midfielder in the "hole".

[thenodrog]

But there is a reason that Toogs sits deep- it is how he has always played the game!

He did the same for Turkey. He likes to get the ball deep and search out the long pass. He is not interested it getting forward- the couple of times he did against Suderland were a real rarity.

Besides, I am not really sure he would really be effective as a playmaker behind the strikers -

385026[/snapback]

Correct JBN. Despite having more than enough skill he is not physical enough or fast enough to play there. So he has to play deep midfield where his skill is often deemed as wasted. And that in a nutshell is why he plies his trade for Blackburn Rovers FC..... and indeed why we are having this debate.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Tugay has been so good for us it makes me want to cry thinking that he'll be on his way out some time soon. And to think he was let go by Rangers to make way for wee Barry.

[thenodrog]

I completely agree with both of you about our Turkish genius. 

384988[/snapback]

Oooo err! I think thats one of Nostradamus' prophesies for Armaggedon!

Fish will boil in the sea....... Children will betray their parents.........the poles will be reversed.......massive flame will cover the sun in the north .....the east will come to dominate the west........great floods............... and Jim will agree with drog and BluePhil.

Not many to go now before Judgement Day!

[John]

all this pointless deabte folks

Tugay is real class - if you want to win matches you play him, then again he does give the ball away in dangerous areas which leads to goals but that is his style of play.

Overall, we need him because he is usually the difference between opening up defences and as I said he wins us matches. The day he leaves will be the day we lose a truly world class player.